How did the Germans suddenly become so evil under the third reich?
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Original post by asinner
No, they are not.
After World War I, for which Germany alone was blamed even though all parties were responsible for the Great War, the German people felt humiliated by the unfair Treaty of Versailles. This combined with economic crisis, which lead to political instability, gave rise to nationalism.
Hitler may have been evil, but he was also smart. After gaining power he swiftly consolidated it and eliminated anyone posing a threat.
After the start of World War II the people for supportive because the felt that they were fighting back against the unfair treatment after World War I.
Also Hitler made the German people believe the War was started by the Polish, to secure their support (after WWI they were not too keen on War).
The quick and decisive victories against Poland, France, Belgium and the Netherlands helped gathering more support.
Modern historians generally agree that WWI was the fault of all the European powers and was the main cause for the rise of nazism in Germany and thus also WWII.
As for the Holocaust and anti-semitism, the Nazis did not plan it.
Their original intention was to remove the Jews from Germany to Siberia or Madagascar. However as the War started turning in favor of the Allies a new 'solution' was needed, since both Madagascar and Siberia were off limits.
This 'solution' was the Holocaust (by the way the Concentration camp is a british invention).
The Holocaust was kept secret from the German people, they did know about the discrimination of the Jews by the Nazis, but not of the systematic murder.
Also most people did not support this discrimination, as is obvious by the meager participation of civilians during the "Reichskristallnacht".
There were many Germans who discriminated the Jews, but also many who did not, or even risked their lives trying to help them.
Anti-semitism is something that has existed for centuries and is not unique to the Germans. As a matter of fact Germany was very open to Jews until the Nazis came along which is why there were such large Jewish communities in Germany. As a matter of fact excluding the Third Reich Germany was more open towards Jews than most other European countries. In medieval times there was an extremely anti-Semitic phase in Europe during which Jews were being persecuted throughout Europe it was in German cities that they found protection.
They have most definitely changed. Germany as fewer Nazis than countries that fought them such as Russia or the US.
Germans are very friendly, welcoming and not very different from you or me.
You should remember that the German people are thousands of years old and we are just talking about a period of 12 years. Judging a nation on such a fraction of their existence, and the worst on at that, is a bad idea. All nations have better and worse times, the Germans are simply unfortunate that the memory of WWII and the Holocaust is relatively fresh, unlike other countries failures.
I hope this answers your question.
After World War I, for which Germany alone was blamed even though all parties were responsible for the Great War, the German people felt humiliated by the unfair Treaty of Versailles. This combined with economic crisis, which lead to political instability, gave rise to nationalism.
Hitler may have been evil, but he was also smart. After gaining power he swiftly consolidated it and eliminated anyone posing a threat.
After the start of World War II the people for supportive because the felt that they were fighting back against the unfair treatment after World War I.
Also Hitler made the German people believe the War was started by the Polish, to secure their support (after WWI they were not too keen on War).
The quick and decisive victories against Poland, France, Belgium and the Netherlands helped gathering more support.
Modern historians generally agree that WWI was the fault of all the European powers and was the main cause for the rise of nazism in Germany and thus also WWII.
As for the Holocaust and anti-semitism, the Nazis did not plan it.
Their original intention was to remove the Jews from Germany to Siberia or Madagascar. However as the War started turning in favor of the Allies a new 'solution' was needed, since both Madagascar and Siberia were off limits.
This 'solution' was the Holocaust (by the way the Concentration camp is a british invention).
The Holocaust was kept secret from the German people, they did know about the discrimination of the Jews by the Nazis, but not of the systematic murder.
Also most people did not support this discrimination, as is obvious by the meager participation of civilians during the "Reichskristallnacht".
There were many Germans who discriminated the Jews, but also many who did not, or even risked their lives trying to help them.
Anti-semitism is something that has existed for centuries and is not unique to the Germans. As a matter of fact Germany was very open to Jews until the Nazis came along which is why there were such large Jewish communities in Germany. As a matter of fact excluding the Third Reich Germany was more open towards Jews than most other European countries. In medieval times there was an extremely anti-Semitic phase in Europe during which Jews were being persecuted throughout Europe it was in German cities that they found protection.
