Nurses with attitude
I'm currently working in a small DGH as an FY1. Having just completed a set of TABS recently for the eportfolio it suddenly occured to me as to why no nurses are required to complete a set of TABS too? I have unfortunately had encounters with a few nurses in my hospital who have serious attitude issues with doctors especially the juniors. This includes being bossy, rude, belittling and at times exhibit bullying behaviours. Surely as much as the GMC is worried about doctors having behavioral issues the Nursing council should do too with regards to the nurses?
Personally I find these behaviours incredibly upsetting and hard to deal with especially when it occurs on a post-take day when you're just so busy to get everything done and it seems someone is just out there to make life even more difficult for you. In the past doctors used to show less respect to nurses than they deserved but it almost feels like the tables have turned and gone a bit too extreme to the other end these days.
Fellow FY1s, what do you think? Is it just the DGH that I work in?
Personally I find these behaviours incredibly upsetting and hard to deal with especially when it occurs on a post-take day when you're just so busy to get everything done and it seems someone is just out there to make life even more difficult for you. In the past doctors used to show less respect to nurses than they deserved but it almost feels like the tables have turned and gone a bit too extreme to the other end these days.
Fellow FY1s, what do you think? Is it just the DGH that I work in?
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Original post by Da CorrupteD KiD
I'm currently working in a small DGH as an FY1. Having just completed a set of TABS recently for the eportfolio it suddenly occured to me as to why no nurses are required to complete a set of TABS too? I have unfortunately had encounters with a few nurses in my hospital who have serious attitude issues with doctors especially the juniors. This includes being bossy, rude, belittling and at times exhibit bullying behaviours. Surely as much as the GMC is worried about doctors having behavioral issues the Nursing council should do too with regards to the nurses?
Personally I find these behaviours incredibly upsetting and hard to deal with especially when it occurs on a post-take day when you're just so busy to get everything done and it seems someone is just out there to make life even more difficult for you. In the past doctors used to show less respect to nurses than they deserved but it almost feels like the tables have turned and gone a bit too extreme to the other end these days.
Fellow FY1s, what do you think? Is it just the DGH that I work in?
Personally I find these behaviours incredibly upsetting and hard to deal with especially when it occurs on a post-take day when you're just so busy to get everything done and it seems someone is just out there to make life even more difficult for you. In the past doctors used to show less respect to nurses than they deserved but it almost feels like the tables have turned and gone a bit too extreme to the other end these days.
Fellow FY1s, what do you think? Is it just the DGH that I work in?
I agree entirely with everything that you have said. I think it stems from an attempt across the NHS to 'bring everyone down to the same level' ( a good idea for patient safety) but this has translated into everyone has the right to challenge what a doctor says. I had an argument with a spotty-faced theatre orderly who kept trying to tell me that I had enough oxygen in my anaesthetic machine backup cylinder (yes, for about 5 minutes...) when I asked him to change it as it was on the red.
It is difficult as an FY1 to feel like you have any authority. It doesn't help that most seniors aren't around to support you and even they reinforce the idea that you are 'just an F1'. Never forget that you are a registered medical practitioner, a fully qualified doctor. If you get some attitude or bull**** from a nurse, just give it back to them in spadefuls. In my experience, it is down to one of two things. The first being that ward nurses never rotate. They have their own little clique that they have developed over the years, some having never moved off that ward from the day they became a nurse. You come in there and start telling them what to do and they will have their feathers ruffled. Tough ****, is what I think. They need to learn to deal with rotating junior doctors.
Secondly, that attitude comes from laziness.
'Please hang up some Tazocin and do half-hourly obs on this man with septic shock.'
'Really? You really think this guy is septic? Are you sure? I don't think so...' etc etc. Just be firm, polite and then walk off.
Different people have different ways of dealing with this. Some people are really friendly, bring in cakes etc but I don't think this works. It is work at the end of the day and people will be in no great hurry to back you up. After all, they know you are going in a few months. I would say: just be firm, non-confrontational and keep a cool head. It isn't even worth your effort to cause a fuss with these sorts of people.
As a nurse (and now med student) I can see it from both sides.
