The Student Room Group

University of Westminster: Stop ANTI-GAY preacher Sheikh Haitham Al Haddad speaking

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Original post by Lady Comstock
It's naive to believe that people are not influenced by, or act upon, comments which incite hatred against others, particularly when they are coming from someone who is a respected religious cleric.

Forgive Godwin's Law, but an entire nation was drawn in by Hitlers rabble-rousing speeches against Jews in the 1930s.



I disagree. In any event, freedom of speech is not unlimited in the US either.


This doesn't make sense. A threat to kill is not an assault. What about someone who threatens to kill another, but doesn't intend to carry it out, in a heat of annoyance? I just cannot see how you can make the distinction here based on your previous comments.

What's the difference between a cleric using such appalling language against gay people that a follower goes out and attacks a gay person, and someone saying "I am going to kill you" whilst drunk?




If people are influenced then it is the person who commits the act that is to blame. Genuine incitement is if someone is actively involved in the plotting of a crime. If someone says "kill that guy!" and hands someone else a knife then they can be held partially responsible. However saying a certain group should die that doesn't specially imply you are asking people to kill others and are actively involved a plot to harm them.
Religious texts contain threats to many groups (usually unbelievers or homosexuals) which should surely be owned if you wish to be consistent.
People are not just empty vessels that are corrupted by ideas, they choose to carry out specific acts.

Just because someone else may have led them to take an action does not mean they are responsible. Should we punish video game and movie producers for influencing people to commit violence?
It is certainly true that some people have been influence by films and games to commit acts of violence, but surely the moral agent himself is responsible for his own actions.
The distinction must be made when there is a immediate threat of violence to someone.


The events that lead to Hitler's rise cannot be compared to modern day liberal democracies. The entire nation was also not drawn into against Jews because of Hitler. They had no choice to obey as Hitler had anyone who dissented arrested. Of course Hitler made sure anyone who had contrary opinions unable to share their opinions.


The US's first Amendment is superior to the ECHR when it comes to free speech but it isn't the justification for it. The state is never justified in restricting it regardless of any 'human right' documents.
The 2nd clause of the ECHR on free speech specifically says when the state is justified in restrict these rights including nonsense like protecting 'public morals'.

In certain contexts a threat is a promise of an assault. If a guy down a dark alleyway says "Your money or your life" or "I'll gonna stab you' then you should assume they are serious and you should be able to defend yourself with deadly force. This is a direct promise of violence.

Of course saying the same things in the context of a play would not apply.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by jakeel1
It's sickening how even the most moderate Muslims seem to have a problem with homosexuality, it's becoming increasingly accepted in other religions (moderate Judaism has been acceptable for a while I think), I know solid conservative people at college (as in socially) and even they support it.


Do you know anything?, Islam doesn't recognise homosexuality, heterosexuality etc. They are viewed as human beings. It is merely the act of gay sex and specifically anal that are haram. You could technically identify as gay and be celibate and still be a better muslim than most people.

The reason why christianity and judaism accept it is due to ignoring parts of the torah or bible, that is why atheist's hate Islam so much. The Qur'an cannot be corrupted and we do not have a relgious figure such as the pope that change what he wants etc.
Original post by Kyou
Yeah I for one don't think that this person should be giving a speech to 300 students, especially if he's homophobic. Islam technically does permit homosexuality so him being anti-gay is kind of an insult to the hundreds of gay Muslims worldwide.


How does Islam permit homosexuality?
Original post by ridwan12
How does Islam permit homosexuality?

Young boys....,or atleast pre beard.
Original post by ridwan12
Do you know anything?, Islam doesn't recognise homosexuality, heterosexuality etc. They are viewed as human beings. It is merely the act of gay sex and specifically anal that are haram. You could technically identify as gay and be celibate and still be a better muslim than most people.

The reason why christianity and judaism accept it is due to ignoring parts of the torah or bible, that is why atheist's hate Islam so much. The Qur'an cannot be corrupted and we do not have a relgious figure such as the pope that change what he wants etc.