They have most definitely changed. Germany as fewer Nazis than countries that fought them such as Russia or the US.
Germans are very friendly, welcoming and not very different from you or me.
You should remember that the German people are thousands of years old and we are just talking about a period of 12 years. Judging a nation on such a fraction of their existence, and the worst on at that, is a bad idea. All nations have better and worse times, the Germans are simply unfortunate that the memory of WWII and the Holocaust is relatively fresh, unlike other countries failures.
I hope this answers your question.
Worst answer ever. Looks like a 1st year undergrad or alevel lecture regurgitated. Factually inept.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Lmao no, Germans are not intrinsically evil...
There's many who believe otherwise. Not the 'evil' part, but that Hitler was congruent with the elements of nationalism since feudal times with his foreign policy (see fritz fisher, taylor, etc, etc. 'The German Problem' has been coined time and time again.
Original post by perfectsymbology
The Germans were probably looking for some easy answers to their woes after the devastation of World War 1 in which no one really won anything out of it. So you had millions of people dead and an economy in tatters all for nothing and the people were looking for something to blame all their problems on, and Hitler was there to provide the answer they were looking for.
Rubbish. The German economy was fine, and they ran a massive ponzi scheme to pay off reparations. The Young plan was obv bad, but a moratorium was issued anyway.
Original post by asinner
I do agree with you.
However I like to use this example, even if it is not quite accurate, to remind people that Germany is not the source of evil. That more or less every country has some very dark things in its past, and in Britain's case the concentration camps are from being their darkest deed.
However I like to use this example, even if it is not quite accurate, to remind people that Germany is not the source of evil. That more or less every country has some very dark things in its past, and in Britain's case the concentration camps are from being their darkest deed.
concentration camp != mass extermination camp. The word had wildly different origins from the Nazi ones.
Original post by Elysium500
World War I and II were planned. They were not because of the assassination of someone in Sarajevo and a madman in Germany. There is hard evidence that these wars were planned before 1914.
I was convenience and laissez faire attitude to war.
II was Hitler's doing. Europe had been disarming heavily through the 20's and 30's and were decidedly anti war.
Original post by samba
Worst answer ever. Looks like a 1st year undergrad or alevel lecture regurgitated. Factually inept.
Care to elaborate?
Well, the German people wouldn't have known about the extermination camps. Still, I would have thought very few of them agreed with Nazi policy, but the thing about being under a dictatorship, especially one which relies on total war and national unity of purpose, is you have to do what they want. If you don't join the Party, you can't get a job, if you can't get a job, you can't feed your family, etc etc.
Original post by Elysium500
World War I and II were planned. They were not because of the assassination of someone in Sarajevo and a madman in Germany. There is hard evidence that these wars were planned before 1914.
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Posted from TSR Mobile
No, you misunderstand causation. World War I was expected for years, if not decades, before it broke out, and if not for Sarajevo, it would only have been something else. Everyone knew this, so elaborate contingency plans will have been made by anyone with a lot to lose from a large-scale upheaval.
Original post by asinner
Care to elaborate?
I thought about it, but it was a pretty long post which at least made a decent effort to explain things to the OP, so didn't really want to tear things to shreds.
Nationalism had been around for a long term in Germany, as had the concepts of unification, expansion, and, lebensraum (which originally referred to colonies btw not european expansion) had been around for at least a few hundred years, as had the concept of the volksdeutsche. Some [as in the post above] trace the 'german problem' back to the feudal alliances which created Germany, but it's not really clear how much of a problem it was. Regardless the congruence between extreme nationalism and even the bismarcks and stresemans of the world effectively ended in 1936. Nazism was not an extension of Nationalism.
Versailles was a ****storm, with retarded terms, and totally bankrupt from the beginning with the 'capacity to pay' clause. Keynes was partially right. The effects however was not the 'stab in the back' - This was a total myth. Germany were battered by november 1918, and the only reason the 'stab in the back' was perpetuated is because of where it was fought. They were totally defeated.
Modern historians do all not generally agree with the thesis 'that WWI was the fault of all the European powers and was the main cause for the rise of nazism in Germany and thus also WWII.' The origins of world war I are disputable, but you can possibly argue it. It wasn't the main cause for nazism though.
