Should I do a Phd or stay in my job?
Hello
I thought i'd give you the run down of my situation and ask you what you think I should do.
I graduate in January with a MSc with Distinction in Mechanical Engineering. I got a high 2.1 Beng in the same subject at Swansea uni.
I have just recently landed a job at Jaguar Land Rover as a Project Engineer in for their glass. It pretty good pay.
I'm the type of person who loves being at the cutting edge, always wanting to put my mind to something and create something which has never been done before.
In my current job, where I have been for 1 months its slightly boring. I have nothing which stimulates my intellectually, I just sit there and file paperwork essentially, in order to get stuff done and sent through. I send email to suppliers etc.
Whilst this is great pay, its not what i want to be doing. People have told me i should stay with it because its good pay and 'why would you want to work harder for nothing'. But i enjoy doing things new and revolutionary. But at the same time, I am not sure i would be suited to the life of academia, and i would prefer to be creating new technology for a company.
Im interested in CFD, so a Phd in that would be interesting to me. Or perhaps in engine technology, or 3d priniting on a large scale.
Perhaps i could transfer around the company to something i find more interesting, not sure how that would work.
So, to summaries the fors and against, i have the following:
For:
1. I get set my mind on something for the next 3 years, and potentially be employed by a company for my skills gained in the Phd.
2. I get to be doing more interesting things throughout my career?
3. I got to be a Doctor.
4. I get to be a world leader in something, even if its something no one else cares about.
5. Potential to drop into academia.
Against:
1. I will effectively take a pay cut to £14K for the next three years.
2. I have to be on the ball, could be very stressed.
3. The 3 years away may not make up for the 3 years worth of experience in the industry. I may not start on a salary higher than i am now on.
4. Effectively closing some doors to companies that dont value a Phd and see it as a higher cost employee with not much benefit.
5. Will need to be more picky about my job applications to ensure the company uses me properly.
Ive probably stated all the options, but opinions would be nice.
Thanks
I thought i'd give you the run down of my situation and ask you what you think I should do.
I graduate in January with a MSc with Distinction in Mechanical Engineering. I got a high 2.1 Beng in the same subject at Swansea uni.
I have just recently landed a job at Jaguar Land Rover as a Project Engineer in for their glass. It pretty good pay.
I'm the type of person who loves being at the cutting edge, always wanting to put my mind to something and create something which has never been done before.
In my current job, where I have been for 1 months its slightly boring. I have nothing which stimulates my intellectually, I just sit there and file paperwork essentially, in order to get stuff done and sent through. I send email to suppliers etc.
Whilst this is great pay, its not what i want to be doing. People have told me i should stay with it because its good pay and 'why would you want to work harder for nothing'. But i enjoy doing things new and revolutionary. But at the same time, I am not sure i would be suited to the life of academia, and i would prefer to be creating new technology for a company.
Im interested in CFD, so a Phd in that would be interesting to me. Or perhaps in engine technology, or 3d priniting on a large scale.
Perhaps i could transfer around the company to something i find more interesting, not sure how that would work.
So, to summaries the fors and against, i have the following:
For:
1. I get set my mind on something for the next 3 years, and potentially be employed by a company for my skills gained in the Phd.
2. I get to be doing more interesting things throughout my career?
3. I got to be a Doctor.
4. I get to be a world leader in something, even if its something no one else cares about.
5. Potential to drop into academia.
Against:
1. I will effectively take a pay cut to £14K for the next three years.
2. I have to be on the ball, could be very stressed.
3. The 3 years away may not make up for the 3 years worth of experience in the industry. I may not start on a salary higher than i am now on.
4. Effectively closing some doors to companies that dont value a Phd and see it as a higher cost employee with not much benefit.
5. Will need to be more picky about my job applications to ensure the company uses me properly.
Ive probably stated all the options, but opinions would be nice.
Thanks
(edited 9 years ago)
As someone who is nearing the end of my PhD (in a different field), I would advise you not to do a PhD unless you want to stay in academia or really NEED it to advance in your career.
