The Student Room Group

Foreign graduates: thanks for the money, now get out of our country?

The Home secretary is suggesting that under the next tory government non EU foreign students will be kicked out promptly after graduating, possibly with the unis held responsible for making sure they leave - currently they are allowed 4 months to find a skilled job.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/Politics/article1498758.ece

Seems to me to be targetting the wrong sort of migrants first in pursuit of a misguided net migration target, this will make UK and its unis appear less friendly to foreign students and tbh our HEIs need their money.

The well advertised benefit to the country of migration arise from skilled immigration, but rather than crack down on unskilled chain migration by third world marriage of convenience it's proposed we kick graduates out instead.

What do you think?

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I like foreign students. They're so much more hardworking than the brits.
It will go down well with the average Tory/UKIP voter.

But kicking out skilled and well qualified young people seems like a dumb thing to do.
Reply 3
It's a stupid policy. It's probably one of the few immigrant groups that we should be encouraging greater numbers of.
Actually I agree with this. You may think I am a BNP Nazi type for but keeping these professionals in the country during a Job shortage only benefits one group of people: Owners of the means of production.

In China foreigners are only allowed to take jobs which a Chinese person cannot do. For example English teachers, Corporate associates and jobs needing creative disciplines. They invest in their own people instead of looking else where for talent at the lowest price. This benefits the people rather than organisations who don't want to contribute to the prosperity of the nation.

This is what Britain has became. We have became a nation which puts the welfare of corporations above the welfare of the people.

And corporations could very well leave Britain but where are they going to go? London is a key financial trade hub within its timezone. It has been for hundreds of years. Is there going to be a huge flock to Senegal or Lisbon? Highly unlikely. It would take a nuclear attack on London to do that.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 5
Original post by illegaltobepoor
Actually I agree with this. You may think I am a BNP Nazi type for but keeping these professionals in the country during a Job shortage only benefits one group of people: Owners of the means of production.

In China foreigners are only allowed to take jobs which a Chinese person cannot do. For example English teachers, Corporate associates and jobs needing creative disciplines. They invest in their own people instead of looking else where for talent at the lowest price. This benefits the people rather than organisations who don't want to contribute to the prosperity of the nation.

This is what Britain has became. We have became a nation which puts the welfare of corporations above the welfare of the people.

And corporations could very well leave Britain but where are they going to go? London is a key financial trade hub within its timezone. It has been for hundreds of years. Is there going to be a huge flock to Senegal or Lisbon? Highly unlikely. It would take a nuclear attack on London to do that.


So your argument is that this policy would be a good idea because firms are choosing to higher foreign graduates when there are British ones who could do it, but aren't getting the opportunities?

It's illogical; foreign graduates, unlike low skilled foreign immigrants, won't work for a discount. They're perfectly substitutable between British grads - the reason that they're being hired is either (a) there actually is a shortage or (b) the foreign grads are better.

What such a policy will do will reduce the quality of students at British universities (which harms them), and subsequently, the quality of graduates from British universities, which hurts everybody.

You make the incredibly narrow minded argument that it will only hurt corporations, yet you ignore the fact that the vast majority of graduates go to work in the public sector, (double the number that work in the next largest industry) - so such a policy will hit the NHS, hospitals, schools etc the hardest, and by extension, the public. But, I suppose that your argument of 'let's inflict lots of pain on everybody so we can hurt corporations a bit' works too...
Completely irrational policy.

Not only are those the type of skilled foreign workers that would be useful, but also it will stop foreign students actually wanting to come here and they will look to go to our rival countries' HE systems.

This is bad news for our universities and bad news for our businesses, it's not a policy that's being brought in to benefit the country it is purely being brought in to try and improve migration figures and help the Conservative party politically against UKIP by trying to appease the anti-immigration right-wing.

Politics in the UK has come to a sad state, where our government is actually making decisions that will have a negative impact on the UK economy just to try and outflank UKIP politically.
Reply 7
This policy reminds me of the 'we need to restrict the amount of foreigners in the Premier League' argument, and I think the outcomes would be similar - restricting foreign players would mean we wouldn't get to see the likes of Aguero, Costa, Hazard etc which would harm the overall quality of English football as a product for everybody. Restrict foreign graduates, and you harm the quality of the British workforce and British universities, and that hurts everybody.
I think we have to take a step back and ask some questions:-

(a) Are we wanting these immigrants for the UK economy in the same way that we were wanting bus conductors from Jamaica in 1955?

(b) If so why? Why are they better than our unemployed graduates?