They did plan the holocaust, and it was in Hitler's writing all the way through. Initially they didn't have the capacity to do it. The communications with the muftah and others confirm it was a planned op. It ran completely counterproductive to the war effort too...
Already addressed the concentration camp thing.
German's did know. If you watch the Shoah films there's a mass of evidence proving that.
The anti-semitism roots thing is disputable, but has some merit and is outside the scope of this so I'll leave it.
The conclusion is pretty poor. It doesn't explain anything, just says 'aw, unlucky germany.' All in all, the post reads like a letter from an apologist.
To failsafe my post: the following is just another reply to the question. It isn't necessarily what I think, but it's interesting and it's a perspective that doesn't get thought about a lot, I just thought I'd share it because the OP is asking.
The theory is that there is a God has a "restraining hand" on humanity, and during the WW2 it was removed from a whole nation as an example to the world. See Paul's letters to the Romans and the Corinthians, there are lots of pictures of this: "Therefore God gave them up to uncleanness" "For this reason God gave them over to vile passions" "Got gave them over to a debased mind" "Deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh" etc etc.
As others have pointed out already there was a LOT of anti-semitism in Europe before WW2. You only have to read a couple of the modernist poets (or any pre-war literature at all really) to see examples of this. When God took his "restraining hand" from the Germans - i.e. the thing that made them stop and think "This is all a bit rash. Any vague prejudices any of us have should probably be nurtured behind closed doors and brooded instead of acted upon" and instead make them say "Let's band together and rid our nation of this human vermin!" It's a pretty interesting concept.
Hope someone found this interesting!
The theory is that there is a God has a "restraining hand" on humanity, and during the WW2 it was removed from a whole nation as an example to the world. See Paul's letters to the Romans and the Corinthians, there are lots of pictures of this: "Therefore God gave them up to uncleanness" "For this reason God gave them over to vile passions" "Got gave them over to a debased mind" "Deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh" etc etc.
As others have pointed out already there was a LOT of anti-semitism in Europe before WW2. You only have to read a couple of the modernist poets (or any pre-war literature at all really) to see examples of this. When God took his "restraining hand" from the Germans - i.e. the thing that made them stop and think "This is all a bit rash. Any vague prejudices any of us have should probably be nurtured behind closed doors and brooded instead of acted upon" and instead make them say "Let's band together and rid our nation of this human vermin!" It's a pretty interesting concept.
Hope someone found this interesting!
Original post by asinner
No, they are not.
After World War I, for which Germany alone was blamed even though all parties were responsible for the Great War, the German people felt humiliated by the unfair Treaty of Versailles. This combined with economic crisis, which lead to political instability, gave rise to nationalism.
Hitler may have been evil, but he was also smart. After gaining power he swiftly consolidated it and eliminated anyone posing a threat.
After the start of World War II the people for supportive because the felt that they were fighting back against the unfair treatment after World War I.
Also Hitler made the German people believe the War was started by the Polish, to secure their support (after WWI they were not too keen on War).
The quick and decisive victories against Poland, France, Belgium and the Netherlands helped gathering more support.
Modern historians generally agree that WWI was the fault of all the European powers and was the main cause for the rise of nazism in Germany and thus also WWII.
As for the Holocaust and anti-semitism, the Nazis did not plan it.
Their original intention was to remove the Jews from Germany to Siberia or Madagascar. However as the War started turning in favor of the Allies a new 'solution' was needed, since both Madagascar and Siberia were off limits.
This 'solution' was the Holocaust (by the way the Concentration camp is a british invention).
The Holocaust was kept secret from the German people, they did know about the discrimination of the Jews by the Nazis, but not of the systematic murder.
Also most people did not support this discrimination, as is obvious by the meager participation of civilians during the "Reichskristallnacht".
There were many Germans who discriminated the Jews, but also many who did not, or even risked their lives trying to help them.
Anti-semitism is something that has existed for centuries and is not unique to the Germans. As a matter of fact Germany was very open to Jews until the Nazis came along which is why there were such large Jewish communities in Germany. As a matter of fact excluding the Third Reich Germany was more open towards Jews than most other European countries. In medieval times there was an extremely anti-Semitic phase in Europe during which Jews were being persecuted throughout Europe it was in German cities that they found protection.
