"Happy holidays" is bull**** Christian normativity.
I am religiously atheist and culturally jewish. I don't believe in god above, and I certainly don't believe in your little baby jesus. Furthermore, as someone who vividly remembers getting the crap kicked out of him in middle school for being the only jewish kid in the class, I can personally tell anyone who wants to say "it's just being nice! there's nothing wrong with it! it's just PC bull****." that otherization and the attempted normalization of one religious ideology has real world consequences for real people. It's not just you being nice, it's you actively participating in a system of control that is hurtful and offensive.
When you say happy holidays, what you are actually saying is "I think everyone should be celebrating Christmas right now, and I will make you celebrate it with me with a thinly veiled code word for Christmas."
This is true for two reasons. First, when you wish me happy holidays, you are only demonstrating your ignorance of the fact that the "Holiday" I am supposed to be celebrating ended roughly 2 weeks ago. If someone were to wish you happy holidays on January 9th you would look at them a little funny and wonder what they were talking about. I don't have to do that, because I know what you're actually talking about. You're talking about Christmas. Stop with the patronizing, faux-inclusive bull****.
The other reason it is true is because Hanukkah is not an important holiday. Like, at all. It is minor as all hell. In terms of important holidays Hanukkah is about as important as boxing day is. To Americans. It just happens to be almost exclusively the only Jewish holiday that Christians know about. It's almost as if this is because they trot it out to act like their Christmas celebrations are somehow secular. They sing 6 Christmas carols and 1 Hanukkah song at the kids "Holiday concert" and they go home in their nice little subaru foresters marveling at how cosmopolitan they all are.
From now on I am going to start wishing Christians "happy holidays" around Yom Kippur and then when they look at me funny explain to them that we're celebrating our important holidays together, so I was wishing them a wonderful St. Andrew's day. Thirty days in advance.
Seriously. Just stop it.
When you say happy holidays, what you are actually saying is "I think everyone should be celebrating Christmas right now, and I will make you celebrate it with me with a thinly veiled code word for Christmas."
This is true for two reasons. First, when you wish me happy holidays, you are only demonstrating your ignorance of the fact that the "Holiday" I am supposed to be celebrating ended roughly 2 weeks ago. If someone were to wish you happy holidays on January 9th you would look at them a little funny and wonder what they were talking about. I don't have to do that, because I know what you're actually talking about. You're talking about Christmas. Stop with the patronizing, faux-inclusive bull****.
The other reason it is true is because Hanukkah is not an important holiday. Like, at all. It is minor as all hell. In terms of important holidays Hanukkah is about as important as boxing day is. To Americans. It just happens to be almost exclusively the only Jewish holiday that Christians know about. It's almost as if this is because they trot it out to act like their Christmas celebrations are somehow secular. They sing 6 Christmas carols and 1 Hanukkah song at the kids "Holiday concert" and they go home in their nice little subaru foresters marveling at how cosmopolitan they all are.
From now on I am going to start wishing Christians "happy holidays" around Yom Kippur and then when they look at me funny explain to them that we're celebrating our important holidays together, so I was wishing them a wonderful St. Andrew's day. Thirty days in advance.
Seriously. Just stop it.
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No one is forcing you to take part in Christmas. If you want you can sit at home in a cold, dark room and watch breaking bad or something; we don't care what you're up to. As an atheist you should just let people get on with practicing their faith, I don't see what your problem is?
Lots of people take part in other celebrations that aren't anything to do with their own faiths: I went to a Diwali celebration one time even though I'm a Catholic. It's just about allowing other people to do their own thing, you can get involved if you want to, if you don't want to get involved then don't bother.
You also said Hanukkah is a minor holiday, so why do you care that people sing six Christmas carols and one Jewish song at celebrations? (If it's so unimportant as you suggest?). Since Christmas is one of the most important celebrations in Christianity, shouldn't you just like, you know, let Christians carry on celebrating it how they want? Seems like the sensible option to me.
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Lots of people take part in other celebrations that aren't anything to do with their own faiths: I went to a Diwali celebration one time even though I'm a Catholic. It's just about allowing other people to do their own thing, you can get involved if you want to, if you don't want to get involved then don't bother.
You also said Hanukkah is a minor holiday, so why do you care that people sing six Christmas carols and one Jewish song at celebrations? (If it's so unimportant as you suggest?). Since Christmas is one of the most important celebrations in Christianity, shouldn't you just like, you know, let Christians carry on celebrating it how they want? Seems like the sensible option to me.
