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Child Genii at Oxbridge

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ThornsnRoses

I feel sorry for all these kids...theyre not geniuses...anyone could do what they did if your parents forced you to do 10 hours of work from the age of 2! Take the interview with ruth lawerence...she couldnt even talk properly...it was like her father had put words into her mouth...i really do pity her. What is she doing with her life? She's a maths professor and a mother, she still couldve been those things if she went to university at the normal age. All she did was miss out on a the whole of her childhood and everything that is normal.

I'm willing to conceed that they were all unusually bright for their age, but the fact of the matter is that intelligence doesn't vary THAT drastically from one person to another. At the end of the day for them to even convincingly achieve the academic standards of individuals ten times their age their 'classical' intelligence is always achieved at the expense of other forms of mental development. I don't buy into this 'EQ' nonsense but it doesn't seem like coincidence to me that the lower the age at which they were catapulted to 'genius' status the greater the degree of social maladjustment they suffered.

Reply 41

mussed

Faboba

Please tell me you didn't get an A.

In the prelim and in the coursework, yes, but this was in 2000 and they lost all the papers from my centre. Everyone, including me, got a C. :: laughs ::

Reply 42

mussed

Faboba

Intelligence does. Believe me. But yeah, their 'EQ' so to speak (I don't buy into this either, although apparently my score has shot up in this since I stopped doing so much work - it entertains my mum :smile:

). These people DO NOT have happy lives. That is the end of it.

And anyway how can they enjoy university if they have no chance of getting served?! :biggrin:

Reply 43

DC_1234

mussed

In the prelim and in the coursework, yes, but this was in 2000 and they lost all the papers from my centre. Everyone, including me, got a C. :: laughs ::

Phew! I thought for a second a thirteen year old beat me.

But... uh... Glandular Fever.... extenuating circumstances.... other ego airbags....

Reply 44

d750

ThornsnRoses

She's a maths professor and a mother, she still couldve been those things if she went to university at the normal age. All she did was miss out on a the whole of her childhood and everything that is normal.

Yeah, what's the point in rushing through things? As long as you learn the techniques for assimilating new information while you're a kid, you have the whole of your adult life to use them.

Reply 45

mussed

Faboba

Phew! I thought for a second a thirteen year old beat me.

But... uh... Glandular Fever.... extenuating circumstances.... other ego airbags....

No, I didn't. Glandular fever. You should never have mentioned that... :smile:

MY glands are all swollen right now and I am freaking out to high heaven.

Oxford want an A in Maths, minimum, an A in Further if you can manage it. Put it this way: I was at St Anne's open day maths table and one of the boys, who was German, told the tutor he had done his Abitur with a B in maths. The tutor said, and I quote, that "a B in maths is pretty much unforgivable".

Anyway, you can teach people to a B - even an A - in A Level Maths. It doesn't prove he's a genuis, just that he's been coached.

Reply 46

alex8712

http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/08/25/sprj.sch.wonder.kid.ap/

Here is another prodigy who went to medical school in America at age 12. As a side note, one applies to medical school as a graduate program in the US after obtaining a 4 year undergraduate degree. Medical school is typically 4 years long, though Sho is in an dual MD/PhD program which will likely take him 8 years to complete.

Reply 47

DC_1234

mussed

No, I didn't. Glandular fever. You should never have mentioned that... :smile:

MY glands are all swollen right now and I am freaking out to high heaven.

I'd go see a doctor if you're worried but the most obvious symptom of Glandular fever ( and indeed of ME ) is an overpowering feeling of lethargy. It's hard to describe to someone that hasn't experienced it but you know that feeling in the mornings when you've just woken up and don't want to get out of bed; well with Glandular fever you are simply unable to summon the energy to give you that boost to overcome the feeling.

That said, as illnesses go it's pretty sweet. Just a bit of a bummer you got it at the end of term - the beginning is the time for it IMHO.

alex8712

Yes, but how is he at Kanasta?

Reply 48

mussed

alex8712

Weird. Medicine is one of those things you need to be old enough for - you need the vocational thing and the practical skills and such.

Incidentally, if you don't have the empathy thing you will never be a good doctor - although if they're doing the MD/PhD they probably intend to do research, they'll still need contact with patients. :s-smilie:

Faboba

Yes! I ended up having had a cocktail of things, but yes, it was almost impossible to move downstairs. :smile:

Reply 49

JrW

an economics teacher at my school went to oxford when he was 15....he started teaching in september and he has now decided to quit teaching and go to work in the city at 20........quite a genius

Reply 50

happysunshine

Sally Webster wants Rosie to go and study Maths at Oxford. :tongue:

Not that this is a real life example or anything.

Reply 51

DC_1234

jamierwilliams

an economics teacher at my school went to oxford when he was 15....he started teaching in september and he has now decided to quit teaching and go to work in the city at 20........quite a genius

Wow! That's pretty terrific! Now he can be another guy with a suit and a mercedes in London. Nothing like capitalising on a head start!

Reply 52

Mysticmin

jamierwilliams

an economics teacher at my school went to oxford when he was 15....he started teaching in september and he has now decided to quit teaching and go to work in the city at 20........quite a genius

Bl***y hell!
That's a really young teacher...would cause complete havoc at my school :biggrin:

I'm lost for words, how scary, would you want to teach people who were very close to your own age in a formal environment?