(c) If we are not wanting them for our economy but need to take them in order that they study here and contribute to our university sector, then in relaity we are selling visas not degrees. Is the price high enough?
I don't see anything wrong with this - they should get in the immigration line just like everybody else. it would be appreciated if they are fulfilling (temporarily whenever possible) unused employment places, but they can't just expect to slip into the country through this back door - coming here for educational reasons isn't being allowed to reside here. they're different things.

weirdly enough, I thought this was *already* the policy we had in this country, but surprise surprise...
Stupid policy IMO.
Not trying to sound disrespectful, but if foreigners are to be kicked out even after graduating, then Spain would be in its complete right to kick out every Brit coming here because of the nice weather. 20% of the population where I live is British, and they can be very loud and tend to spend a lot of their free time drunk.
Original post by The Clockwork Apple
Stupid policy IMO.
Not trying to sound disrespectful, but if foreigners are to be kicked out even after graduating, then Spain would be in its complete right to kick out every Brit coming here because of the nice weather. 20% of the population where I live is British, and they can be very loud and tend to spend a lot of their free time drunk.


Spain has no interest kicking out people who are economically inactive, do not have dependent children, and spend money earned abroad in their country. This is not something that has appeared because of the EU; in the fascist time Spain was notorious as a retirement destination for British gangsters it refused to extradite.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Joinedup
The Home secretary is suggesting that under the next tory government non EU foreign students will be kicked out promptly after graduating, possibly with the unis held responsible for making sure they leave - currently they are allowed 4 months to find a skilled job.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/Politics/article1498758.ece

Seems to me to be targetting the wrong sort of migrants first in pursuit of a misguided net migration target, this will make UK and its unis appear less friendly to foreign students and tbh our HEIs need their money.

The well advertised benefit to the country of migration arise from skilled immigration, but rather than crack down on unskilled chain migration by third world marriage of convenience it's proposed we kick graduates out instead.

What do you think?

Actually, unless they can get a job within 4 months, it is very unlikely that this policy change would affect the foreign students significantly.
So far the policy which I stated is working for China very well. You can whine all you like but results are results.
Original post by FDR
So your argument is that this policy would be a good idea because firms are choosing to higher foreign graduates when there are British ones who could do it, but aren't getting the opportunities?

It's illogical; foreign graduates, unlike low skilled foreign immigrants, won't work for a discount. They're perfectly substitutable between British grads - the reason that they're being hired is either (a) there actually is a shortage or (b) the foreign grads are better.

What such a policy will do will reduce the quality of students at British universities (which harms them), and subsequently, the quality of graduates from British universities, which hurts everybody.

You make the incredibly narrow minded argument that it will only hurt corporations, yet you ignore the fact that the vast majority of graduates go to work in the public sector, (double the number that work in the next largest industry) - so such a policy will hit the NHS, hospitals, schools etc the hardest, and by extension, the public. But, I suppose that your argument of 'let's inflict lots of pain on everybody so we can hurt corporations a bit' works too...


Oh, foreign students will work fir a discount because a UK work visa is worth its weight in gold. They'll work and work and work until they get residency because often the opportunities we take for granted here and often moan about are a dream to the vast majority of the population.
Reply 15
Original post by 1drowssap
Actually, unless they can get a job within 4 months, it is very unlikely that this policy change would affect the foreign students significantly.


Perhaps I meet an unrepresentative sample - afaik non eu undergrad students are often are here on their parents dime want to go straight home to get gravy-trained into a job by their families anyway.

I was assuming some of them would be valuable and probably offered jobs in the UK immediately, now they've got to leave the country and reapply. I can't really see any point having foreign graduates hanging around for months working cash in hand in chipshops, but if it's legal to employ them in the UK why force them out even if they've got a job lined up?
Moronic policy. This will leave us with an even greater 'brain drain'.
Original post by nebelbon
Moronic policy. This will leave us with an even greater 'brain drain'.


So the solution to a "brain drain" in this country is to plug the gap, so to speak, with foreign students? Shouldn't we be investing more in education and training so that the inhabitants of Britain can fill the jobs immigrants take? In other words, addressing the root cause of the problem.
Original post by plasmaman
So the solution to a "brain drain" in this country is to plug the gap, so to speak, with foreign students? Shouldn't we be investing more in education and training so that the inhabitants of Britain can fill the jobs immigrants take? In other words, addressing the root cause of the problem.


I didn't say that. The gap will become bigger if we banish foreign students. We do need to invest more money into students from our country; but we shouldn't banish the foreign students, it doesn't make any sense.
Original post by Quantex
It will go down well with the average Tory/UKIP voter.

But kicking out skilled and well qualified young people seems like a dumb thing to do.


Not really. Every tory or UKIP voter I've talked to thinks it's dumb, as do I.

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