There are most definitely nurses so stuck in their way, or think they know it all that they are impossible to work with. There are lazy ones, rude ones but equally this can be said of some doctors (junior or otherwise).
I generally try to be nice to everyone I work with, unless I think they are messing up or not listening and then I will be firmer (but there are ways and means and I try never to be rude about it). Even before pursuing medicine I tried to empathise with junior doctors and the $hitty time they have. I think a lot of newer (and possibly younger) nurses tend to have a better attitude towards doctors and are more prepared to work cooperatively.
That said there is no excuse for bullying behaviour, rudeness or being uncooperative. We are there for the benefit of the patient and have to work together. If you feel a patient needs something, explain it to the nurse and if they don't cooperate be firmer and tell them to sort their attitude.
I hope you find some nice nurses soon, we aren't all like that!!
There are most definitely nurses so stuck in their way, or think they know it all that they are impossible to work with. There are lazy ones, rude ones but equally this can be said of some doctors (junior or otherwise).
I generally try to be nice to everyone I work with, unless I think they are messing up or not listening and then I will be firmer (but there are ways and means and I try never to be rude about it). Even before pursuing medicine I tried to empathise with junior doctors and the $hitty time they have. I think a lot of newer (and possibly younger) nurses tend to have a better attitude towards doctors and are more prepared to work cooperatively.
That said there is no excuse for bullying behaviour, rudeness or being uncooperative. We are there for the benefit of the patient and have to work together. If you feel a patient needs something, explain it to the nurse and if they don't cooperate be firmer and tell them to sort their attitude.
I hope you find some nice nurses soon, we aren't all like that!!
I am finding this a lot at the moment, not with nurses but with midwives. Doing neonates, I spend a lot of time on labour ward and the postnatal wards. There are some lovely helpful midwives, but there are also a significant number at the moment that make my postnatal days in particular really quite miserable. Ok, I don't expect you to remember my name, even though I introduce myself to you by name each time I speak to you. But a smile / acknowledgement would go a long way, especially when I try to talk to you / engage with you and update you on what I've done for baby, who incidentally is as much your patient as mum is. Yes, I know all you want me to do is agree to take the baby to NNU so that you don't have all the obs and care to do, but I'm not going to. I am fed up of being called "The Paed". I know the doctor-midwife thing is such a stereotype, but it's certainly true where I work at the moment, and I wish it wasn't.
Conversely, my neonatal unit nurses at the moment are lovely, really helpful, REALLY know their stuff, and are happy and willing to impart wisdom and teach me stuff, and are generally a really good team.
Conversely, my neonatal unit nurses at the moment are lovely, really helpful, REALLY know their stuff, and are happy and willing to impart wisdom and teach me stuff, and are generally a really good team.
Original post by Da CorrupteD KiD
I'm currently working in a small DGH as an FY1. Having just completed a set of TABS recently for the eportfolio it suddenly occured to me as to why no nurses are required to complete a set of TABS too? I have unfortunately had encounters with a few nurses in my hospital who have serious attitude issues with doctors especially the juniors. This includes being bossy, rude, belittling and at times exhibit bullying behaviours. Surely as much as the GMC is worried about doctors having behavioral issues the Nursing council should do too with regards to the nurses?
Personally I find these behaviours incredibly upsetting and hard to deal with especially when it occurs on a post-take day when you're just so busy to get everything done and it seems someone is just out there to make life even more difficult for you. In the past doctors used to show less respect to nurses than they deserved but it almost feels like the tables have turned and gone a bit too extreme to the other end these days.
Fellow FY1s, what do you think? Is it just the DGH that I work in?
Personally I find these behaviours incredibly upsetting and hard to deal with especially when it occurs on a post-take day when you're just so busy to get everything done and it seems someone is just out there to make life even more difficult for you. In the past doctors used to show less respect to nurses than they deserved but it almost feels like the tables have turned and gone a bit too extreme to the other end these days.
Fellow FY1s, what do you think? Is it just the DGH that I work in?
No, it's not just you or your hospital. But I think it does get better. I'm not sure if I've got better at handling nurses, or if I now work mainly in areas (ICU and theatres) which tend to attract better nurses/less attitude, but I've certainly found things have got easier over the years.