I don't know that much about engineering, but I would have thought you would be much better off working and gaining experience. You have only been in your job a month, which isn't that long really. Will you be doing the same thing all the time, or is it likely that your role will change a bit once you have been there for a bit longer?
If you really want to stimulate yourself intellectually, you have other options. Have you had a look at the MOOCs available? There are some really good courses out there which you could do in your spare time. You could also keep up with the academic literature in your field so you are up to speed with the cutting edge research going on.
Something else to remember is that you don't NEED to do a PhD right away. You could work for a few years and then do a PhD if you really want to. You may even find a company who is willing to pay for you to do a PhD while you are working for them.
I don't know that much about engineering, but I would have thought you would be much better off working and gaining experience. You have only been in your job a month, which isn't that long really. Will you be doing the same thing all the time, or is it likely that your role will change a bit once you have been there for a bit longer?
If you really want to stimulate yourself intellectually, you have other options. Have you had a look at the MOOCs available? There are some really good courses out there which you could do in your spare time. You could also keep up with the academic literature in your field so you are up to speed with the cutting edge research going on.
Something else to remember is that you don't NEED to do a PhD right away. You could work for a few years and then do a PhD if you really want to. You may even find a company who is willing to pay for you to do a PhD while you are working for them.
Original post by steve1991
Hello
I thought i'd give you the run down of my situation and ask you what you think I should do.
I graduate in January with a MSc with Distinction in Mechanical Engineering. I got a high 2.1 Beng in the same subject at Swansea uni.
I have just recently landed a job at Jaguar Land Rover as a Project Engineer in for their glass. It pretty good pay.
I'm the type of person who loves being at the cutting edge, always wanting to put my mind to something and create something which has never been done before.
In my current job, where I have been for 1 months its slightly boring. I have nothing which stimulates my intellectually, I just sit there and file paperwork essentially, in order to get stuff done and sent through. I send email to suppliers etc.
Whilst this is great pay, its not what i want to be doing. People have told me i should stay with it because its good pay and 'why would you want to work harder for nothing'. But i enjoy doing things new and revolutionary. But at the same time, I am not sure i would be suited to the life of academia, and i would prefer to be creating new technology for a company.
Im interested in CFD, so a Phd in that would be interesting to me. Or perhaps in engine technology, or 3d priniting on a large scale.
Perhaps i could transfer around the company to something i find more interesting, not sure how that would work.
So, to summaries the fors and against, i have the following:
For:
1. I get set my mind on something for the next 3 years, and potentially be employed by a company for my skills gained in the Phd.
2. I get to be doing more interesting things throughout my career?
3. I got to be a Doctor.
4. I get to be a world leader in something, even if its something no one else cares about.
5. Potential to drop into academia.
Against:
1. I will effectively take a pay cut to £14K for the next three years.
2. I have to be on the ball, could be very stressed.
3. The 3 years away may not make up for the 3 years worth of experience in the industry. I may not start on a salary higher than i am now on.
4. Effectively closing some doors to companies that dont value a Phd and see it as a higher cost employee with not much benefit.
5. Will need to be more picky about my job applications to ensure the company uses me properly.
Ive probably stated all the options, but opinions would be nice.
Thanks
I thought i'd give you the run down of my situation and ask you what you think I should do.
I graduate in January with a MSc with Distinction in Mechanical Engineering. I got a high 2.1 Beng in the same subject at Swansea uni.
I have just recently landed a job at Jaguar Land Rover as a Project Engineer in for their glass. It pretty good pay.
I'm the type of person who loves being at the cutting edge, always wanting to put my mind to something and create something which has never been done before.
In my current job, where I have been for 1 months its slightly boring. I have nothing which stimulates my intellectually, I just sit there and file paperwork essentially, in order to get stuff done and sent through. I send email to suppliers etc.
Whilst this is great pay, its not what i want to be doing. People have told me i should stay with it because its good pay and 'why would you want to work harder for nothing'. But i enjoy doing things new and revolutionary. But at the same time, I am not sure i would be suited to the life of academia, and i would prefer to be creating new technology for a company.