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Original post by Heirophant
I am religiously atheist and culturally jewish. I don't believe in god above, and I certainly don't believe in your little baby jesus. Furthermore, as someone who vividly remembers getting the crap kicked out of him in middle school for being the only jewish kid in the class, I can personally tell anyone who wants to say "it's just being nice! there's nothing wrong with it! it's just PC bull****." that otherization and the attempted normalization of one religious ideology has real world consequences for real people. It's not just you being nice, it's you actively participating in a system of control that is hurtful and offensive.
When you say happy holidays, what you are actually saying is "I think everyone should be celebrating Christmas right now, and I will make you celebrate it with me with a thinly veiled code word for Christmas."
This is true for two reasons. First, when you wish me happy holidays, you are only demonstrating your ignorance of the fact that the "Holiday" I am supposed to be celebrating ended roughly 2 weeks ago. If someone were to wish you happy holidays on January 9th you would look at them a little funny and wonder what they were talking about. I don't have to do that, because I know what you're actually talking about. You're talking about Christmas. Stop with the patronizing, faux-inclusive bull****.
The other reason it is true is because Hanukkah is not an important holiday. Like, at all. It is minor as all hell. In terms of important holidays Hanukkah is about as important as boxing day is. To Americans. It just happens to be almost exclusively the only Jewish holiday that Christians know about. It's almost as if this is because they trot it out to act like their Christmas celebrations are somehow secular. They sing 6 Christmas carols and 1 Hanukkah song at the kids "Holiday concert" and they go home in their nice little subaru foresters marveling at how cosmopolitan they all are.
From now on I am going to start wishing Christians "happy holidays" around Yom Kippur and then when they look at me funny explain to them that we're celebrating our important holidays together, so I was wishing them a wonderful St. Andrew's day. Thirty days in advance.
Seriously. Just stop it.
When you say happy holidays, what you are actually saying is "I think everyone should be celebrating Christmas right now, and I will make you celebrate it with me with a thinly veiled code word for Christmas."
This is true for two reasons. First, when you wish me happy holidays, you are only demonstrating your ignorance of the fact that the "Holiday" I am supposed to be celebrating ended roughly 2 weeks ago. If someone were to wish you happy holidays on January 9th you would look at them a little funny and wonder what they were talking about. I don't have to do that, because I know what you're actually talking about. You're talking about Christmas. Stop with the patronizing, faux-inclusive bull****.
The other reason it is true is because Hanukkah is not an important holiday. Like, at all. It is minor as all hell. In terms of important holidays Hanukkah is about as important as boxing day is. To Americans. It just happens to be almost exclusively the only Jewish holiday that Christians know about. It's almost as if this is because they trot it out to act like their Christmas celebrations are somehow secular. They sing 6 Christmas carols and 1 Hanukkah song at the kids "Holiday concert" and they go home in their nice little subaru foresters marveling at how cosmopolitan they all are.
From now on I am going to start wishing Christians "happy holidays" around Yom Kippur and then when they look at me funny explain to them that we're celebrating our important holidays together, so I was wishing them a wonderful St. Andrew's day. Thirty days in advance.
Seriously. Just stop it.
Well I happen to think that "Happy Holidays" instead of Merry Christmas is just stupid political correctness and I hope that the UK does not adapt this American habit. I have seen some American commercials that say "This year we had a really good year and am really positive so we are going to say Merry Christmas" not Happy Holidays. So yes in majority Christian country it is just stupid political correctness.
You seem angry about the pointlessness of the political correctness which is a good reasons to be annoyed.
But you should expect to be given the salutations that are the of the majority in any society.
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Atheism isn't a religion
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Atheism isn't a religion
Yeh it is. You believe there is no god with no scientific evidence.
Original post by Snagprophet
Yeh it is. You believe there is no god with no scientific evidence.
No, atheism is a lack of belief, not an active disbelief, the overwhelming majority of atheists are agnostic atheists.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
No, atheism is a lack of belief, not an active disbelief, the overwhelming majority of atheists are agnostic atheists.
You believe there is no god.
Original post by Snagprophet
You believe there is no god.
No, atheists don't. How about you ask this question on the Atheist Society and see the responses they give you
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
No, atheists don't. How about you ask this question on the Atheist Society and see the responses they give you
You have faith there is no god
Original post by Snagprophet
You have faith there is no god
No, atheists simply lack a belief in God.
PS: I'm not an atheist.