Being the ward cover FY1 is probably the worst job ever for this sort of thing. Nurses have no concept of the number of different wards you have to cover, and many will actually assume that if you're not on their ward, you are in the mess with your feet up. Add to that the rotational nature of our jobs vs the relatively static one of theirs, and it's easy to imagine that we all just blur into one amorphous mass of juniors who come and go while they may stay on the same ward for years or even decades, so everything any junior doctor has done wrong before you will be attributed to you as well. They are very sensitive to any whiff of what might be construed as arrogance, and it is VERY difficult (IMO especially as a female with mostly female nurses/midwives) to get the right balance of confidence in your abilities and enough assertiveness to get stuff done without tipping into "cocky" territory.
I mostly go down the super-nice and friendly route. I think it may help that I'm mostly in scrubs and *ahem* a bit fat and not that pretty, so I'm not perhaps as threatening as some female docs who have perfect make-up and are dressed to the nines. On the other hand I am white and have a fairly posh accent, which I'm sure counted against me with some nurses and patients when I worked in South London. I phrase a lot of requests as "Can you help me with this?" or "Do you think we should?" rather than telling them what to do. I may occasionally feign being a bit more ditzy than I really am in order to enlist help in finding stuff/learning how a particular dept/unit actually works. I really try to make use of their experience in having been there a lot longer than me and sometimes having more experience with a specific type of patient (I started Neuro ICU this week and although I was a reasonably competent ICU SHO, I have never worked in a neurosurgical unit or been the solo SpR on at night before).
This doesn't mean that I'm a pushover - I still give clear instructions and follow things up if they aren't done. And there are still some out there who I really struggle with. But most of the time I think I get things done when they need doing.
I was actually really pleasantly surprised with how well I got on with the midwives in my last obstetric placement - as junior.doctor says, the doctor/midwife clash is the stuff of legends! I think that departmental attitude does make a big difference - that particular delivery suite had a lot of high risk medical patients, and overall was far less anti-doctor/intervention than anywhere else I've worked. So I may be talking rubbish, and may find that the next time I'm on labour ward elsewhere I'm just getting "Epidural, room 4" calls at 3am!
(edited 9 years ago)
As a non medical student, some doctors are horrible too TBF. I was screened for a clinical trial this spring and the person who saw me was a total bully.
Original post by Morrisseya
As a non medical student, some doctors are horrible too TBF. I was screened for a clinical trial this spring and the person who saw me was a total bully.
Yes, there are doctors out there who are horrible - though there are far more who are nervous, stressed and overwhelmed, who have a one-off snap at another member of staff which marks them forever in that particular job. And some branches of medicine have a bullying culture almost entrenched. But that's not what this thread is about.
Original post by Helenia
Yes, there are doctors out there who are horrible - though there are far more who are nervous, stressed and overwhelmed, who have a one-off snap at another member of staff which marks them forever in that particular job. And some branches of medicine have a bullying culture almost entrenched. But that's not what this thread is about.
Didn't mean to derail the thread, though it didn't seem like a one off thing to me and I'm not a member of staff.
Could nurses possibly be behaving like this because they've encountered doctors who act like this, though? (E.g. an experienced doctor treating them like this, who then annoys them and they end up bullying a junior). That was what I meant to get at. Again as an outsider, one often hears about a bullying culture in the NHS, from what sounds like some nasty members of all parties
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Morrisseya
Didn't mean to derail the thread, though it didn't seem like a one off thing to me and I'm not a member of staff.
Could nurses possibly be behaving like this because they've encountered doctors who act like this, though? (E.g. an experienced doctor treating them like this, who then annoys them and they end up bullying a junior). That was what I meant to get at. Again as an outsider, one often hears about a bullying culture in the NHS, from what sounds like some nasty members of all parties
Could nurses possibly be behaving like this because they've encountered doctors who act like this, though? (E.g. an experienced doctor treating them like this, who then annoys them and they end up bullying a junior). That was what I meant to get at. Again as an outsider, one often hears about a bullying culture in the NHS, from what sounds like some nasty members of all parties
Oh, I'm quite sure some of the attitude problems that junior docs encounter are because their predecessors have been rude. The trouble with medicine is that junior doctors change jobs every 3-6 months so have to get to know a whole new bunch of people each time. Meanwhile nurses, who often stay in the same ward or department for years, have to put up with getting a new batch of doctors who don't know anyone or where anything is, which is understandably frustrating. It's easy to imagine that a few bad experiences along the way might tarnish their views of doctors and make them less accommodating to future junior docs. It's a vicious cycle though - if they're rude/unhelpful then the doctors are more likely to get stressed and snap back, so they'll become more entrenched in the idea that doctors are all cocky bastards (which honestly we're not!)