Im interested in CFD, so a Phd in that would be interesting to me. Or perhaps in engine technology, or 3d priniting on a large scale.
Perhaps i could transfer around the company to something i find more interesting, not sure how that would work.
So, to summaries the fors and against, i have the following:
For:
1. I get set my mind on something for the next 3 years, and potentially be employed by a company for my skills gained in the Phd.
2. I get to be doing more interesting things throughout my career?
3. I got to be a Doctor.
4. I get to be a world leader in something, even if its something no one else cares about.
5. Potential to drop into academia.
Against:
1. I will effectively take a pay cut to £14K for the next three years.
2. I have to be on the ball, could be very stressed.
3. The 3 years away may not make up for the 3 years worth of experience in the industry. I may not start on a salary higher than i am now on.
4. Effectively closing some doors to companies that dont value a Phd and see it as a higher cost employee with not much benefit.
5. Will need to be more picky about my job applications to ensure the company uses me properly.
Ive probably stated all the options, but opinions would be nice.
Thanks
From what you've said, a project engineer seems to be almost diametrically opposite to the type of engineer you want to be. As a project engineer, you're highly unlikely to ever be at the cutting edge, using the latest technology, coming up with new designs or ideas. Some people like being a project engineer because they like to see everything that's being done, the whole project, whereas others want to be doing design work, or analysis or R&D, because they like the challenge from it, the intellectual stimulation. I think you're the latter, and may never feel satisfied with a job as a project engineer.
Like yourself, my first engineering job out of university was a very much non-technical one, and I had similar feelings to yourself.
A PhD isn't your only option if you merely want something a lot more technical. Plenty of engineering graduates go straight into highly technical or R&D type jobs with just their undergraduate degree. A PhD is far from a necessity.
I think your first port of call would be to look into transferring into a position that better suits your needs at your current company. A PhD is a massive commitment and may be completely overkill.
However, if you're sure you want to do a PhD, then I would advise doing it sooner rather than later, because as a project engineer you're soon going to be out of the way of doing maths, equations and the like and it'll be harder to get back into academia.
So in short, I think you should first look into transferring into a more technical role at your current company. Then I think you should look into more technical roles at other companies, before considering a PhD. And I think you should do this quite soon, as the longer you spend as a project engineer, the harder it's going to be to move into something more technical.
Thank you for all the information.
Both posts have been helpful.
I feel like you maybe right about not doing a Phd. To the last poster 'Smack', thanks for the advice, i might talk to my boss about it when i get back in january, see if I can move to a more technical role.
How long did you leave it before you asked to be transferred to a more technical job? Or did you leave to find work elsewhere. You've made me think that i should definitely make the change sooner rather than later, because the longer i leave it, the less technical i look on my CV.
The thing is I have never met my boss yet. Ive been here for a month, but hes off till January, and asking him as soon as im back does not look very good. I'm a contractor, so he can easily get rid of me when ever, and my contract is due to be 'renewed' in march. I dont want him to think im not good for the job, by asking to go elsewhere in the company might put him off me altogether. How long do you think I should stick it out before I have a conversation with my boss about this?
Perhaps transferring to a technical role inside the company as a contractor maybe a better 'risk free' way for the company to try me out. In which case, when should I ask?
What sort of time period in a Project Engineering role would stop me from progressing into technical role? Are we talking 3 months 6 months or a few years?
Thanks Smack
Both posts have been helpful.
I feel like you maybe right about not doing a Phd. To the last poster 'Smack', thanks for the advice, i might talk to my boss about it when i get back in january, see if I can move to a more technical role.
How long did you leave it before you asked to be transferred to a more technical job? Or did you leave to find work elsewhere. You've made me think that i should definitely make the change sooner rather than later, because the longer i leave it, the less technical i look on my CV.
