Are these gender characteristics generally true or just stereotypes?

Was reading about relationships and life etc and came across a site about the 'red pill' mentality which holds some of the following views on gender:

19.) – Women are depreciating assets, their major asset and unique selling point is their sexual beauty and fertility. Most of them squander their best years on “riding the cock carousel,” which means ****ing lots of different guys they met in nightclubs in a daze of smoke-filled hedonism. Most women spend the bulk of their 20’s being generally irresponsible and riding through life on easy mode getting ahead on beauty rather than talent thinking they have all the time in the world “to settle down.” Then around the age of 30, they reach something known as “the wall,” their fertility falls off a cliff alongside their looks and they clamour in desperation to find a man to settle down with. Women are born, their ability to conceive children is what makes them women.

20.) – In contrast, men are not born, they are created. Pain, poverty, difficulty, heartache, oppression: these are the things which make men out of boys. This is why you searched the internet for something akin to the red pill philosophy. Conflict and pain is what forges the masculine mindset, men cannot grow without conflict and retrospectively analysing their mistakes. Men need to apply their logical minds to problems which arise in their lives, elevate themselves, and then transcend their previous selves to become more powerful. Men are never born, they are always bred in the bloody fields of battle, be it a war that is economic, mental, physical or all of these things. A man is a soldier of differing kinds, a man has learnt to repress his fear and hone the adrenaline that fear elicits to attack his limitations so that he may breach his comfort zone and work towards his dreams.

For some reason though I've always related more to the second paragraph despite being female. I mean I've always been single and haven't really tried to get a man as such I enjoy my own company. I'm very I to sports and enjoy improving/keeping fit and 'creating' myself in a career. I see myself as being more valuble when I'm older due to increased knowledge, life experience and an increased ability to support myself. I've never tried to look my best and have always focused on becomming physically stronger ie with fitness/ in the gym. Was always a tomboy at school. I thought that just like being a man, being a woman is the ability to remain during despite setbacks and survive in life. I love proving myself through bravery/physical fitness In competition etc, is this unattractive? :tongue:

. I probably won't have children and just want to be independant.

Makes me me wonder am I following the wrong gender stereotype, is my 'value' to attract going to decrease with age just because I'm female. Despite me adopting the male gender role? Or are those paragraphs not all that gender specific in reality? I.e do people improve themselves in different ways despite what gender they are?

(edited 9 years ago)

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Reply 1

A5ko

Was the person who wrote this an angry, ugly single guy or lesbian?

Reply 2

civilstudent

Original post by A5ko

Was the person who wrote this an angry, ugly single guy or lesbian?

Apparantly a 'red pill' follower whatever that means. maybe it's just a load of bull unless anyone can pick any truths out of it.

Reply 3

517340

Original post by A5ko

Was the person who wrote this an angry, ugly single guy or lesbian?

It's got angry single guy written all over it. I mean it's crystal clear from that first sentence - "their major asset and unique selling point is their sexual beauty and fertility". Also it's written with 'red pill' mentality, which again is angry single guys.

Reply 4

civilstudent

Original post by Ruthless Dutchman

What they don't get though is that the are a ton of quiet unpopular girls who are going through the same thing as them ..can't get a date because they are not classed as pretty. It's only some (usually popular) people that seemingly have it all and this includes guys too.

Reply 5

517340

Original post by civilstudent

Are you suggesting they care about quiet unpopular girls? But that would invalidate all their excuses! "Girls have it so easy!"

Reply 6

ahappydyl

Total stereotypes. Whoever wrote it sounds incredibly bitter.

Reply 7

wingedxillusion

Paragraph 19.) describes quite a lot of humans in modern times, regardless of gender
Paragraph 20.) describes all humans (and organisms for that matter if you look at it in a more abstract way), regardless of gender

It's quite simple really

Reply 8

lilymoran

Well, men and women have more things in common than not.

We all want love, support from the opposite sex and friends.

We all want economic stability.

We all want independence and control over our lives.

We all have difficulties in our lives - it's the human condition. People we love are going to fall ill, leave us, die. We are going to lose jobs, fail exams, have accidents.

We are all going to have pain whether it's illness, toothache, child birth etc.

The point is how we face all of this- hopefully with courage, cooperation and sympathy for those less fortunate than ourselves.

Reply 9

517340

Original post by civilstudent

Lemme translate this for you -

"Women are depreciating assets, their major asset and unique selling point is their sexual beauty and fertility. "
Basically, women are objects and their value is based on aesthetics and their use. What do you mean they're people?