Most of my experiences in the NHS have been fairly good and I've never been actively bullied. It's not all bad! Shame that the doctor you saw was not nice.
a lot of the problems between junior Doctors and Nurses is down to the attitude displayed by a significant number of Foundation Doctors , over their skill / accountability /utility - Nurses carry the can for what goes on on the ards, Foundation doctors are teflon coated unless they are deliberately malicious in their actions or omissions unless they get caught ignoring their bleep by sleeping or shagging
99% of the requests to on-call juniors to prescribe are down to one of two things
1. your day time colleague failed to do their work - whether that's [prescribing to a need or by failing to prescribe appropriate PRNs / not completing symptomatic relief.
FOR PITIIES SAKES KIDS DO THIS AS A MATTER OF ROUTINE !
2. the trust will not pay for the experienced (senior) staff Nurses to codify their knowledge and get the Masters' level prescriber qualification - especially as it is likely to trigger a re-grading exercise - and many trusts seem to have a big problem with the idea that Senior Staff Nurses should exist and be in Band 6 with practitioner skills. thid can also tip over into acknowledging other skills such as ECG interpretation where they trust will not 'allow' it for fear of having to actually pay the Nursing staff what they are worth .
it is also important to note that the RN will get it in the neck regardless of what they do , if they break the rules and 'prescribe' it;s a world of **** , if they don't bug the hell out of juniors to do work including esclalating it to the reg and consultant in line with the protocol that has been agreed by the trusts Medical director . this is where if Hospital at Night had been properly implemented there really wouldn;t be an issue as ward Nurses would have been supported to get the skills in question and/or there would be 'service' medical posts / non-medical Advanced practitioner posts to cover this service focused set of on call tasks.
99% of the requests to on-call juniors to prescribe are down to one of two things
1. your day time colleague failed to do their work - whether that's [prescribing to a need or by failing to prescribe appropriate PRNs / not completing symptomatic relief.
FOR PITIIES SAKES KIDS DO THIS AS A MATTER OF ROUTINE !
2. the trust will not pay for the experienced (senior) staff Nurses to codify their knowledge and get the Masters' level prescriber qualification - especially as it is likely to trigger a re-grading exercise - and many trusts seem to have a big problem with the idea that Senior Staff Nurses should exist and be in Band 6 with practitioner skills. thid can also tip over into acknowledging other skills such as ECG interpretation where they trust will not 'allow' it for fear of having to actually pay the Nursing staff what they are worth .
it is also important to note that the RN will get it in the neck regardless of what they do , if they break the rules and 'prescribe' it;s a world of **** , if they don't bug the hell out of juniors to do work including esclalating it to the reg and consultant in line with the protocol that has been agreed by the trusts Medical director . this is where if Hospital at Night had been properly implemented there really wouldn;t be an issue as ward Nurses would have been supported to get the skills in question and/or there would be 'service' medical posts / non-medical Advanced practitioner posts to cover this service focused set of on call tasks.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by zippyRN
a lot of the problems between junior Doctors and Nurses is down to the attitude displayed by a significant number of Foundation Doctors , over their skill / accountability /utility - Nurses carry the can for what goes on on the ards, Foundation doctors are teflon coated unless they are deliberately malicious in their actions or omissions unless they get caught ignoring their bleep by sleeping or shagging
99% of the requests to on-call juniors to prescribe are down to one of two things
1. your day time colleague failed to do their work - whether that's [prescribing to a need or by failing to prescribe appropriate PRNs / not completing symptomatic relief.
FOR PITIIES SAKES KIDS DO THIS AS A MATTER OF ROUTINE !