They have most definitely changed. Germany as fewer Nazis than countries that fought them such as Russia or the US.
Germans are very friendly, welcoming and not very different from you or me.
You should remember that the German people are thousands of years old and we are just talking about a period of 12 years. Judging a nation on such a fraction of their existence, and the worst on at that, is a bad idea. All nations have better and worse times, the Germans are simply unfortunate that the memory of WWII and the Holocaust is relatively fresh, unlike other countries failures.
I hope this answers your question.
After World War I, for which Germany alone was blamed even though all parties were responsible for the Great War, the German people felt humiliated by the unfair Treaty of Versailles. This combined with economic crisis, which lead to political instability, gave rise to nationalism.
Hitler may have been evil, but he was also smart. After gaining power he swiftly consolidated it and eliminated anyone posing a threat.
After the start of World War II the people for supportive because the felt that they were fighting back against the unfair treatment after World War I.
Also Hitler made the German people believe the War was started by the Polish, to secure their support (after WWI they were not too keen on War).
The quick and decisive victories against Poland, France, Belgium and the Netherlands helped gathering more support.
Modern historians generally agree that WWI was the fault of all the European powers and was the main cause for the rise of nazism in Germany and thus also WWII.
As for the Holocaust and anti-semitism, the Nazis did not plan it.
Their original intention was to remove the Jews from Germany to Siberia or Madagascar. However as the War started turning in favor of the Allies a new 'solution' was needed, since both Madagascar and Siberia were off limits.
This 'solution' was the Holocaust (by the way the Concentration camp is a british invention).
The Holocaust was kept secret from the German people, they did know about the discrimination of the Jews by the Nazis, but not of the systematic murder.
Also most people did not support this discrimination, as is obvious by the meager participation of civilians during the "Reichskristallnacht".
There were many Germans who discriminated the Jews, but also many who did not, or even risked their lives trying to help them.
Anti-semitism is something that has existed for centuries and is not unique to the Germans. As a matter of fact Germany was very open to Jews until the Nazis came along which is why there were such large Jewish communities in Germany. As a matter of fact excluding the Third Reich Germany was more open towards Jews than most other European countries. In medieval times there was an extremely anti-Semitic phase in Europe during which Jews were being persecuted throughout Europe it was in German cities that they found protection.
They have most definitely changed. Germany as fewer Nazis than countries that fought them such as Russia or the US.
Germans are very friendly, welcoming and not very different from you or me.
You should remember that the German people are thousands of years old and we are just talking about a period of 12 years. Judging a nation on such a fraction of their existence, and the worst on at that, is a bad idea. All nations have better and worse times, the Germans are simply unfortunate that the memory of WWII and the Holocaust is relatively fresh, unlike other countries failures.
I hope this answers your question.
Well said. Remember that France has a bad antisemitic history and made the Jews wear the star of David first
Original post by asinner
No, they are not.
After World War I, for which Germany alone was blamed even though all parties were responsible for the Great War, the German people felt humiliated by the unfair Treaty of Versailles. This combined with economic crisis, which lead to political instability, gave rise to nationalism.
Hitler may have been evil, but he was also smart. After gaining power he swiftly consolidated it and eliminated anyone posing a threat.
After the start of World War II the people for supportive because the felt that they were fighting back against the unfair treatment after World War I.
Also Hitler made the German people believe the War was started by the Polish, to secure their support (after WWI they were not too keen on War).
The quick and decisive victories against Poland, France, Belgium and the Netherlands helped gathering more support.
Modern historians generally agree that WWI was the fault of all the European powers and was the main cause for the rise of nazism in Germany and thus also WWII.
As for the Holocaust and anti-semitism, the Nazis did not plan it.
Their original intention was to remove the Jews from Germany to Siberia or Madagascar. However as the War started turning in favor of the Allies a new 'solution' was needed, since both Madagascar and Siberia were off limits.
This 'solution' was the Holocaust (by the way the Concentration camp is a british invention).
The Holocaust was kept secret from the German people, they did know about the discrimination of the Jews by the Nazis, but not of the systematic murder.
