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The Proof is 'not-so' Trivial - Physics Edition

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Original post by natninja
To be honest every single problem on this thread has been a homework question so far... actually worse... a 'bookwork' question.

I think you'd struggle to google the answer to this one unless you knew where to look.


How can you say with certainty that all the questions thus far a homework question? None of the ones I've posted were book work or homework. I don't get questions to prove for homework.
Original post by Arieisit
How can you say with certainty that all the questions thus far a homework question? None of the ones I've posted were book work or homework. I don't get questions to prove for homework.


I've had all those problems as homework...
Original post by natninja
I've had all those problems as homework...


I'm not doing a physics degree...

Posted from TSR Mobile
Problem 19 : What is the energy-momentum relation for a space-like particle? For example, the hypothetical particle known as the tachyon.

What unusual properties can you deduce about the allowed energies of these particles?

(I posted this question in a different thread, but realised it would be well suited here.)
Problem 20**

A particle ejected into a fluid at t=0t=0 experiences a drag represented by ad=kva_d=-\text{k}v where k\text{k} is a constant and vv is the velocity of the projectile. If the initial speed is vo v_o show that the y-component of the velocity is

vyk+g=Aektk\dfrac{v_y}{\text{k}} + g = \dfrac{\text{A}e^{-\text{k}t}}{\text{k}}
Given the like, is anyone actually trying to solve this problem/attempted it? If not, I will post a solution for people to browse should they please.

Original post by WishingChaff
Problem 19 : What is the energy-momentum relation for a space-like particle? For example, the hypothetical particle known as the tachyon.

What unusual properties can you deduce about the allowed energies of these particles?

(I posted this question in a different thread, but realised it would be well suited here.)
Original post by WishingChaff
Given the like, is anyone actually trying to solve this problem/attempted it? If not, I will post a solution for people to browse should they please.


I would've attempted it if could because I have no idea what a tachyon is. I can only solve like advanced mechanics problems because I'm in engineering :tongue:

Posted from TSR Mobile
Reply 127
Original post by Arieisit
Problem 20**

A particle ejected into a fluid at t=0t=0 experiences a drag represented by ad=kva_d=-\text{k}v where k\text{k} is a constant and vv is the velocity of the projectile. If the initial speed is vo v_o show that the y-component of the velocity is

vyk+g=Aektk\dfrac{v_y}{\text{k}} + g = \dfrac{\text{A}e^{-\text{k}t}}{\text{k}}


My maths isn't great... is this:

Spoiler



basically the right idea? If it's more complicated than that then I'll likely run around in circles for days.

EDIT: when you say for drag, a=-kv, is that supposed to be an acceleration or a force? Just asking because my answer currently has m's in it that I have no idea how to get rid of, and if the total drag was supposed to be d=-mkv, then the m's would all have cancelled in the second line or so. Otherwise, I've just done something stupid and wrong.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 128
Original post by Arieisit
Problem 17**/***

Suppose that a block is on a inclined plane with a weight, WW, and force,P P, acting horizontally

Show that if motion occurs up the incline

P>W[tanθ+μs1μstanθ] P > W[\dfrac{\tan\theta + \mu_s}{1-\mu_s\tan\theta}]

where μs\mu_s is the co-effiecient of static friction


I don't think this counts as ***, or maybe even **. Inclined planes are dealt with in the first A level mechanics unit and I was able to solve this relatively easily (thought I was going to need some more trig, but then it all worked out in the end :smile:).
Original post by lerjj
My maths isn't great... is this:

Spoiler



basically the right idea? If it's more complicated than that then I'll likely run around in circles for days.

EDIT: when you say for drag, a=-kv, is that supposed to be an acceleration or a force? Just asking because my answer currently has m's in it that I have no idea how to get rid of, and if the total drag was supposed to be d=-mkv, then the m's would all have cancelled in the second line or so. Otherwise, I've just done something stupid and wrong.


a is for acceleration. That'll make things clearer for you, though you can treat the k as the mass which is also a constant but yeah, you get the picture.
Reply 130
Original post by Arieisit
a is for acceleration. That'll make things clearer for you, though you can treat the k as the mass which is also a constant but yeah, you get the picture.


The ad=kva_d=-kv represents the drag force as a function of velocity, no? Thus lerjj should end up with a second order D.E
Reply 131
Original post by Phichi
The ad=kva_d=-kv represents the drag force as a function of velocity, no? Thus lerjj should end up with a second order D.E


It's Fdrag=mkv F_{drag} = -mkv which ends up making this not that bad of an equation. I do currently have slightly the wrong answer though.

Spoiler

(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 132
Original post by Motorbiker
Assume a hollow uniform cylinder of a set mass.

And Yea, com is highest in either full or empty bottle. I want the equation for combined com, then the minimum point of this equation.

Posted from TSR Mobile


I have worked out a solution to a version of this problem. I've got the height of the water level required to minimise the centre of mass in terms of the cross sectional area, mass of empty bottle, height of bottle and density of water.

Would you like me to post my solution? (I might have made a mistake, I'm not 100% sure)
Original post by Phichi
The ad=kva_d=-kv represents the drag force as a function of velocity, no? Thus lerjj should end up with a second order D.E


No, the acceleration of the drag force is a function of velocity. A 2nd order differential equation is not needed a first order will suffice.
Original post by lerjj
It's Fdrag=mkv F_{drag} = -mkv which ends up making this not that bad of an equation. I do currently have slightly the wrong answer though.

