No means no but now yes also means no?
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Original post by callum_law
And sometimes no means yes. For example, if you're in the BDSM community, part of the fantasy might be crying 'no' with the underlying understanding that both parties are consenting to the act. And a safety word to ensure the comfort of the people involved.
Or perhaps another example of no not actually meaning no is when a girl want's to be convinced or wooed. The initial response is no, but sometimes she wants a romantic or flirtatious build up, it's not that often that a "wanna hook up?" will suffice. This is a pretty regular occurrence.
Just thought I would add to your point.
Original post by Maid Marian
How about EVERYTHING means no and we all just sit at home all day like dysfunctional dodos and never interact with anyone.
Oh don't worry, the steep lefty SJW's will have us there eventually one way or another
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by redferry
Well it kindof is. If someone says they dont want to have sex with you and then you pressure them into saying yes by saying the alternative is what many would count as an unpleasant experience (especially when really drunk, how many of us have been so drunk they felt they couldn't even make it home alone?), then yeah, that's pretty rapey...
If that happened to me I'd take some accountability for my choices that lead up to that. Like getting drunk and going to someone's house without having the correct transportation to get back home. When you're an adult you're responsible for yourself.
Original post by redferry
Yeah and I think that's what this girl is trying to say.
As the old saying goes: 50 Nos and a yes...is still No! Especially if it involves coercion
As the old saying goes: 50 Nos and a yes...is still No! Especially if it involves coercion
The weird thing about this is if this were about any other agreement it would actually mean yes. Think of businesses that advertise and get people to sign contracts. You may have received the offer 50 times and declined but the time you said yes that's all that matters it's too late.
When you're over 18 that's what is legal and if you have regrets tough luck you said yes once so that's that.
It's apart of what comes with being an adult in my perspective.
Original post by redferry
It's definitely rape. I ended up in that situation as a fresher - I had no idea where I was, I was bladdered and my phone was out of battery. I left, and walked the hour home alone in a short dress and high heels (which got removed because ouch). It was snowing and I had hypothermia by the time I got in. I can easily see how other girls might end up seeing sex as the least dangerous alternative.
From that day on I always took a coat out with me...
From that day on I always took a coat out with me...
But that was due to your choices he did not make you get drunk have no way of transportation to get home or make it cold outside or make you wear what you wore which wasn't designed for a winter day.
You did and thankfully you learned from that.
Original post by jammy4041
Why is this made an issue of feminism? It's not an issue of feminism.
Assuming that both parties of legal age, and can therefore legally consent to sex.
1. Druken consent is never consent. It's taking advantage of vulnerable people...and that is wrong.
2. Informed consent is never consent. You know what they say about assumptions...."they make a *** out of you and me...."
3. Someone might have given consent for one act, but when it escalates, it does not mean that there is consent for something else.
4. If one person says yes, and the other person says no, it's a no.
5. Unlike in Family Guy, 50 noes and a yes, doesn't mean yes. (why are you asking more than once, for one thing, anyway?)
6. If the person, has said yes to one thing, doesn't like it, and wants the other person to stop...well...they better stop.
Not even taking into account forced responses.
Whatever genders may be involved, and of whatever orientation this is all true. Not only is it the law, it's part of being a decent human being.
Assuming that both parties of legal age, and can therefore legally consent to sex.
1. Druken consent is never consent. It's taking advantage of vulnerable people...and that is wrong.
2. Informed consent is never consent. You know what they say about assumptions...."they make a *** out of you and me...."
3. Someone might have given consent for one act, but when it escalates, it does not mean that there is consent for something else.
4. If one person says yes, and the other person says no, it's a no.
5. Unlike in Family Guy, 50 noes and a yes, doesn't mean yes. (why are you asking more than once, for one thing, anyway?)
6. If the person, has said yes to one thing, doesn't like it, and wants the other person to stop...well...they better stop.
Not even taking into account forced responses.
Whatever genders may be involved, and of whatever orientation this is all true. Not only is it the law, it's part of being a decent human being.
first 2 are just wrong, the rest seem like common ense.
