No means no but now yes also means no?
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Why is this made an issue of feminism? It's not an issue of feminism.
Assuming that both parties of legal age, and can therefore legally consent to sex.
1. Druken consent is never consent. It's taking advantage of vulnerable people...and that is wrong.
2. Informed consent is never consent. You know what they say about assumptions...."they make a *** out of you and me...."
3. Someone might have given consent for one act, but when it escalates, it does not mean that there is consent for something else.
4. If one person says yes, and the other person says no, it's a no.
5. Unlike in Family Guy, 50 noes and a yes, doesn't mean yes. (why are you asking more than once, for one thing, anyway?)
6. If the person, has said yes to one thing, doesn't like it, and wants the other person to stop...well...they better stop.
Not even taking into account forced responses.
Whatever genders may be involved, and of whatever orientation this is all true. Not only is it the law, it's part of being a decent human being.
Assuming that both parties of legal age, and can therefore legally consent to sex.
1. Druken consent is never consent. It's taking advantage of vulnerable people...and that is wrong.
2. Informed consent is never consent. You know what they say about assumptions...."they make a *** out of you and me...."
3. Someone might have given consent for one act, but when it escalates, it does not mean that there is consent for something else.
4. If one person says yes, and the other person says no, it's a no.
5. Unlike in Family Guy, 50 noes and a yes, doesn't mean yes. (why are you asking more than once, for one thing, anyway?)
6. If the person, has said yes to one thing, doesn't like it, and wants the other person to stop...well...they better stop.
Not even taking into account forced responses.
Whatever genders may be involved, and of whatever orientation this is all true. Not only is it the law, it's part of being a decent human being.
Original post by Rakas21
I don't see a problem with your second example. It's a bit harsh and i'm not somebody who'd be that mean but i think it's quite legitimate to offer somebody a choice between leaving or having sex. That's certainly not rape or anything, she should have got the cab fair on her.
Well it kindof is. If someone says they dont want to have sex with you and then you pressure them into saying yes by saying the alternative is what many would count as an unpleasant experience (especially when really drunk, how many of us have been so drunk they felt they couldn't even make it home alone?), then yeah, that's pretty rapey...
Original post by william walker
I think the second example is coercion and must be counted as rape.
Yeah and I think that's what this girl is trying to say.
As the old saying goes: 50 Nos and a yes...is still No! Especially if it involves coercion
Original post by redferry
Well it kindof is. If someone says they dont want to have sex with you and then you pressure them into saying yes by saying the alternative is what many would count as an unpleasant experience (especially when really drunk, how many of us have been so drunk they felt they couldn't even make it home alone?), then yeah, that's pretty rapey...
Morally dubious is not rape. One's house is not a hotel.
Original post by SerenityNow
It's their house, you don't have the right to be there unless they allow you to. If you have sex with him because you don't want to go out, that's a choice. He'd a dbag, not a rapist. The other examples are covered by the law and are already considered rape.
It's definitely rape. I ended up in that situation as a fresher - I had no idea where I was, I was bladdered and my phone was out of battery. I left, and walked the hour home alone in a short dress and high heels (which got removed because ouch). It was snowing and I had hypothermia by the time I got in. I can easily see how other girls might end up seeing sex as the least dangerous alternative.
From that day on I always took a coat out with me...
Yes doesn't mean yes if you change your mind! Any sexual contact AFTER consent is withdrawn is sexual assault, it really is that simple!
Also, sometimes people are pressured or forced into saying yes. That clearly isn't a real yes.
It doesn't take a feminist to know this, it takes common sense!
Also, sometimes people are pressured or forced into saying yes. That clearly isn't a real yes.
It doesn't take a feminist to know this, it takes common sense!
Original post by Rakas21
Morally dubious is not rape. One's house is not a hotel.
See my previous story about being in that situation.
If you want them out your house so bad call them a cab. It's what I would do if the roles were reversed.
Original post by jammy4041
1. Druken consent is never consent.
That is wrong from the get go. Drunken consent is still consent. However there is a point where you can be too drunk to consent
Original post by redferry
It's definitely rape. I ended up in that situation as a fresher - I had no idea where I was, I was bladdered and my phone was out of battery. I left, and walked the hour home alone in a short dress and high heels (which got removed because ouch). It was snowing and I had hypothermia by the time I got in. I can easily see how other girls might end up seeing sex as the least dangerous alternative.
From that day on I always took a coat out with me...
From that day on I always took a coat out with me...
Why didn't you have a coat? Why didn't you have taxi money? And it's not rape, it is his house. The law does not allow you to be there unless he agrees. If you choose to have sex with him it is your decision. Women have been trading sex for miscellaneous advantages for what... 200.000 years, if you only count Homo Sapiens as proper humans? Even though women want sex as much as men and are as indiscriminate about it, or so we are told.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by skd1996
If someone is drunk it is always a no.
Can you show me the legislation that if someone is drunk they cannot consent?
Original post by skd1996
It's common sense. Not only is it plain wrong, it can put you in an unsafe situation where you can be accused of rape the next day. It's not worth it for both parties.
So you haven't got an legislation to back up your claim?
Original post by skd1996
It is always a no unless the other person is sober and outrightly says 'yes I would like to have sex'.
If someone is drunk it is always a no.
If someone changes their mind is turns into a no and you stop right away.
If you are in a relationship and they say no, it still means no.
If someone seems at all uncomfortable it's a no.
Just because someone says yes doesn't mean they mean it. Alcohol, drugs, pressure etc can alter a persons mind and choices.
Never laugh at someone for changing their mind. This post is quite pathetic, I thought this was all common knowledge.
If someone is drunk it is always a no.
If someone changes their mind is turns into a no and you stop right away.