"Most of them squander their best years on “riding the cock carousel,” which means ****ing lots of different guys they met in nightclubs in a daze of smoke-filled hedonism."
I have conducted an in-depth survey on women and have found that the majority of them have one-night-stands with people they don't care about because they just want sex.

"Most women spend the bulk of their 20’s being generally irresponsible and riding through life on easy mode getting ahead on beauty rather than talent thinking they have all the time in the world “to settle down.” "
Gosh it must be so easy being a woman getting sex whenever you want and seducing men and taking advantage of them because we have it so hard getting sex whenever we want. How dare they enjoy their lives and not think about meee who has to work hard and earn money in order to look decent and even though I'm such a nice guy why won't anybody see me as one, I'M SUCH A NICE GUY!

"Then around the age of 30, they reach something known as “the wall,” their fertility falls off a cliff alongside their looks and they clamour in desperation to find a man to settle down with. Women are born, their ability to conceive children is what makes them women."
I'm for certain that the menopause starts around the age of 30 despite that it's actually more likely around their 40s but that's irrelevant to my whining. They start to look ugly from around the age of 30 and that's when they start feeling sorry for how they've lived their life. Women are just baby machines. Having a vagina makes you a woman, I am massively transphobic and men are the only people.

"In contrast, men are not born, they are created. Pain, poverty, difficulty, heartache, oppression: these are the things which make men out of boys. This is why you searched the internet for something akin to the red pill philosophy."
On order to become a 'man' you much overcome all of these really difficult obstacles that life places in front of you, these are things only men need to overcome because it's easy to be a woman they just get it all given to them. Welcome to Club Manpain.

"Conflict and pain is what forges the masculine mindset, men cannot grow without conflict and retrospectively analysing their mistakes. Men need to apply their logical minds to problems which arise in their lives, elevate themselves, and then transcend their previous selves to become more powerful. "
Look at all these things I'm listing that only men have to deal with to grow up. Everything is fighting and struggling, I lost at the egg and spoon race and got beaten by that stupid girl, stupid stupid girl and her ability to run better than me. We are mystical beings and we must consider ourselves as deities that are born into gods because my ego is SO ****ING BIG. I AM A GOD LOOK AT ME.

"Men are never born, they are always bred in the bloody fields of battle, be it a war that is economic, mental, physical or all of these things. A man is a soldier of differing kinds, a man has learnt to repress his fear and hone the adrenaline that fear elicits to attack his limitations so that he may breach his comfort zone and work towards his dreams."
*fart noises because I'll be repeating the same thing* It's so difficult stopping myself from hurting people don't you understand how difficult it is to grow up and be a decent human being?

You man feel like you relate more to the second paragraph because the guy wrote about things everyone experiences at some point in their life. Everyone struggles with stuff even though he did kinda go overboard with dramatic writing, 98% convinced he had some 'heroic' soundtrack in his head write typing that out. What he listed are not solely 'man' problems.

Why don't you relate to the first one? When's the last time you related to a specifications document? (A false one at that)

You're not following the 'wrong' gender stereotype, in fact, throw out the gender stereotype entirely because we're not in the 50's anymore. You are your own person, your achievements and success are your own doing. Your value is how much you value yourself, do not let others put a number to you. Progress and self-improvement has no gender bias.

Reply 10

SophieSmall

Ahh dammit, now smashbandicoot/riku is going to be all over this.

In short, don't listen to that *******s.

Reply 11

Arkarian

Original post by civilstudent

Let's dissect it!

Paragraph 1

STATEMENT 1 - Women are depreciating assets, their major asset and unique selling point is their sexual beauty and fertility.

...
...
Why is the book treating women as objects?

STATEMENT 2 - Most of them squander their best years on “riding the cock carousel,” which means ****ing lots of different guys they met in nightclubs in a daze of smoke-filled hedonism.

Uhh...
Yeah...
How many women to guys are there in the world?
Is it no wonder that if there are multiple valid mates that any animal would want to find the one most suited for them?
Plus not EVERY woman does this, I can name many I know who do and barely any that don't... but not ALL do.
So I guess the point adding in 'most' was trying to stop women suing the book.

STATEMENT 3 - Most women spend the bulk of their 20’s being generally irresponsible and riding through life on easy mode getting ahead on beauty rather than talent thinking they have all the time in the world “to settle down."

Ok this I disagree with tons, most of the people I know in general have gone through hard times and instead of getting by have gone to higher learning to make something of themselves.
TBH all humans hate the thought of the future so why do you suggest people will leave things till later? The government is there so people don't need to concern themselves with the future.