Original post by redferry
See my previous story about being in that situation.
If you want them out your house so bad call them a cab. It's what I would do if the roles were reversed.
If you want them out your house so bad call them a cab. It's what I would do if the roles were reversed.
No one has to call a cab for you or spend money on you. You're responsible for yourself.
Original post by skd1996
It is always a no unless the other person is sober and outrightly says 'yes I would like to have sex'.
If someone is drunk it is always a no.
If someone changes their mind is turns into a no and you stop right away.
If you are in a relationship and they say no, it still means no.
If someone seems at all uncomfortable it's a no.
Just because someone says yes doesn't mean they mean it. Alcohol, drugs, pressure etc can alter a persons mind and choices.
Never laugh at someone for changing their mind. This post is quite pathetic, I thought this was all common knowledge.
If someone is drunk it is always a no.
If someone changes their mind is turns into a no and you stop right away.
If you are in a relationship and they say no, it still means no.
If someone seems at all uncomfortable it's a no.
Just because someone says yes doesn't mean they mean it. Alcohol, drugs, pressure etc can alter a persons mind and choices.
Never laugh at someone for changing their mind. This post is quite pathetic, I thought this was all common knowledge.
Uncomfortable probably not always. This bothers me because what do you do when you like want to lose your virginity but a guy thinks like this? sometimes people want to have sex even though it hurts. This is another reason I always fear I'll forever be alone. But that's another story.
Original post by Dr Pesto
None of my sexual interactions have involved anyone outright saying "yes I want to have sex with you". Consent is usually implicit.
The way I see consent is red light yellow light and green light. If she says yes it's a green light if she says yes hesitantly slow down if she says no red light stop. And if she doesn't say anything it's no lights at all. Take a crosswalk and remove the lights and crosswalk sign and see what the car will do. They'll keep going until the see a red or yellow light.
Original post by Dr Pesto
If they're kissing you and taking off your belt then I rather think that is a reasonable assumption to make. Obviously if later on I sense that she's uncomfortable or she tells me to stop, of course I will. But I can't think of a better way of killing the mood than asking her permission every 5 minutes to carry on.
I don't get why people expect others to be mind readers
Original post by anosmianAcrimony
Women can rape men, but the law does not acknowledge that they can do so.
Um they can legally rape men as well.
Original post by Josb
She was able to consent with the former, but not the latter? 
No. Now, this is basic, basic, basic law, and the most terrifying thing about the Ched Evans case is how many people don't get very, very simple legal principles.
The jury must believe two things beyond a reasonable doubt. 1)That the rape happened, as in, was the woman consenting. This is the wot them clever lawyer folk call actus reus.
2) That any "reasonable man" in the defendant's position would have realised he was committing rape.
McDonald took the girl to his hotel room (where we was intoxicated enough to urinate the bed). Evans turned up to the hotel room after being texted that his mate had got a bird. They had sex with her that night from completely different positions.
Original post by SerenityNow
how do you know if they keep saying yes because they mean it or they don't want to let you down or because of ''social pressure''?
If you're not able to tell this, you probably shouldn't be having sex at all.
Original post by cant_think_of_name
1. Anyone under 16 cannot consent.
2. Coercion (i.e. emotional or physical manipulation)
3. Being too intoxicated to consent
4. Retraction of consent
all instances where someone may say yes but not actually want to have sex
2. Coercion (i.e. emotional or physical manipulation)
3. Being too intoxicated to consent
4. Retraction of consent
all instances where someone may say yes but not actually want to have sex
1) how? for example, most people start puberty and sexual development when they're 13~. some countries, too,have lower ages of consent than us (e.g. netherlands, sweden, denmark, etc)
2) agreed
3) but if they choose to drink then surely they're choosing to risk consenting to something they otherwise wouldn't do? how is that a lack of consent, though? it doesn't make them an automaton just because they're drunk - does that mean they can't consent to *anything*?