Spoiler



Its really easy form here, though. Basic GCSE maths.
Reply 135
Original post by Arieisit
Its really easy form here, though. Basic GCSE maths.


I must be missing something, because there's no way I can see to get from
vygk=Aek/t v_y -\dfrac{g}{k} = Ae^{-k/t}
to
vyk+g=Aek/tk \dfrac{v_y}{k} + g = \dfrac{Ae^{-k/t}}{k}

To get the g term right, you need to multiply by -k everywhere, and that doesn't give the correct answer for any of the other terms. I assume that I just made a mistake somewhere.
Original post by lerjj
I must be missing something, because there's no way I can see to get from
vygk=Aek/t v_y -\dfrac{g}{k} = Ae^{-k/t}
to
vyk+g=Aek/tk \dfrac{v_y}{k} + g = \dfrac{Ae^{-k/t}}{k}

To get the g term right, you need to multiply by -k everywhere, and that doesn't give the correct answer for any of the other terms. I assume that I just made a mistake somewhere.


vygk=Aek/t v_y -\dfrac{g}{k} = Ae^{-k/t}

Factorising k we get, your negative sign is wrong though

k(vykg)=Aek/t k(\dfrac{v_y}{k} - g) = Ae^{-k/t}

(vykg)=Aek/tk (\dfrac{v_y}{k} - g) = \dfrac{Ae^{-k/t}}{k}
Reply 137
Original post by Arieisit
vygk=Aek/t v_y -\dfrac{g}{k} = Ae^{-k/t}

Factorising k we get, your negative sign is wrong though

k(vykg)=Aek/t k(\dfrac{v_y}{k} - g) = Ae^{-k/t}

(vykg)=Aek/tk (\dfrac{v_y}{k} - g) = \dfrac{Ae^{-k/t}}{k}


No, factoring k you get

k(vykgk2)=Aek/t k(\dfrac{v_y}{k}-\dfrac{g}{k^2}) = Ae^{-k/t}
vykgk2=Aek/tk\dfrac{v_y}{k} - \dfrac{g}{k^2}=\dfrac{ Ae^{-k/t}}{k}

Which is different. I'm actually inclined to think the -ve sign is correct, as moving the term to the other side shows that the y velocity is greatest when you have a larger acceleration, which makes sense.
Original post by lerjj
No, factoring k you get

k(vykgk2)=Aek/t k(\dfrac{v_y}{k}-\dfrac{g}{k^2}) = Ae^{-k/t}
vykgk2=Aek/tk\dfrac{v_y}{k} - \dfrac{g}{k^2}=\dfrac{ Ae^{-k/t}}{k}

Which is different. I'm actually inclined to think the -ve sign is correct, as moving the term to the other side shows that the y velocity is greatest when you have a larger acceleration, which makes sense.


Here's the solution.

Taking into account the effect of gravity.

ap=kvpgj[br][br]axi+ayj=k(vxi+vyj)gj a_p = -\text{k}v_p - g\mathbf{j}[br][br]a_x\mathbf{i} + a_y\mathbf{j} = -\text{k}(v_x \mathbf{i}+ v_y\mathbf{j}) - g\mathbf{j}

Equating the j terms

Unparseable latex formula:

\dfrac{\tex{d}v_y}{dt} = -\text{k}v_y - g = -\text{k}(v_y + \frac{g}{k}) = [br][br]\displaystyle\int\dfrac{ \text{d}v_y}{v_y + \frac{g}{k}} = -\text{k} \displaystyle\int \text{d}t



solve integral to get

vy+gk=Aektv_y + \dfrac{g}{k} = Ae^{-kt}
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 139
Original post by Arieisit
Here's the solution.

Taking into account the effect of gravity.

ap=kvpgj[br][br]axi+ayj=k(vxi+vyj)gj a_p = -\text{k}v_p - g\mathbf{j}[br][br]a_x\mathbf{i} + a_y\mathbf{j} = -\text{k}(v_x \mathbf{i}+ v_y\mathbf{j}) - g\mathbf{j}

Equating the j terms

Unparseable latex formula:

\dfrac{\tex{d}v_y}{dt} = -\text{k}v_y - g = -\text{k}(v_y + \frac{g}{k}) = [br][br]\displaystyle\int\dfrac{ \text{d}v_y}{v_y + \frac{g}{k}} = -\text{k} \displaystyle\int \text{d}t



solve integral to get (starting from initial conditions so c = 0)

vy+gk=Aektv_y + \dfrac{g}{k} = Ae^{-kt}


Ah, okay. I was taking weight to act in the positive direction (was thinking more along the lines of a particle falling through a fluid, evidently didn't read the question properly :colondollar:). If your constant of integration is 0 though, where does the A come from?

Also, looking at my solution (I now realise I was not thinking about the correct situation. So this doesn't impact on the correct answer) it seems slightly odd. My working was taking down to be positive, and I essentially got this:
vyvy, terminal=Aektv_y - v_{\text{y, terminal}} = Ae^{-kt}
Which seems intuitively correct, with the exception of the fact that A would need to be a negative wouldn't it? And I don't think it is in my solution... maybe I'll put in in a main post elsewhere to see if anyone else can see any mistakes.

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