Also most people did not support this discrimination, as is obvious by the meager participation of civilians during the "Reichskristallnacht".
There were many Germans who discriminated the Jews, but also many who did not, or even risked their lives trying to help them.
Anti-semitism is something that has existed for centuries and is not unique to the Germans. As a matter of fact Germany was very open to Jews until the Nazis came along which is why there were such large Jewish communities in Germany. As a matter of fact excluding the Third Reich Germany was more open towards Jews than most other European countries. In medieval times there was an extremely anti-Semitic phase in Europe during which Jews were being persecuted throughout Europe it was in German cities that they found protection.
They have most definitely changed. Germany as fewer Nazis than countries that fought them such as Russia or the US.
Germans are very friendly, welcoming and not very different from you or me.
You should remember that the German people are thousands of years old and we are just talking about a period of 12 years. Judging a nation on such a fraction of their existence, and the worst on at that, is a bad idea. All nations have better and worse times, the Germans are simply unfortunate that the memory of WWII and the Holocaust is relatively fresh, unlike other countries failures.
I hope this answers your question.
After World War I, for which Germany alone was blamed even though all parties were responsible for the Great War, the German people felt humiliated by the unfair Treaty of Versailles. This combined with economic crisis, which lead to political instability, gave rise to nationalism.
Hitler may have been evil, but he was also smart. After gaining power he swiftly consolidated it and eliminated anyone posing a threat.
After the start of World War II the people for supportive because the felt that they were fighting back against the unfair treatment after World War I.
Also Hitler made the German people believe the War was started by the Polish, to secure their support (after WWI they were not too keen on War).
The quick and decisive victories against Poland, France, Belgium and the Netherlands helped gathering more support.
Modern historians generally agree that WWI was the fault of all the European powers and was the main cause for the rise of nazism in Germany and thus also WWII.
As for the Holocaust and anti-semitism, the Nazis did not plan it.
Their original intention was to remove the Jews from Germany to Siberia or Madagascar. However as the War started turning in favor of the Allies a new 'solution' was needed, since both Madagascar and Siberia were off limits.
This 'solution' was the Holocaust (by the way the Concentration camp is a british invention).
The Holocaust was kept secret from the German people, they did know about the discrimination of the Jews by the Nazis, but not of the systematic murder.
Also most people did not support this discrimination, as is obvious by the meager participation of civilians during the "Reichskristallnacht".
There were many Germans who discriminated the Jews, but also many who did not, or even risked their lives trying to help them.
Anti-semitism is something that has existed for centuries and is not unique to the Germans. As a matter of fact Germany was very open to Jews until the Nazis came along which is why there were such large Jewish communities in Germany. As a matter of fact excluding the Third Reich Germany was more open towards Jews than most other European countries. In medieval times there was an extremely anti-Semitic phase in Europe during which Jews were being persecuted throughout Europe it was in German cities that they found protection.
They have most definitely changed. Germany as fewer Nazis than countries that fought them such as Russia or the US.
Germans are very friendly, welcoming and not very different from you or me.
You should remember that the German people are thousands of years old and we are just talking about a period of 12 years. Judging a nation on such a fraction of their existence, and the worst on at that, is a bad idea. All nations have better and worse times, the Germans are simply unfortunate that the memory of WWII and the Holocaust is relatively fresh, unlike other countries failures.
I hope this answers your question.
Good answer, but two things jump out to me.
1) the British did not invent the concentration camp, similar concepts have been around for millenia and as they are normally defined they're possibly a Polish invention, and definitely pre date the second boer war which is where the fallacy that we invented it comes from.
2) perhaps the reason that Germany has so few Nazis now isn't so much that the people have changed and more down to their political freedoms being suppressed, although I suppose you could argue that this has forced a change in the people.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by samba
I thought about it, but it was a pretty long post which at least made a decent effort to explain things to the OP, so didn't really want to tear things to shreds.
Nationalism had been around for a long term in Germany, as had the concepts of unification, expansion, and, lebensraum (which originally referred to colonies btw not european expansion) had been around for at least a few hundred years, as had the concept of the volksdeutsche. Some [as in the post above] trace the 'german problem' back to the feudal alliances which created Germany, but it's not really clear how much of a problem it was. Regardless the congruence between extreme nationalism and even the bismarcks and stresemans of the world effectively ended in 1936. Nazism was not an extension of Nationalism.