Original post by Heirophant
I am religiously atheist and culturally jewish. I don't believe in god above, and I certainly don't believe in your little baby jesus. Furthermore, as someone who vividly remembers getting the crap kicked out of him in middle school for being the only jewish kid in the class, I can personally tell anyone who wants to say "it's just being nice! there's nothing wrong with it! it's just PC bull****." that otherization and the attempted normalization of one religious ideology has real world consequences for real people. It's not just you being nice, it's you actively participating in a system of control that is hurtful and offensive.
When you say happy holidays, what you are actually saying is "I think everyone should be celebrating Christmas right now, and I will make you celebrate it with me with a thinly veiled code word for Christmas."
This is true for two reasons. First, when you wish me happy holidays, you are only demonstrating your ignorance of the fact that the "Holiday" I am supposed to be celebrating ended roughly 2 weeks ago. If someone were to wish you happy holidays on January 9th you would look at them a little funny and wonder what they were talking about. I don't have to do that, because I know what you're actually talking about. You're talking about Christmas. Stop with the patronizing, faux-inclusive bull****.
The other reason it is true is because Hanukkah is not an important holiday. Like, at all. It is minor as all hell. In terms of important holidays Hanukkah is about as important as boxing day is. To Americans. It just happens to be almost exclusively the only Jewish holiday that Christians know about. It's almost as if this is because they trot it out to act like their Christmas celebrations are somehow secular. They sing 6 Christmas carols and 1 Hanukkah song at the kids "Holiday concert" and they go home in their nice little subaru foresters marveling at how cosmopolitan they all are.
From now on I am going to start wishing Christians "happy holidays" around Yom Kippur and then when they look at me funny explain to them that we're celebrating our important holidays together, so I was wishing them a wonderful St. Andrew's day. Thirty days in advance.
Seriously. Just stop it.
When you say happy holidays, what you are actually saying is "I think everyone should be celebrating Christmas right now, and I will make you celebrate it with me with a thinly veiled code word for Christmas."
This is true for two reasons. First, when you wish me happy holidays, you are only demonstrating your ignorance of the fact that the "Holiday" I am supposed to be celebrating ended roughly 2 weeks ago. If someone were to wish you happy holidays on January 9th you would look at them a little funny and wonder what they were talking about. I don't have to do that, because I know what you're actually talking about. You're talking about Christmas. Stop with the patronizing, faux-inclusive bull****.
The other reason it is true is because Hanukkah is not an important holiday. Like, at all. It is minor as all hell. In terms of important holidays Hanukkah is about as important as boxing day is. To Americans. It just happens to be almost exclusively the only Jewish holiday that Christians know about. It's almost as if this is because they trot it out to act like their Christmas celebrations are somehow secular. They sing 6 Christmas carols and 1 Hanukkah song at the kids "Holiday concert" and they go home in their nice little subaru foresters marveling at how cosmopolitan they all are.
From now on I am going to start wishing Christians "happy holidays" around Yom Kippur and then when they look at me funny explain to them that we're celebrating our important holidays together, so I was wishing them a wonderful St. Andrew's day. Thirty days in advance.
Seriously. Just stop it.
i am a Christian and know several feasts:
Rosh HaShanah
SEPT. 24 - 26 2014
Yom Kippur
OCT. 3 - 4 2014
Sukkot
OCT. 8 - 15 2014
Simchat Torah
OCT. 15 - 16 2014
Hanukkah
DEC. 16 - 24 2014
Tu BiSh'vat
FEB. 3 - 4 2015
Purim
MAR. 4 - 5 2015
Passover
APR. 3 - 10 2015
Yom HaShoah
APR. 15 - 16 2015
Yom HaZikaron & Yom HaAtzmaut
APR. 21 - 23 2015
Lag BaOmer
MAY 6 - 7 2015
Shavuot
MAY 23 - 24 2015
Tishah B'Av
JUL. 25 - 26 2015
Selichot
SEPT. 5 2015
OK i cheated a bit but i knew most of them
also i do not drive a Forester
have a great time this week whatever you wish to call it.
May I ask what you are then as you seem to really hate theism
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Original post by KingCorneliusIII
Why aren't you quoting me?
No, I don't hate theism, I simply debate without those who claim to have definitive and objective proof for God's existence.
Original post by Snagprophet
You have faith there is no god
I'm not entirely convinced that you're not just pulling Planta's leg here, but anyway: I am an atheist. My atheism means that I lack an active belief in god. I could also actively believe that there cannot be a god (for whatever reason, probability, science, purely emotional eg hatred of organised religion, etc), but that wouldn't make me 'more of' an atheist or anything like that. It is simply the fact that I do not actively believe in a god that means I am an atheist.