4) agreed?
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by zippity.doodah
1) how? for example, most people start puberty and sexual development when they're 13~. some countries, too,have lower ages of consent than us (e.g. netherlands, sweden, denmark, etc)
2) agreed
3) but if they choose to drink then surely they're choosing to risk consenting to something they otherwise wouldn't do? how is that a lack of consent, though? it doesn't make them an automaton just because they're drunk - does that mean they can't consent to *anything*?
4) agreed?
2) agreed
3) but if they choose to drink then surely they're choosing to risk consenting to something they otherwise wouldn't do? how is that a lack of consent, though? it doesn't make them an automaton just because they're drunk - does that mean they can't consent to *anything*?
4) agreed?
3) Doesn't matter whether you chose to drink the Sambuca or not, too drunk to consent is too drunk to consent.
Sex, signing contracts, consenting to medical treatment, the list goes on.
Original post by Octopus_Garden
1) Our age of consent laws are 16. That's law. Our driving laws are 17. Other countries' laws do not negate our laws. Incidentally, a bit of armpit hair does not magically endow you with the emotional maturity to make decisions about sex, any more than you noticed your parents handing over the car keys on your 13th birthday.
3) Doesn't matter whether you chose to drink the Sambuca or not, too drunk to consent is too drunk to consent.
Sex, signing contracts, consenting to medical treatment, the list goes on.
3) Doesn't matter whether you chose to drink the Sambuca or not, too drunk to consent is too drunk to consent.
Sex, signing contracts, consenting to medical treatment, the list goes on.
obviously I'm not appealing to arguments from authority (the government/law), I'm arguing from rationality alone.
I'm not saying that kids are mature enough to drive (which is something potentially incredibly dangerous towards others if not done correctly) - I said at roughly 13 (not for every person but most people) they can CONSENT to sex, which doesn't cause potential murder; it can cause a pregnancy if contraception isn't used, but abortions are free in this country anyway.
Original post by zippity.doodah
obviously I'm not appealing to arguments from authority (the government/law), I'm arguing from rationality alone.
I'm not saying that kids are mature enough to drive (which is something potentially incredibly dangerous towards others if not done correctly) - I said at roughly 13 (not for every person but most people) they can CONSENT to sex, which doesn't cause potential murder; it can cause a pregnancy if contraception isn't used, but abortions are free in this country anyway.
I'm not saying that kids are mature enough to drive (which is something potentially incredibly dangerous towards others if not done correctly) - I said at roughly 13 (not for every person but most people) they can CONSENT to sex, which doesn't cause potential murder; it can cause a pregnancy if contraception isn't used, but abortions are free in this country anyway.
If you feel the AoC should be lowered, what is your rational evidence for it? What will you lower with it? Presumably most things?
Why do you feel the average 13 year old is capable enough to consent?
Original post by Octopus_Garden
3) Doesn't matter whether you chose to drink the Sambuca or not, too drunk to consent is too drunk to consent.
3) Doesn't matter whether you chose to drink the Sambuca or not, too drunk to consent is too drunk to consent.
So, can you also be too drunk to rape?
Original post by zippity.doodah
1) how? for example, most people start puberty and sexual development when they're 13~. some countries, too,have lower ages of consent than us (e.g. netherlands, sweden, denmark, etc)
2) agreed
3) but if they choose to drink then surely they're choosing to risk consenting to something they otherwise wouldn't do? how is that a lack of consent, though? it doesn't make them an automaton just because they're drunk - does that mean they can't consent to *anything*?
4) agreed?
2) agreed
3) but if they choose to drink then surely they're choosing to risk consenting to something they otherwise wouldn't do? how is that a lack of consent, though? it doesn't make them an automaton just because they're drunk - does that mean they can't consent to *anything*?
4) agreed?
I started puberty at 6 going on 7 I know girls who started puberty at 5 mental capacity has nothing to do with this. It actually just makes matters worst. Because everyone wants to see you as an adult but you can't keep up because you're just a little kid.
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