The thing is I have never met my boss yet. Ive been here for a month, but hes off till January, and asking him as soon as im back does not look very good. I'm a contractor, so he can easily get rid of me when ever, and my contract is due to be 'renewed' in march. I dont want him to think im not good for the job, by asking to go elsewhere in the company might put him off me altogether. How long do you think I should stick it out before I have a conversation with my boss about this?
Perhaps transferring to a technical role inside the company as a contractor maybe a better 'risk free' way for the company to try me out. In which case, when should I ask?
What sort of time period in a Project Engineering role would stop me from progressing into technical role? Are we talking 3 months 6 months or a few years?
Thanks Smack
(edited 9 years ago)
I always had the intention of moving into a more technical role, but in the end I went to another company as the company I was with weren't doing too well at the time.
Would your status as a contractor not complicate things with regards to moving roles?
If you're still a project engineer in a few years time, then you might find it more difficult to move into a design or R&D engineer job, but 3-6 months is nothing. But if you want to another job, then I'd look into it as soon as possible.
Would your status as a contractor not complicate things with regards to moving roles?
If you're still a project engineer in a few years time, then you might find it more difficult to move into a design or R&D engineer job, but 3-6 months is nothing. But if you want to another job, then I'd look into it as soon as possible.
The advice you have already received looks good to me. I did economics, not engineering, then went on to do a PhD. This is essential in academia where I worked - and also in the UN where I spent some time. The only advantage I have ever received outside of these two types of work is that I once got upgraded on holiday, possibly because the "Dr" sounded as if I could treat anyone falling sick!
Unless you crave being a Dr. then in your line of work the doctorate would probably not help - and for all I know could be a disadvantage if some hiring body decided that you were over-qualified for a post that you really wanted. I have seen that happen in my field but hopefully engineers are more sensible people.
Unless you crave being a Dr. then in your line of work the doctorate would probably not help - and for all I know could be a disadvantage if some hiring body decided that you were over-qualified for a post that you really wanted. I have seen that happen in my field but hopefully engineers are more sensible people.
There are very few jobs that require a PhD and your chances of getting one straight out of Uni are remote.
In many cases a young person having a PhD makes employers back off - they wont look at you for any 'graduate' jobs and you may make yourself effectively unemployable.
All careers start at the bottom, whether you have done postgrad or not. You need to put in the spade work of actually building a CV and developing a career. This does not happen by magic or overnight. So my suggestion to you is stay where you are, put some effort and commitment into that job and stop thinking 'I'm too good for this'. In 6 months time, when you have impressed your current employers, look around for a better job. And then another, and another .....
PS. You wont be a 'world leader' in anything. You will have written 80,000+ words on a very niche area that no-one else is interested in. And still have no usable job skills.
In many cases a young person having a PhD makes employers back off - they wont look at you for any 'graduate' jobs and you may make yourself effectively unemployable.
All careers start at the bottom, whether you have done postgrad or not. You need to put in the spade work of actually building a CV and developing a career. This does not happen by magic or overnight. So my suggestion to you is stay where you are, put some effort and commitment into that job and stop thinking 'I'm too good for this'. In 6 months time, when you have impressed your current employers, look around for a better job. And then another, and another .....
PS. You wont be a 'world leader' in anything. You will have written 80,000+ words on a very niche area that no-one else is interested in. And still have no usable job skills.
(edited 9 years ago)
Hello
Thank you for all the advice.
As a contractor apparently its easier to move around the company. But I think that's only if you have a skill under your belt as a contractor. So for example if your skill is needed in other areas of the company then you can move around and just apply it to what ever field.
With me, I have no skills besides being a keen graduate. I will just have to talk to my boss and see what he says. He seems like a decent guy, I remember him saying during the interview that he would see it as a failure if I was to leave after a few months. So i'm guessing he wants me in for the long run, which makes sense as a graduate, he isnt really gaining anything straight away.
To 'returnmigrant', I am living in shared accomodation with a girl who did a phd in aersopace engineering, and shes working as a graduate in her phd subject area for the same company as me. She went the conventional graduate route, but it does sound like shes doing stuff more intellectually interesting than me, adding to my thoughts about doing a phd. She did a Phd in CFD, and now works in CFD for the aero of the vehicles.