2. the trust will not pay for the experienced (senior) staff Nurses to codify their knowledge and get the Masters' level prescriber qualification - especially as it is likely to trigger a re-grading exercise - and many trusts seem to have a big problem with the idea that Senior Staff Nurses should exist and be in Band 6 with practitioner skills. thid can also tip over into acknowledging other skills such as ECG interpretation where they trust will not 'allow' it for fear of having to actually pay the Nursing staff what they are worth .
it is also important to note that the RN will get it in the neck regardless of what they do , if they break the rules and 'prescribe' it;s a world of **** , if they don't bug the hell out of juniors to do work including esclalating it to the reg and consultant in line with the protocol that has been agreed by the trusts Medical director . this is where if Hospital at Night had been properly implemented there really wouldn;t be an issue as ward Nurses would have been supported to get the skills in question and/or there would be 'service' medical posts / non-medical Advanced practitioner posts to cover this service focused set of on call tasks.
99% of the requests to on-call juniors to prescribe are down to one of two things
1. your day time colleague failed to do their work - whether that's [prescribing to a need or by failing to prescribe appropriate PRNs / not completing symptomatic relief.
FOR PITIIES SAKES KIDS DO THIS AS A MATTER OF ROUTINE !
2. the trust will not pay for the experienced (senior) staff Nurses to codify their knowledge and get the Masters' level prescriber qualification - especially as it is likely to trigger a re-grading exercise - and many trusts seem to have a big problem with the idea that Senior Staff Nurses should exist and be in Band 6 with practitioner skills. thid can also tip over into acknowledging other skills such as ECG interpretation where they trust will not 'allow' it for fear of having to actually pay the Nursing staff what they are worth .
it is also important to note that the RN will get it in the neck regardless of what they do , if they break the rules and 'prescribe' it;s a world of **** , if they don't bug the hell out of juniors to do work including esclalating it to the reg and consultant in line with the protocol that has been agreed by the trusts Medical director . this is where if Hospital at Night had been properly implemented there really wouldn;t be an issue as ward Nurses would have been supported to get the skills in question and/or there would be 'service' medical posts / non-medical Advanced practitioner posts to cover this service focused set of on call tasks.
I'm astounded that after so many years you still have a chip on your shoulder. You could have gone to medical school in this time and sorted it out.
The fact that you have never been actually on call is apparent. 99% of the call workload is prescribing PRNs? Please.
Foundation doctors are Teflon coated and basically useless? Again, what planet are you living on? I have the greatest respect for this batch of doctors who prop up the vast majority of on call rotas. I was on call overnight for surgery receiving for a catchment area of 200,000 people, filtering GP admissions, covering a 150 patient bedbase and expected to go to theatre for emergencies. You have literally no idea what you are talking about.
Sorry to break this to you, but it has nothing to do with Trusts willing to pay for some masters or whatever. Just because you spent a few years doing ward nursing, patient care and giving out medicines does not mean you are eligible to do medical work or having a stab at reading an ECG. And what's all this about nurses breaking the rules and prescribing? It isn't a trivial matter and enclosing it in quotation marks doesn't legitimise it. If I ever found this happening, I would ensure that the nurse who did that would be driven into the ground for impersonating a registered medical practitioner.
There's a very simple solution to all this, which is seen when you brush away your hidden agenda. You fund more training posts for doctors, so you have less patients per doctor. You fund more nurses so there are less patients per nurse. You don't create a halfway house between a doctor and a nurse and tack on the vague and misleading title of 'practitioner'. Have some pride in your profession, honestly.
(edited 9 years ago)
Surgeons are the ones with the attitude ! Nurses are normally very easy to get along with. If you don't you might be at fault. A few managers and senior nurses have attitude but to be challenged is normally quite healthy. You have to admire a nurse who stands up to a surgical consultant - big respect !
When I was a house officer oncall, I used to take all my odd ECG to get the ccu nurses opinion. They are excellent at it. When I had to give adenosine by the med registrar as 'oh this is nothing', I was alone in aau and i called the ccu nurse who saved my ass. he said we needed to record it and told me to stop giving it when it was in AF after the second adenosine. I could have got into big trouble there if I was being cocky. Utilising the nurses skills may save your ass one day!