If you are in a relationship and they say no, it still means no.
If someone seems at all uncomfortable it's a no.
Just because someone says yes doesn't mean they mean it. Alcohol, drugs, pressure etc can alter a persons mind and choices.
Never laugh at someone for changing their mind. This post is quite pathetic, I thought this was all common knowledge.
You can't be serious?
So what if you kiss her and she kisses you back... is progressing from that point actually rape because there was never an explicit conversation.
Original post by skd1996
It is always a no unless the other person is sober and outrightly says 'yes I would like to have sex'.
If someone is drunk it is always a no.
If someone changes their mind is turns into a no and you stop right away.
If you are in a relationship and they say no, it still means no.
If someone seems at all uncomfortable it's a no.
Just because someone says yes doesn't mean they mean it. Alcohol, drugs, pressure etc can alter a persons mind and choices.
Never laugh at someone for changing their mind. This post is quite pathetic, I thought this was all common knowledge.
If someone is drunk it is always a no.
If someone changes their mind is turns into a no and you stop right away.
If you are in a relationship and they say no, it still means no.
If someone seems at all uncomfortable it's a no.
Just because someone says yes doesn't mean they mean it. Alcohol, drugs, pressure etc can alter a persons mind and choices.
Never laugh at someone for changing their mind. This post is quite pathetic, I thought this was all common knowledge.
None of my sexual interactions have involved anyone outright saying "yes I want to have sex with you". Consent is usually implicit.
Original post by skd1996
If someone seems at all uncomfortable it's a no.
If someone seems at all uncomfortable it's a no.
Have you seen the sex scenes in Titanic or The Notebook? I don't remember the girls looking very comfy in them. Are you saying the greatest love stories of the last 20 years started with rape?
Original post by skd1996
Considering I'm about to get in the shower I have better things to do with my time than look up a legislation for someone who is practically legitimising rape. If someone cannot consent then you don't do it.
Well let me help you out. There is no legislation to support your claim because your claim is wrong.
Drunk consent is still consent (unless you are too drunk to consent or you did not drink the alcohol of your own volition).
Original post by skd1996
If she/he is drunk then it doesn't matter how much you kiss beforehand you should definitely check they want to. Someone can be as sexually excited as possible but that doesn't give you the right to take them.
Considering I'm about to get in the shower I have better things to do with my time than look up a legislation for someone who is practically legitimising rape. If someone cannot consent then you don't do it.
Considering I'm about to get in the shower I have better things to do with my time than look up a legislation for someone who is practically legitimising rape. If someone cannot consent then you don't do it.
Well perhaps i'm not normal or am lucky not to have been called a rapist then but i've always operated under the proviso that if she's reciprocating, she wants it.
Original post by redferry
It's definitely rape. I ended up in that situation as a fresher - I had no idea where I was, I was bladdered and my phone was out of battery. I left, and walked the hour home alone in a short dress and high heels (which got removed because ouch). It was snowing and I had hypothermia by the time I got in. I can easily see how other girls might end up seeing sex as the least dangerous alternative.
From that day on I always took a coat out with me...
From that day on I always took a coat out with me...
A girl kicked me out when I was a fresher, I got on the wrong bus, ended up in the next town and walked back along the side of the A-road using the road signs. Though luckily this was fresher's week so it wasn't snowing!
Rakas is wrong. Property rights come with a side order of noblesse oblige. You ought to extend hospitality to those in difficult circumstances. Once upon a time conservatives knew this.
Original post by redferry
I ended up in that situation as a fresher - I had no idea where I was, I was bladdered and my phone was out of battery. I left, and walked the hour home alone in a short dress and high heels (which got removed because ouch). It was snowing and I had hypothermia by the time I got in. I can easily see how other girls might end up seeing sex as the least dangerous alternative.
It always makes me laugh when I see these idiots wearing next to nothing in heels when it's snowing. Why are you so desperate to show off your thighs? Normal girls wear tights or trousers or longer dresses in the winter and more suitable shoes, especially for a house party.
Original post by skd1996
If they don't look comfortable you should check that they are ok and that they still want to. I'm not saying you should just not have sex if they look nervous/uncomfy- but at least have the decency to check they are still consenting. They might just be nervous, or they might actually be too shy/scared to say they are withdrawing consent.
You can't just assume someone wants sex or that someone hasn't changed their mind. They might not say those exact words, but you should ask them if they are sure they want to or ask them if they're ok.
I don't understand what everyone is finding so wrong about double checking someone is giving you consent. You don't want to rape someone and no one wants to be raped?
You can't just assume someone wants sex or that someone hasn't changed their mind. They might not say those exact words, but you should ask them if they are sure they want to or ask them if they're ok.
I don't understand what everyone is finding so wrong about double checking someone is giving you consent. You don't want to rape someone and no one wants to be raped?
If they're kissing you and taking off your belt then I rather think that is a reasonable assumption to make. Obviously if later on I sense that she's uncomfortable or she tells me to stop, of course I will. But I can't think of a better way of killing the mood than asking her permission every 5 minutes to carry on.
Original post by skd1996
If they don't look comfortable you should check that they are ok and that they still want to. I'm not saying you should just not have sex if they look nervous/uncomfy- but at least have the decency to check they are still consenting. They might just be nervous, or they might actually be too shy/scared to say they are withdrawing consent.
And how do you know if they keep saying yes because they mean it or they don't want to let you down or because of ''social pressure''? If men stopped having sex with young women that looked nervous or uncomfortable, especially early in their sex life, no sex would ever happen. Life isn't some Fabio novel ''yes yes **** me big boy'', the vast majority of young inexperienced women are terrified of having an 8 inch foreign object inside them (from my experience, at least).
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