The answer is clear though, I should wait for a few months, see how things go.
Thanks
Thank you for all the advice.
As a contractor apparently its easier to move around the company. But I think that's only if you have a skill under your belt as a contractor. So for example if your skill is needed in other areas of the company then you can move around and just apply it to what ever field.
With me, I have no skills besides being a keen graduate. I will just have to talk to my boss and see what he says. He seems like a decent guy, I remember him saying during the interview that he would see it as a failure if I was to leave after a few months. So i'm guessing he wants me in for the long run, which makes sense as a graduate, he isnt really gaining anything straight away.
To 'returnmigrant', I am living in shared accomodation with a girl who did a phd in aersopace engineering, and shes working as a graduate in her phd subject area for the same company as me. She went the conventional graduate route, but it does sound like shes doing stuff more intellectually interesting than me, adding to my thoughts about doing a phd. She did a Phd in CFD, and now works in CFD for the aero of the vehicles.
The answer is clear though, I should wait for a few months, see how things go.
Thanks
I've always found academia much more interesting and rewarding than employment overall.
I think it's worth staying in work to save money and to prove to yourself and others that you can do it (say sticking at a job for a year or so) but yeah, being happy is mega important and if you yearn to do a PhD then I can totally empathise with that.
I think it's worth staying in work to save money and to prove to yourself and others that you can do it (say sticking at a job for a year or so) but yeah, being happy is mega important and if you yearn to do a PhD then I can totally empathise with that.
Original post by returnmigrant
And still have no usable job skills.
I don't agree with not having any usable job skills after doing a PhD. I have a lot of skills from doing my PhD that are useful in the working world - confident presentation skills, scientific writing & editing, independent working ethic, knowledge of statistics and various programming languages, experience working with large datasets amongst other things. PhD students in my department are treated like full time staff members, so we have to work full time hours and have the same holiday entitlement as the other staff. I can't just decide I don't fancy going in to uni - I have to book the time off.
Just to add, I did work a proper job between my undergrad and PhD, so I do have experience of working.
Original post by fluffyowl
I don't agree with not having any usable job skills after doing a PhD. I have a lot of skills from doing my PhD that are useful in the working world - confident presentation skills, scientific writing & editing, independent working ethic, knowledge of statistics and various programming languages, experience working with large datasets amongst other things. PhD students in my department are treated like full time staff members, so we have to work full time hours and have the same holiday entitlement as the other staff. I can't just decide I don't fancy going in to uni - I have to book the time off.
Just to add, I did work a proper job between my undergrad and PhD, so I do have experience of working.
Just to add, I did work a proper job between my undergrad and PhD, so I do have experience of working.
What made you change your mind to do a Phd, and what profession?
Also, how long were you working?
Original post by steve1991
What made you change your mind to do a Phd, and what profession?
Also, how long were you working?
Also, how long were you working?
I was only working for 6 months. It was an office job that was supposed to be just for a month or 2 while I was looking for something more related to my field, but they kept me on longer because they were impressed with my work ethic. I applied for a PhD that interested me while I was working to start in Oct 2011, but I didn't get it. However, the supervisor got funding for another one on a similar topic which I was offered without another interview and started in Jan 2012. If I hadn't got the PhD I am doing, I would have carried on in that office job until something else came along that was more interesting!
Tbh, I only did a PhD because I wasn't sure what else to do in my field. I am in the meteorology/climatology field, but realised I hated forecasting whilst I was doing my undergrad. Most of the other jobs in my field are research ones that require a PhD. I have now realised I don't really enjoy the writing part of research, so looking to do something outside of academia. Hopefully a job will come up at the Met Office or something similar, but not holding out much hope.
Hi
Thanks for your replies.
Well, its been 6 months, im in the same project engineering postion and the stress is killing me.
Everyday I go into work thinking 'this isnt what i want to be doing'. Which itself doesnt motivate me to get any work done. Im overdue on a project.