Original post by Snagprophet
You have faith there is no god
Lol what a stupid thing to say. Athiests have no faith whatsoever
Original post by Snagprophet
You believe there is no god.
Original post by Snagprophet
You have faith there is no god
Nah, he doesn't.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Why aren't you quoting me?
No, I don't hate theism, I simply debate without those who claim to have definitive and objective proof for God's existence.
No, I don't hate theism, I simply debate without those who claim to have definitive and objective proof for God's existence.
Sorry. But may I ask, is anyone in your family religious as I know someone similar who is agnostic and argues strongly for proof of God but goes to church on occasions such as Christmas as his family is religious.
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Original post by Snagprophet
You have faith there is no god
It's not a religion in the sense that others are called religions.
Atheism has far less religious meaning in its own right then the importance of, say, Star Wars or the TV show Friends.
Atheism basically says God is not sufficiently proven. You can point to physical or mental phenemonon but you don't have a proof that God made them.
Unlike, say, Star Wars or Friends, atheism doesn't necessarily say that being atheist should make you a) try to be more of anything in your life
nor b) try to be less of anything in your life.
When an atheist does think about a best way for OTHER people to live their life (or a best way to live their OWN life), they hopefully realise that, like Star Wars or Friends (or, arguably, a religion) what they are trying to do is create a community or fanbase - whether that's a community of one if they're deliberately a loner who gains a thrill from having an original interest that no others or only a few have - or a community of a few carefully chosen people or a community of many.
Some say that a higher percentage of people employed in intellectual occupations tend to be atheists.
Well firstly I must put across an oppostite view which is that might be the case for an 'everyday' genius if one can be called that but that some (not all) 'supergeniuses' might be more inclined to believe in God- or at least to want to believe in God. If genius is something that they wish to preserve - or something that they do not feel has been properly rewardded in this life- then of course they are going to want an afterlife.
Fortunately, some of those also realise that does not, in itself, mean that God does not exist. All it means that, on AVERAGE, people who have the WILL, MEANS, OPPORTUNITY and SUPPORT to end up employed in intellectual occupations tend to call themselves atheists, who might allow that 'I don't or can't know whether or not God exists' HOWEVER, going beyond mere agnosticism, the combination of that lack of being able to know and the evidence of the world leads them to BELIEVE that there is no God.
A belief that, unless other evidence arises, they could argue it is reasonable to say is consistent with other long held beliefs such as that it will be relatively safe to leave the house in a morning because gravity will not suddenly cease to exist. Therefore atheism becomes less like a belief and more like a 'this is how it is. I'm aware of gravity existing every day and I'm aware of not experiencing unicorns nor God'.
If you say atheism is a faith then you must also say that not belieivng in a flying teapot in the sky is a faith and that leaving the house on a morning and not expecting once friendly seeming people to kill you is a faith.
And, sadly, that's exactly what life is. The more faith we seem to have in others, the more likely they seem to have in us.
But the more faith we have in God the more faith God has in us is a leap that, whilst many do hold it to be a true,, for an atheist might as well be a trip in to madness- or at least a childhood regression, a naive, harmless and charming thought of imaginary friends.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by KingCorneliusIII
Sorry. But may I ask, is anyone in your family religious as I know someone similar who is agnostic and argues strongly for proof of God but goes to church on occasions such as Christmas as his family is religious.
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Yes, my family is Catholic although in practice it's really only my mum who is quite devoted to it.
Christmas isn't even a religious holiday anymore. The majority if people who celebrate it aren't Christians.
No one means anything malicious by saying 'happy holidays' or by wishing you a merry Christmas. It's supposed to be a nice thing. Yeah, it might not take into account that not everyone celebrates Christmas, but people say a lot of things like that. Again, it's not a spiteful thing. Fact is, most people in the UK /do/ celebrate Christmas, so it's almost reflexive to say things like 'happy holidays'
If someone wished by a happy Diwali or something I wouldn't take offense or feel like they were trying to convert me or something. I'd take it as someone being pleasant and them hoping I have a nice day.
No one means anything malicious by saying 'happy holidays' or by wishing you a merry Christmas. It's supposed to be a nice thing. Yeah, it might not take into account that not everyone celebrates Christmas, but people say a lot of things like that. Again, it's not a spiteful thing. Fact is, most people in the UK /do/ celebrate Christmas, so it's almost reflexive to say things like 'happy holidays'
If someone wished by a happy Diwali or something I wouldn't take offense or feel like they were trying to convert me or something. I'd take it as someone being pleasant and them hoping I have a nice day.
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