Original post by Revenged
When I was a house officer oncall, I used to take all my odd ECG to get the ccu nurses opinion. They are excellent at it. When I had to give adenosine by the med registrar as 'oh this is nothing', I was alone in aau and i called the ccu nurse who saved my ass. he said we needed to record it and told me to stop giving it when it was in AF after the second adenosine. I could have got into big trouble there if I was being cocky. Utilising the nurses skills may save your ass one day!
Good example of a system fault right there. Why were you being left to give adenosine alone? Med reg too busy etc? Shouldn't happen.
Yes, ask the nurses for an opinion: but be under no illusion that if it were to be the wrong advice and harm came, you would find that advice retracted faster than a rat up a drainpipe. There's no ass-covering in the notes that you get from having discussed with your senior. The buck will have stopped with you.
Original post by digitalis
Good example of a system fault right there. Why were you being left to give adenosine alone? Med reg too busy etc? Shouldn't happen.
Yes, ask the nurses for an opinion: but be under no illusion that if it were to be the wrong advice and harm came, you would find that advice retracted faster than a rat up a drainpipe. There's no ass-covering in the notes that you get from having discussed with your senior. The buck will have stopped with you.
Yes, ask the nurses for an opinion: but be under no illusion that if it were to be the wrong advice and harm came, you would find that advice retracted faster than a rat up a drainpipe. There's no ass-covering in the notes that you get from having discussed with your senior. The buck will have stopped with you.
So... Why have med reg? You have to take responsibility. Med reg have to do everything now as sho are deskilled.
I could not do lumbar punctures, ascetic drains, chest drains etc. I would not take out a chest drain out as I could not be confident as I had only done in a couple of times .
Maybe I was wrong but I have adenosine 3 times with ccu nurse for svt, Sho always do it ourselves, it is quite basic. Can't delegate everything mate!
Original post by Revenged
So... Why have med reg? You have to take responsibility. Med reg have to do everything now as sho are deskilled.
I could not do lumbar punctures, ascetic drains, chest drains etc. I would not take out a chest drain out as I could not be confident as I had only done in a couple of times .
Maybe I was wrong but I have adenosine 3 times with ccu nurse for svt, Sho always do it ourselves, it is quite basic. Can't delegate everything mate!
I could not do lumbar punctures, ascetic drains, chest drains etc. I would not take out a chest drain out as I could not be confident as I had only done in a couple of times .
Maybe I was wrong but I have adenosine 3 times with ccu nurse for svt, Sho always do it ourselves, it is quite basic. Can't delegate everything mate!
Delegation is not the point. With this adenosine issue, you said you were 'alone in aau' and a ccu nurse 'saved your ass'.
Now, that implies a lack of confidence. Your first time giving it maybe? In that case, your med reg should have been there. If by the third time doing it you are confident you can handle the complications, then that is a different story.
Original post by digitalis
I'm astounded that after so many years you still have a chip on your shoulder. You could have gone to medical school in this time and sorted it out.
The fact that you have never been actually on call is apparent. 99% of the call workload is prescribing PRNs? Please.
The fact that you have never been actually on call is apparent. 99% of the call workload is prescribing PRNs? Please.
I did not say prescribing PRNs is 99% of the work done on call, I said 99 % of requests are for prescribing , two very key differences
work vs requests - i don't think anyone disputes that one porrly patient can take up several hours of your time across the 8 , 10 or 12 hours of your shift
prescribing vs prescribing PRNs -
Original post by digitalis
Foundation doctors are Teflon coated and basically useless?
Foundation doctors are Teflon coated and basically useless?
they are teflon coated - they can not turn up, **** up badly and be saved by ythe due diligence of expeirenced Nurses and Pharmacists and what happens ? they progress , i'vve only once heard of a Doctor fail to progress apart from at external exam sensitive progression points - ironically said doctor had flown through the external exam but his consultant and the Nursing staff on the AAU felt that we would not be able ot trust him as a Med reg ... his 'punishment' a specially created job where he was a Acute Medicine Reg in daylight hours and an SHO out of hours...
as for their utility ... there are far to many Foundation and Core Doctors who think they know more than they do and/or think they know more than Specialist Nurses
Original post by digitalis
Again, what planet are you living on? I have the greatest respect for this batch of doctors who prop up the vast majority of on call rotas. I was on call overnight for surgery receiving for a catchment area of 200,000 people, filtering GP admissions, covering a 150 patient bedbase and expected to go to theatre for emergencies. You have literally no idea what you are talking about.