Everyday im emailing people, calling people trying to crap I dont care about sorted.
Their systems are so needlessly complicated meaning I have to email round to get things put through etc.
Im starting to long for a job where I can develop skills and be an expert in something interesting, like FEA, 3d printing, or engine design.
Im on training course for CAD at the moment, but even that im not enthusiastic about. I have no friends at work which adds to the stress. (Not many people my age, and lots of foreigners).
Sorry if this sounds like a rant. Its a shame because If i find another job, I will have to move away again and I was getting settled in the area. There is a university nearby I could do a PhD at.
Do you think there are any jobs which can provide me with what I need? Problem is, at my company their aren't many research based positions, if you are designing, then you are a CAD engineer stuck on one part doing the same old revisions.
Thanks for your replies.
Well, its been 6 months, im in the same project engineering postion and the stress is killing me.
Everyday I go into work thinking 'this isnt what i want to be doing'. Which itself doesnt motivate me to get any work done. Im overdue on a project.
Everyday im emailing people, calling people trying to crap I dont care about sorted.
Their systems are so needlessly complicated meaning I have to email round to get things put through etc.
Im starting to long for a job where I can develop skills and be an expert in something interesting, like FEA, 3d printing, or engine design.
Im on training course for CAD at the moment, but even that im not enthusiastic about. I have no friends at work which adds to the stress. (Not many people my age, and lots of foreigners).
Sorry if this sounds like a rant. Its a shame because If i find another job, I will have to move away again and I was getting settled in the area. There is a university nearby I could do a PhD at.
Do you think there are any jobs which can provide me with what I need? Problem is, at my company their aren't many research based positions, if you are designing, then you are a CAD engineer stuck on one part doing the same old revisions.
Sounds like you want to be a design engineer in a role that includes more than just CAD drafting, or an analysis or research engineer.
I think my previous advice still stands.
I think my previous advice still stands.
Original post by steve1991
Hi
Thanks for your replies.
Well, its been 6 months, im in the same project engineering postion and the stress is killing me.
Everyday I go into work thinking 'this isnt what i want to be doing'. Which itself doesnt motivate me to get any work done. Im overdue on a project.
Everyday im emailing people, calling people trying to crap I dont care about sorted.
Their systems are so needlessly complicated meaning I have to email round to get things put through etc.
Im starting to long for a job where I can develop skills and be an expert in something interesting, like FEA, 3d printing, or engine design.
Im on training course for CAD at the moment, but even that im not enthusiastic about. I have no friends at work which adds to the stress. (Not many people my age, and lots of foreigners).
Sorry if this sounds like a rant. Its a shame because If i find another job, I will have to move away again and I was getting settled in the area. There is a university nearby I could do a PhD at.
Do you think there are any jobs which can provide me with what I need? Problem is, at my company their aren't many research based positions, if you are designing, then you are a CAD engineer stuck on one part doing the same old revisions.
Thanks for your replies.
Well, its been 6 months, im in the same project engineering postion and the stress is killing me.
Everyday I go into work thinking 'this isnt what i want to be doing'. Which itself doesnt motivate me to get any work done. Im overdue on a project.
Everyday im emailing people, calling people trying to crap I dont care about sorted.
Their systems are so needlessly complicated meaning I have to email round to get things put through etc.
Im starting to long for a job where I can develop skills and be an expert in something interesting, like FEA, 3d printing, or engine design.
Im on training course for CAD at the moment, but even that im not enthusiastic about. I have no friends at work which adds to the stress. (Not many people my age, and lots of foreigners).
Sorry if this sounds like a rant. Its a shame because If i find another job, I will have to move away again and I was getting settled in the area. There is a university nearby I could do a PhD at.
Do you think there are any jobs which can provide me with what I need? Problem is, at my company their aren't many research based positions, if you are designing, then you are a CAD engineer stuck on one part doing the same old revisions.
Quoting you in case you don't see Smacks reply above!
Some solid advice given by Smack just to add to what has been already said you may as well leave your current job and just find something you enjoy
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