Is Oxford lagging behind?

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Oxford has considerably more research output in maths than Cambridge

Medicine - UCL > Oxford > Cambridge

Engineering (as is this) - Yes, Cambridge quite a way ahead of Oxford in this

Sciences
Law
Economics
History
English

Feel free to look up the rest yourself. But I would not say that Oxford is really lagging behind Cambridge as a research university.

I have to accept that, in terms of research it is indeed producing some amazing work but in terms of undergraduate courses/calibre of undergrads, I'd say Cambridge has been topping it for quite some time now. It's come to the point where its a blatant decision to opt Cambridge over Oxford for sciences (and I do believe, in subjects such as Law/Economics/History/English) when year 13 students are considering the best institution to study at in the country.

Reply 21

ClickItBack

Original post by Kabulkid

It is hard to say. For most courses, Oxford offers quite different structures to Cambridge. Consider natsci vs single sciences, for example; or that Oxford doesn't do a straight engineering degree afaik.

I would agree to an extent on undergraduate maths - I think the very very best (IMO team etc) opt for Cambridge almost always - and there is some quantitative evidence around to back this up.

Reply 22

SmaugTheTerrible

Welcome to the student room, where people who haven't even finished secondary school make sweeping statements on pointless topics.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 23

Kabulkid

Original post by SmaugTheTerrible

Welcome to the student room, where the people who haven't even finished secondary school make sweeping statements on pointless topics.

I'm at uni. It isn't a pointless topic and yes it is a sweeping statement. Don't hate just because you didn't get into Oxbridge.

Reply 24

Okorange

Original post by ClickItBack

Citations don't mean everything for quality in a medical school. So I would disagree that UCL is the best. Its one of the best, but not the best.

Reply 25

ClickItBack

Original post by Okorange

Citations don't mean everything for quality in a medical school. So I would disagree that UCL is the best. Its one of the best, but not the best.

Of course there is much more to a medical school than its research output, however, I was only comparing them in those terms in my statement 'UCL > Oxford > Cambridge'.

The list is produced not simply number of publications but a formula that takes into account quality as well. It is not a perfect metric, but it's not terrible either.

Reply 26

SmaugTheTerrible

Original post by Kabulkid

I'm at uni. It isn't a pointless topic and yes it is a sweeping statement. Don't hate just because you didn't get into Oxbridge.

For someone smart enough to get in Cambridge you surprise me with your inherent content with making statements backed with no evidence and need to boost your ego by debating, in most peoples eyes, a rather pointless topic.

Oxford and Cambridge are both top Universities and there really isn't much in putting one down, because if anything, you're arguments are riddled with bias (being a student at Cambridge) and an underlying necessity to suggest the decline of Oxford in a desperate attempt to increase your self worth.

All this would be fine of course, if you hadn't made a personal attack on me and my intellectual ability and rational for posting a comment that wasn't directly at you at an individual level but rather concerned the thread as a whole.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 27

Kabulkid

Original post by SmaugTheTerrible

For someone smart enough to get in Cambridge you surprise me with your inherent content with making statements backed with no evidence and need to boost your ego by debating, in most peoples eyes, a rather pointless topic.

Oxford and Cambridge are both top Universities and there really isn't much in putting one down, because if anything, you're arguments are riddled with bias (being a student at Cambridge) and an underlying necessity to suggest the decline of Oxford in a desperate attempt to increase your self worth.

All this would be fine of course, if you hadn't made a personal attack on me and my intellectual ability and rational for posting a comment that wasn't directly at your at an individual level but rather concerned the thread as a whole.

nah

Reply 28

nulli tertius

Original post by Kabulkid

It's been widely accepted that for sciences Cambridge tops it in the UK, no questions asked. The prestige that Oxford 'had' was that it 'was' good in the humanities aspect, however, with subjects such as Law/Economics/History/English, its also accepted that Cambridge is better. Is Oxford lagging behind?

I guess the one good course that Oxford can boast about is PPE, but having one course that stands out doesn't cut it.

Also, with Imperial on the rise, they are definitely giving Cambridge a run for their money and it looks like they've exceeded Oxford already.

This is a complete worm's eye view.

You are either doing or have just completed A levels with a view to undergraduate study. Therefore you view these universities through undergraduate admissions.

A lot of academics at both universities wouldn't give a monkey's if their university abandoned undergraduate teaching entirely.

Neither university has added any undergraduate places for 40 years. In 1979 Oxford had 2,975 postgrads (all years). In 2013 it had 10,850.

Academically, undergraduate courses are probably not justified and financially they are a burden. However, they mean that Oxbridge alumni that go out into the world continue to look kindly upon them so they have a public relations value.

But you think the prestige of these universities rests on which one has the slightly higher average number of UCAS points. Do you think that when Cambridge pitches to government for money, it goes on about the A level results of its undergraduates? Do you think Cambridge's reputation in philosophy rests on how many VIth formers applied last year or on Erasmus, Wittgenstein and Russell.

Ever since Oxford and Cambridge started admitting on conditional offers, Cambridge has sought the higher grades. There was a relatively short period before the introduction of the A* grade when Oxford raised its standard offer to AAA to match Cambridge but that is it.

In any event Cambridge may find that it has to drop its offers. With A level results now falling, Cambridge has suffered a decline in applications in favour of Oxford. Clearly candidates have been steered towards Oxford because of the risk of not meeting offers. If that continues next year, expect offer grades to fall.

Reply 29

Chief Wiggum

Original post by ClickItBack

http://www.imo-register.org.uk/#stats

271 to Cambridge (of which 168 are Trinity), 22 to Oxford.

Perhaps Trinity Cambridge holding an IMO camp makes a difference.

Reply 30

ClickItBack

Original post by Chief Wiggum

http://www.imo-register.org.uk/#stats

271 to Cambridge (of which 168 are Trinity), 22 to Oxford.

Perhaps Trinity Cambridge holding an IMO camp makes a difference.

Yeah, that's the list I saw before.

I think it's a combination of the camp and just that Cambridge has always historically been 'the' university for maths in the UK.

Maybe there are stats on the destinations of physics/chemistry/biology/compsci olympiad team members too. It'd be interesting to see if it splits out differently.