STATEMENT 4 - Then around the age of 30, they reach something known as “the wall,” their fertility falls off a cliff alongside their looks and they clamour in desperation to find a man to settle down with.

Does this guy want to be shot?
Ok so hands up who here(who is 30+[don't worry you aren't that old]) Who as soon as they had their 30th birthday(gratz) fell off a cliff in their lives the moment it happened, that all that they built up suddenly disappeared.
Doubt it unless you are very unlucky.

STATEMENT 5 - Women are born, their ability to conceive children is what makes them women.

Scientifically, yes.
Liberally, no.
Seriously, we kinda all(most) know what women can do that men can't, but if anything that makes them worth more than men can ever be, women(with recent technology to do with embryos ect) don't actually need men to reproduce.

Paragraph 2

STATEMENT 1 - In contrast, men are not born, they are created.

Nope pretty sure unless you believe in all the religious cults where EVERYTHING was built in 7 days instead of thousands of years of evolution like we can prove, or that a book written by some drunk guy thousands of years ago, has more guidance on the world nowaday and the ability to predict the future, or that women who made you have no rights as to what to do with you, or that it's a sin for them to talk to ANYONE without you present because you aren't paranoid as the almighty 'god' is ever watching.
So unless you think all of that, Scientifically you are still born unless the definition changes because you have more ego than the people who created religion to control the masses by threats and empty promises.
(Rant about religion only just started) (:3)

STATEMENT 2 - Pain, poverty, difficulty, heartache, oppression: these are the things which make men out of boys.

I'm pretty sure that by the definition that ACTUALLY exists for man, you have two choices:
1 an adult human male.
2 a human being of either sex; a person.

So you are saying you only become 'adult' when you face midlife crisis?
Ok I'll stay a child then.

STATEMENT 3 - This is why you searched the internet for something akin to the red pill philosophy.

Go.
Die.

STATEMENT 4 - Conflict and pain is what forges the masculine mindset, men cannot grow without conflict and retrospectively analysing their mistakes.

1 Screw you I won't ever conform to you.
2 Last time I checked you grew by learning, the more you boast of your strength the less you learn making you weak.
3 Only mistake made was to read the book

STATEMENT 5 - Men need to apply their logical minds to problems which arise in their lives, elevate themselves, and then transcend their previous selves to become more powerful.

Wait...
Let me get this straight.
YOU THINK MEN ARE LOGICAL?
Ok so tell me out of these real situations which were made by 'men', which were logical.

1 Declaring war because you have more weapons/men etc
2 Killing people because of a difference in opinion.
3 Burning people as witches in the middle of town because you don't like them.
4 Making a religion, THEN claiming if people don't follow it they will die.
5 Locking people up for 'talking' to people who aren't there, THEN praying to god for their salvation.
6 Hoarding money when you have enough and people are ouside your door starving.
7 Working to save animals/environment by driving there week in and week out while eating food which has been processed and packaged releasing tons of CO2 into the atmosphere etc etc etc. (then having a smoke after)
8 Being patriotic to a government who lets in immigrants.
9 Being a patriotic immigrant.
10 Hating the use of guns but paying the military to use them.

I'm going to stop there...

STATEMENT 6 - Men are never born, they are always bred in the bloody fields of battle, be it a war that is economic, mental, physical or all of these things.

Yup thats why there are so many pacifists, war gets them so much, it never tears countries apart or kills innocent people or burns down entire villages that had already submitted to your law or saves women and children refugees from said towns being raped daily by the military men who were there to 'protect them' or to drop nukes on places making half the world uninhabitable.
Nope I'm pretty sure war is a totally good tool used for peaceful negotiation between countries that like each other and wish to join alliances and make the world a better place.

STATEMENT 7 - A man is a soldier of differing kinds, a man has learnt to repress his fear and hone the adrenaline that fear elicits to attack his limitations so that he may breach his comfort zone and work towards his dreams.

Soldier - A person with a gun used by governments to oppress people into doing what they want.

Man - Generally sexist to females and think themselves superior, to the extent of thinking them as possession or making them submit without any human rights as they were given by the very people oppressing them.

*Bang Bang*
Shots fired.

To sum it up I'll give my opinion, \o/
I'm a guy, (gender issues so I'm more girlish)
I'm Bisexual (yay me [best of both worlds {lol}])
But this means I understand (more or less) both sides of the argument,
I get how much of a dick guys can be to girls and I get how obnoxious girls can be to guys.
I also have been in most communities (chav/emo etc all the way up to jocks[and equivalent])
So I get the whole, people at the top are really annoyingly oppressive to the people below but also how insecure and attached the people below can be and how annoying it can be to get stalked.
Being as I am I tend to understand most opinions unless its a jerk trying to force his opinion on me like its the law (TBH screw the law its people forcing their opinions of what they think on a mass of people [kinda like religion])

My opinion to the book?
Why did people let that sexist guy write that without getting death threats?