Again, what planet are you living on? I have the greatest respect for this batch of doctors who prop up the vast majority of on call rotas. I was on call overnight for surgery receiving for a catchment area of 200,000 people, filtering GP admissions, covering a 150 patient bedbase and expected to go to theatre for emergencies. You have literally no idea what you are talking about.
i think being Nurse in Charge of a Acute Assessment Unit on a multi site trust having previously run a CDU and been an Senior Staff Nurse in a large ED gives me a little bit of an idea of what is happening in the average trust beds and admissions wise ...
Never mind all the Urology patients coming to AAU who get sorted by the nursing staff and the SHO just had to check the result and present to the reg / cons
Original post by digitalis
Sorry to break this to you, but it has nothing to do with Trusts willing to pay for some masters or whatever. Just because you spent a few years doing ward nursing, patient care and giving out medicines does not mean you are eligible to do medical work or having a stab at reading an ECG. And what's all this about nurses breaking the rules and prescribing? It isn't a trivial matter and enclosing it in quotation marks doesn't legitimise it. If I ever found this happening, I would ensure that the nurse who did that would be driven into the ground for impersonating a registered medical practitioner.
Sorry to break this to you, but it has nothing to do with Trusts willing to pay for some masters or whatever. Just because you spent a few years doing ward nursing, patient care and giving out medicines does not mean you are eligible to do medical work or having a stab at reading an ECG. And what's all this about nurses breaking the rules and prescribing? It isn't a trivial matter and enclosing it in quotation marks doesn't legitimise it. If I ever found this happening, I would ensure that the nurse who did that would be driven into the ground for impersonating a registered medical practitioner.
I think you need to go and read up on the criteria to access Independent prescriber Status for RNs and Pharmacists.
also have a good look at many EDs and those trusts who have properly implemented Hospital @Night
Original post by digitalis
There's a very simple solution to all this, which is seen when you brush away your hidden agenda. You fund more training posts for doctors, so you have less patients per doctor. You fund more nurses so there are less patients per nurse. You don't create a halfway house between a doctor and a nurse and tack on the vague and misleading title of 'practitioner'. Have some pride in your profession, honestly.
There's a very simple solution to all this, which is seen when you brush away your hidden agenda. You fund more training posts for doctors, so you have less patients per doctor. You fund more nurses so there are less patients per nurse. You don't create a halfway house between a doctor and a nurse and tack on the vague and misleading title of 'practitioner'. Have some pride in your profession, honestly.
or you realise that service provision by staff who are not competent ( and by definition all foundation Doctors have not demonstrated competency to work unsupervised ) is no way to deliver a service. the Medical training pipeline cannot support sufficient HSTs to provide decent middle grade cover and Middle grade Speciality Doctors generally progress to quasi or de facto senior posts whether as Ass Spec or by stepping back onto the copath to consultancy and the fears of 'sub consultants' being a disservice are a great disservice to our existing 'sub consultant' but 'fully trained ' Senior Doctors - Associate Specialists. it also reflects that the UK has one of the highest standarsds to be considered 'fully trained' .
I'm not sure how someone with greater practical experience and better defined competencies and supervision requirements holding an academically superior Qualification can be described as a 'halfway house'
if anything is a half way house it's a reliance on foundation doctors to deliver Service.
ask any consultant and they will tell you the zenith of the knowledge of the Doctor is at 4 to 5 years post initial qualification , after that you begin to know more about less and less as you go through HST and post CCT fellowships to get to your chosen speciality ...
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- Horrible nursing assessor hasn’t signed documents from 2 months ago
- Nursing
- Access to HE Healthcare Professionals USP College
- Will DSA affect me after i graduate?
- Withdrawn from nursing placement
- Giving up a full time well paid job to start a career change.
- Exam/Future Advice
- Nursing placement grades
- University choices I can do with my A-Levels
- Essex Oral health science admissions 2022
- revision tips during christmas?
- English Language Paper 2 Question 4
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