Versailles was a ****storm, with retarded terms, and totally bankrupt from the beginning with the 'capacity to pay' clause. Keynes was partially right. The effects however was not the 'stab in the back' - This was a total myth. Germany were battered by november 1918, and the only reason the 'stab in the back' was perpetuated is because of where it was fought. They were totally defeated.
Modern historians do all not generally agree with the thesis 'that WWI was the fault of all the European powers and was the main cause for the rise of nazism in Germany and thus also WWII.' The origins of world war I are disputable, but you can possibly argue it. It wasn't the main cause for nazism though.
They did plan the holocaust, and it was in Hitler's writing all the way through. Initially they didn't have the capacity to do it. The communications with the muftah and others confirm it was a planned op. It ran completely counterproductive to the war effort too...
Already addressed the concentration camp thing.
German's did know. If you watch the Shoah films there's a mass of evidence proving that.
The anti-semitism roots thing is disputable, but has some merit and is outside the scope of this so I'll leave it.
The conclusion is pretty poor. It doesn't explain anything, just says 'aw, unlucky germany.' All in all, the post reads like a letter from an apologist.
Nationalism had been around for a long term in Germany, as had the concepts of unification, expansion, and, lebensraum (which originally referred to colonies btw not european expansion) had been around for at least a few hundred years, as had the concept of the volksdeutsche. Some [as in the post above] trace the 'german problem' back to the feudal alliances which created Germany, but it's not really clear how much of a problem it was. Regardless the congruence between extreme nationalism and even the bismarcks and stresemans of the world effectively ended in 1936. Nazism was not an extension of Nationalism.
Versailles was a ****storm, with retarded terms, and totally bankrupt from the beginning with the 'capacity to pay' clause. Keynes was partially right. The effects however was not the 'stab in the back' - This was a total myth. Germany were battered by november 1918, and the only reason the 'stab in the back' was perpetuated is because of where it was fought. They were totally defeated.
Modern historians do all not generally agree with the thesis 'that WWI was the fault of all the European powers and was the main cause for the rise of nazism in Germany and thus also WWII.' The origins of world war I are disputable, but you can possibly argue it. It wasn't the main cause for nazism though.
They did plan the holocaust, and it was in Hitler's writing all the way through. Initially they didn't have the capacity to do it. The communications with the muftah and others confirm it was a planned op. It ran completely counterproductive to the war effort too...
Already addressed the concentration camp thing.
German's did know. If you watch the Shoah films there's a mass of evidence proving that.
The anti-semitism roots thing is disputable, but has some merit and is outside the scope of this so I'll leave it.
The conclusion is pretty poor. It doesn't explain anything, just says 'aw, unlucky germany.' All in all, the post reads like a letter from an apologist.
Thank you for the reply.
You obviously know more about the topic than I do.
As far as I know the "Endloesung" was first mentioned in 1942 as an alternative to the "Madagaskarplan" etc.
I did not mean to sound like an apologist.
However I did want to remind people that atrocities have also been committed by other countries/nations.
Original post by asinner
Thank you for the reply.
You obviously know more about the topic than I do.
As far as I know the "Endloesung" was first mentioned in 1942 as an alternative to the "Madagaskarplan" etc.
I did not mean to sound like an apologist.
However I did want to remind people that atrocities have also been committed by other countries/nations.
You obviously know more about the topic than I do.
As far as I know the "Endloesung" was first mentioned in 1942 as an alternative to the "Madagaskarplan" etc.
I did not mean to sound like an apologist.
However I did want to remind people that atrocities have also been committed by other countries/nations.
It's alright, we all learn as we go along
The Versailles thing is very complex, and even universities neglect to mention the most modern tract in historiography. The problem being that historians in general don't understand computation or economics.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution#Historiographic_debate_about_the_decision isn't perfect, but is decent. Even AJP Taylor, who credited hitler with nothing but being a bumbling idiot continuing 'the german problem' accepted that he did plan for Jewish destruction. Given that the evidence would suggest he wanted to takeover the world, not just Europe, he'd likely have killed them eventually.