EVERYONE IS EQUAL, I don't care what you say or how you say it, if you plan to stop someone from doing something (aka taking away free will) you will fall, all dictators have fallen and that was not even someone from a combat group, its always a civilian who works close to those people at the top.

GG, Game over.

Reply 12

Arkarian

Original post by Ruthless Dutchman

Are you suggesting they care about quiet unpopular girls? But that would invalidate all their excuses! "Girls have it so easy!"

It's easy to argue a point by talking about the majority, more people to back you up and less people to have to deal with, to fight against that majority is what some people do, most are called 'hater' and have crude ways of doing things, picking of weak people who are only sheep or attacking the strongest person with useless points that are unreferenced or never backed up, so all they do is make people hate the minority more.

To get something done you need to make the minority seem valuable, to make the truth of the majority shatter, if people use religion as a way to scare people to follow them and give them money, so be it.

But to use fear to control people makes them dangerous, it will bring up a tide that won't ever be able to be stopped. The people you oppress will always find a way back.

We leave it to the strong to fight head on, the weak have other methods.
Our strength comes from our almost debilitating weakness, that we polish our knowledge and tear out the throats of those who sit back and boast of their strength.

They may be strong but I doubt no matter how strong that person is that they can take down a rocket launcher with their bare hands or stop a tank that WE THE WEAK made using our knowledge to overcome the world and predict the future itself.

Humans aren't the best at anything, we aren't strong like lions or fast like cheetahs, we can't fly like a bird or swim like a fish, we are weak; but thats what makes us strong.

We make our own ways to win while the strong stick to what they know.

Even nowadays it's still happening.

Hacker VS security.

Hackers make their own ways and security defends the ways that are already made.

Reply 13

Arkarian

Original post by pickup

We all want love, support from the opposite sex and friends.

Are you talking about equality?
Because from where I'm standing in the 'not part of we all camp because I'm bisexual' it doesn't seem that specifying that love is only wanted from opposite genders, plus the different types of love so you can say you 'love' your mum AND dad. or am I wrong and you only 'love' the one of opposite sex?

Revolting.

It's funny really. For the most part I agree with the op, but with the genders reversed. From what I can tell it's males that spend their 20s in hedonistic bliss, wondering from woman to woman, breaking hearts along the way and not growing up until they reach their 30s when they finally realise there's more to life than ****ing different women endlessly.

On the other hand, amongst the people I know, it's usually the girls in their 20s that want to settle down and live their life like adults, yet are constantly getting screwed over by immature unfaithful boyfriends. 30 is generally the age you find women settling down, not because their looks are fading, but because that's the age that the men they're associating with finally pull their heads out their ass and start acting like men rather than boys.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 16

Octohedral

Original post by civilstudent

Apparantly a 'red pill' follower whatever that means. maybe it's just a load of bull unless anyone can pick any truths out of it.

I stopped at 'red pill'. They're crazy - I've read enough of their stuff to know what it says. They think the world is led by feminazis who have been allowed to spread bad ideas about liberalism, because men have failed to control them. They think women are making the wrong choices by going for 'male' objectives like power, whilst ignoring what they are best at, which is making sandwiches and having babies. They aim to gently guide these naïve women back onto the correct path, where they can take on their role as a man and provide for them in exchange for sex and babies. They talk about being soldiers as if they have more experience of war than playing video games in their pyjamas. They basically live in the 15th Century.

I could spend the next six hours dissecting every one of their points and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.

I fully support men's rights, and there may well be a reasonable argument to be had on gender roles and discrimination against men. However, I wouldn't even bother looking for it in there.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 17

Niassuh

God, the "red pill" is such crap. Gender is a social construct anyway. You identify with the gender "woman" but like working out. So what? Who decided that women shouldn't be muscular?
Every avenue is open to you, don't let anyone tell you what to do!!

Those stereotypes of men and women are not true. Just look at the world as a whole. Who is it that works hardest in third world countries like India and my own Pakistan? It's not men, that's for sure. It's women that toil in the fields and return from a hard day of work to even more work at home. It's women that put up with the pain of childbirth. Anyone that thinks women have it easy is not looking at it from an international standpoint.

As for attracting men, not all men are as ****headed as red-pilled MRAs. Trust me, there's plenty of guys out there that would not just tolerate your gym habits but like you more because of it.