No, no, no, I think the question is: Do you know anything? That is nothing more than a disgusting excuse, the sort of doublespeak Muslims use to criticise Israel when they mean Jews.
Original post by MatureStudent36
Young boys....,or atleast pre beard.


Sodomy/anal is haram so......................
Original post by ridwan12
Sodomy/anal is haram so......................

It seems to be acceptable with pre pubescent boys in my experience.

But that may just be in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Reply 87
Original post by HAnwar
Where's the freedom of speech you were all banging on about a couple of weeks ago?


Erm. He cans say what he likes on the internet (within reason) but Unis can ban anyone they like
Reply 88
Original post by HAnwar
'The cartoons are not inciting hatred'
Lmao.

Posted from TSR Mobile


How are they? Has anyone murdered a muslim because of a cartoon?
Original post by jakeel1
No, no, no, I think the question is: Do you know anything? That is nothing more than a disgusting excuse, the sort of doublespeak Muslims use to criticise Israel when they mean Jews.


LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL


"doublespeak Muslims use to criticise Israel when they mean Jews"

so if I call out the human rights abuses by Israel I am really showing my hatred for jews??? :colondollar: made me chuckle

Once gain I have told you yes Islam and muslim's are against same gender sex, as are many religious people. I merely said that christianity and judiasm pick and choose what they want to believe in which is why atheist's hate Islam. :biggrin:

Your knowledge of Islam is poor as you said muslim's have a problem with homosexuality which we our religion doesn't even recognise......
Once again you could technically identify as gay and be celibate and still be a better muslim than most people.

I don't hate people who participate in same gender sex, but I do recognise it is a sin. It doesn't make me discriminate against them, hate them or abuse them. In fact I would so no difference between a drinker or a person who has same gender sex.

:smile:
Reply 90
Original post by queen-bee
No such thing if you're a muslim,double standards eh


You cannot incite hatred against group of people. You can however criticise a a political ideology.
Reply 91
Original post by Borgia
How are they? Has anyone murdered a muslim because of a cartoon?

who exactly do non-Muslims consider in a high regard compared to the Muslims?
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 92
Original post by kyoti
who exactly do non-Muslims consider in a high regard compared to the Muslims?


There is on one figure that black white brown yellow pink male female gay straight old young right wing left wing non muslims hold in hi regard.
Original post by HAnwar
Last time I checked the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم‎ was a person.

And ideas should have something called respect.


Respect is earned, not given. How do people still not know this?

Original post by HAnwar
Respect should only be earned when you've done something that makes others lose respect for you.


That isn't how respect works.

Original post by al_94
He should have definitely been more articulate with his words but banning him from speaking many people believe goes against free speech. There is even a petition to support him speaking here:

https://www.change.org/p/university-of-westminster-university-of-westminster-student-s-union-lgbti-student-society-at-westminster-university-don-t-restrict-free-speech-on-university-campuses


I'm not sure being more articulate would help. He'd still be spewing the same ****.


Original post by Sabertooth
Makes me wonder where the usual unwashed lefties who vigorously "no platform" people from the "far-right" are. :beard:


This.
Original post by ridwan12
Sodomy/anal is haram so......................


But apparently marrying underage girls isn't.
Original post by JG1233
I cringed reading this article.

We are very quickly adopting a attitude if a majority (usually the left wing) don't like something, it should be just banned or censored. Whilst i don't agree with his message i also don't agree with a massive amount of people, doesn't mean i don't think they should be allowed to hold their views.


^This. +1
Original post by thunder_chunky
But apparently marrying underage girls isn't.


Well it is though.....
Reply 97
Original post by ridwan12
Well it is though.....


it isn't....
Original post by Borgia
it isn't....

it is.....
Original post by thunder_chunky
But apparently marrying underage girls isn't.


It is, that's why its a universal practice in countries with majority Islam.

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