Original post by perfectsymbology
Get back under your bridge. Whack!
No one has suggested that UKIP is the equivalent of the Nazis...yet.
No one has suggested that UKIP is the equivalent of the Nazis...yet.
Not even implying it, just pointing out that this characteristic is also featured during the Nazi era.
Divide and conquer, ruling a country 101.
Original post by NHM713
I think most people thought is was wrong, but, they weren't brave enough to say saying and people just went with it. I don't think there were/are intrinsically evil.
Reminds me of the British people. To afraid to stand up to evil religion and political movements for fear of being a racist or insert word + phobic.
Original post by holmes221
Reminds me of the British people. To afraid to stand up to evil religion and political movements for fear of being a racist or insert word + phobic.
What ou think British people are too P.C?
Original post by NHM713
What ou think British people are too P.C?
Liberal to the extent that extremist groups can walk all over us yes.
Original post by asinner
No, they are not.
After World War I, for which Germany alone was blamed even though all parties were responsible for the Great War, the German people felt humiliated by the unfair Treaty of Versailles. This combined with economic crisis, which lead to political instability, gave rise to nationalism.
Hitler may have been evil, but he was also smart. After gaining power he swiftly consolidated it and eliminated anyone posing a threat.
After the start of World War II the people for supportive because the felt that they were fighting back against the unfair treatment after World War I.
Also Hitler made the German people believe the War was started by the Polish, to secure their support (after WWI they were not too keen on War).
The quick and decisive victories against Poland, France, Belgium and the Netherlands helped gathering more support.
Modern historians generally agree that WWI was the fault of all the European powers and was the main cause for the rise of nazism in Germany and thus also WWII.
As for the Holocaust and anti-semitism, the Nazis did not plan it.
Their original intention was to remove the Jews from Germany to Siberia or Madagascar. However as the War started turning in favor of the Allies a new 'solution' was needed, since both Madagascar and Siberia were off limits.
This 'solution' was the Holocaust (by the way the Concentration camp is a british invention).
The Holocaust was kept secret from the German people, they did know about the discrimination of the Jews by the Nazis, but not of the systematic murder.
Also most people did not support this discrimination, as is obvious by the meager participation of civilians during the "Reichskristallnacht".
There were many Germans who discriminated the Jews, but also many who did not, or even risked their lives trying to help them.
Anti-semitism is something that has existed for centuries and is not unique to the Germans. As a matter of fact Germany was very open to Jews until the Nazis came along which is why there were such large Jewish communities in Germany. As a matter of fact excluding the Third Reich Germany was more open towards Jews than most other European countries. In medieval times there was an extremely anti-Semitic phase in Europe during which Jews were being persecuted throughout Europe it was in German cities that they found protection.
They have most definitely changed. Germany as fewer Nazis than countries that fought them such as Russia or the US.
Germans are very friendly, welcoming and not very different from you or me.
You should remember that the German people are thousands of years old and we are just talking about a period of 12 years. Judging a nation on such a fraction of their existence, and the worst on at that, is a bad idea. All nations have better and worse times, the Germans are simply unfortunate that the memory of WWII and the Holocaust is relatively fresh, unlike other countries failures.
I hope this answers your question.
After World War I, for which Germany alone was blamed even though all parties were responsible for the Great War, the German people felt humiliated by the unfair Treaty of Versailles. This combined with economic crisis, which lead to political instability, gave rise to nationalism.
Hitler may have been evil, but he was also smart. After gaining power he swiftly consolidated it and eliminated anyone posing a threat.
After the start of World War II the people for supportive because the felt that they were fighting back against the unfair treatment after World War I.
Also Hitler made the German people believe the War was started by the Polish, to secure their support (after WWI they were not too keen on War).
The quick and decisive victories against Poland, France, Belgium and the Netherlands helped gathering more support.
Modern historians generally agree that WWI was the fault of all the European powers and was the main cause for the rise of nazism in Germany and thus also WWII.
As for the Holocaust and anti-semitism, the Nazis did not plan it.
Their original intention was to remove the Jews from Germany to Siberia or Madagascar. However as the War started turning in favor of the Allies a new 'solution' was needed, since both Madagascar and Siberia were off limits.
This 'solution' was the Holocaust (by the way the Concentration camp is a british invention).
The Holocaust was kept secret from the German people, they did know about the discrimination of the Jews by the Nazis, but not of the systematic murder.
Also most people did not support this discrimination, as is obvious by the meager participation of civilians during the "Reichskristallnacht".
There were many Germans who discriminated the Jews, but also many who did not, or even risked their lives trying to help them.
Anti-semitism is something that has existed for centuries and is not unique to the Germans. As a matter of fact Germany was very open to Jews until the Nazis came along which is why there were such large Jewish communities in Germany. As a matter of fact excluding the Third Reich Germany was more open towards Jews than most other European countries. In medieval times there was an extremely anti-Semitic phase in Europe during which Jews were being persecuted throughout Europe it was in German cities that they found protection.
They have most definitely changed. Germany as fewer Nazis than countries that fought them such as Russia or the US.
Germans are very friendly, welcoming and not very different from you or me.
You should remember that the German people are thousands of years old and we are just talking about a period of 12 years. Judging a nation on such a fraction of their existence, and the worst on at that, is a bad idea. All nations have better and worse times, the Germans are simply unfortunate that the memory of WWII and the Holocaust is relatively fresh, unlike other countries failures.
I hope this answers your question.
Most historians believe that WW1 and WW2 were the fault of Germany actually. Germany is the biggest cause of both, which is rarely disputed.
Original post by holmes221
Liberal to the extent that extremist groups can walk all over us yes.
erm...I think we've gone off topic? I don't know where to take it from there?
You make liberals out to be, a great big bunch of, free loving hippy punchbags.
Original post by JamesManc
Most historians believe that WW1 and WW2 were the fault of Germany actually. Germany is the biggest cause of both, which is rarely disputed.
In the case of WWII I agree, Germany started it and carries the fault, but it is a common view that WWI was one of the main reasons/causes for WWII.
As for WWI, no single country is at fault, but all of them.
Austrian Archduke Francis Ferdinand and his wife were assassinated by a Serbian terrorist in Sarajevo, Bosnia. That was the spark that touched off World War I.
Assured of German support, Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia on July 28, 1914. But Russia came to Serbia’s aid. When Germany declared war on Russia, France (an ally in the Triple Entente) gave support to Russia. Germany then declared war on France. To make Paris more readily accessible, Germany invaded Belgium, whose neutrality had been guaranteed by Britain. So Britain declared war on Germany
Original post by asinner
In the case of WWII I agree, Germany started it and carries the fault, but it is a common view that WWI was one of the main reasons/causes for WWII.
As for WWI, no single country is at fault, but all of them.
Austrian Archduke Francis Ferdinand and his wife were assassinated by a Serbian terrorist in Sarajevo, Bosnia. That was the spark that touched off World War I.
Assured of German support, Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia on July 28, 1914. But Russia came to Serbia’s aid. When Germany declared war on Russia, France (an ally in the Triple Entente) gave support to Russia. Germany then declared war on France. To make Paris more readily accessible, Germany invaded Belgium, whose neutrality had been guaranteed by Britain. So Britain declared war on Germany
In the case of WWII I agree, Germany started it and carries the fault, but it is a common view that WWI was one of the main reasons/causes for WWII.
As for WWI, no single country is at fault, but all of them.
Austrian Archduke Francis Ferdinand and his wife were assassinated by a Serbian terrorist in Sarajevo, Bosnia. That was the spark that touched off World War I.
Assured of German support, Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia on July 28, 1914. But Russia came to Serbia’s aid. When Germany declared war on Russia, France (an ally in the Triple Entente) gave support to Russia. Germany then declared war on France. To make Paris more readily accessible, Germany invaded Belgium, whose neutrality had been guaranteed by Britain. So Britain declared war on Germany
It doesn't matter the initial spark lol. I could kill a Muslim friend it wouldn't mean I was the cause of the War on Terror. Germany had long standing aims of Weltpolitik against England, France, Austria e.g. reinsurance treaties, building a battlefleet to challenge England which caused the war. The Germans are greedy in essence.
(edited 9 years ago)
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