Reply 53

etomac

The teenager - who never went to school and was tutored by her father Harry Lawrence - said that the result was much as she had expected.

so she started maths and only do maths
I think everyone can do such a thing

Reply 54

DC_1234

etomac

Hmmmm... you should start a thread on that. :wink:

Reply 55

etomac

Faboba

Hmmmm... you should start a thread on that. :wink:

nevermind.. itz ok

Reply 56

emom100

even if they delay this kids clinical training for two years he will be seeing patients when he's 14 or 15. If I was in hospital and a 14 year old came up to me i would think they were taking the piss. I feel really sorry for teh 7 year old kid though, he must be really skrewed up now poor thing.

Reply 57

CHilL

from times.co.uk April 1
A family of five taught at home have become
mathematical prodigies. Report by Moira Petty

Brains of Britain

The advanced algebraic equations flow
smoothly on to the page as Zuleika Yusof works
through an A-level maths textbook. As I peep
over her shoulder she maintains the
concentration of one due to sit A levels in maths
next year and begin university that autumn.

The session over, Zuleika gets up from her
desk, chases her cat across the room, then
bounces on her brother's bed, drumming her
heels on the wall. Strange behaviour for a
putative undergraduate of 18 months' time - but
Zuleika turned 5 in January.

Her academic progress is so rapid that she is
being assessed every month by her parents,
Farooq, 41, and Halimahton Yusof, 42, who
have taught all their children at home. All five
could read by 2, and Sufiah, now 14, equalled
Ruth Lawrence's record of enrolling at Oxford
University at 13, "though she was ready four or
five years before that", says Mr Yusof.

Iskander, 12, and Noraisha, 16, are at Warwick
University. All three are reading mathematics.
Only the eldest, 17-year-old Isaac, is not yet at
university, though he sat his A levels at 15. He
is showing signs of becoming an entrepreneur:
"He'll be the first to make a million," says his
mother.

But it is doll-like Zuleika who most astonishes.
She has just read Huckleberry Finn and
recently zoomed through a Roald Dahl in 20
minutes - "but she had read it before", says Mr
Yusof.

"If she's not at university until 8, that might not
be too late but we hope she will soon be
attending Warwick with her brother and sister,"
he adds.

Though her work in maths is carefully
structured, other subjects are approached almost
arbitrarily but pursued in depth. She became
interested in dinosaurs after a trip to the Science
Museum and told me how a meteor wiped them
out by destroying the food chain. Having studied
human anatomy, she drew an outline of a
dinosaur then placed all organs within it. She
once wanted to be a palaeontologist but is now
enthralled by horses. "I want to be a
riding-school instructor," she says.

Like her siblings, she rarely mixes with children
of her own age. "Sometimes you feel it's an
injustice we are imposing on her," says Mr
Yusof. "But children have taken books from her
hand and torn them." Mrs Yusof, who directs
the children's education until the pre-university
stage, says: "If children make noise in the
library, she says 'How dare they?' She sounds
quite pompous but she wants to focus."

Mr Yusof says of teaching his older children: "I
may have made too many demands in terms of
time; maybe we could have done things
differently. Now we have the opposite worries.
The other night Iskander was studying until 4am
and I did wonder if that was right for a
12-year-old. He wouldn't even come down to
watch Horizon. They certainly haven't time for
soaps, and you won't find records in their
rooms."

Mr Yusof came here from Pakistan aged 6. His
father was an academic and he himself gained a
scholarship to Magdalen College, Oxford, to
read maths. He met his future wife, who is from
Malaysia and a chemistry graduate, when both
were doing research at Hull University.

They put their first two children in the university
nursery when they were toddlers. "From birth
we made efforts to introduce them to letters and
numbers," says Mr Yusof. "They soon showed
signs of wanting to read." There have been no
behavioural problems: "They were welcomed
wherever they went. Other parents tried to
model their children on them and there were
invitations in the hope that they would exert
peer influence. People think we spent hours
with them but they occupied themselves."

When the three eldest were 8, 7 and 5 they
were enrolled at a state primary. "That lasted
three months," says Mr Yusof. "The school
tried to make provision with extracurricular
activities. They made Sufiah, who was 5, take
responsibility for helping older children. She had
written a CV about herself before starting and
the staff took her to their hearts. At 8, Isaac was
working through the maths GCSE syllabus."

In 1987 Mr Yusof gave up full-time work and,
surviving on family money and savings, began
to teach at home. He will not reveal his
techniques in full but says: "We were restricted
financially so we had to find creative means to
get results. We made huge three and
four-dimensional figures and later most of the
work was done on a blackboard in the sitting
room. There were no timetables or targets.
There was always time for cuddles. We take
account of their needs and are there for them.

"Libraries were a second home. If they wanted
to read Enid Blyton, they were allowed to. We
would exercise care only if they started to
internalise certain undesirable practices in the
use of English. As they've got older they
sometimes don't want us to interfere; they need
to make their own mistakes."

There have been no problems with his children
going to university. The family met Ruth
Lawrence when Sufiah applied "off her own
bat" to Oxford. "Ruth said Sufiah should see
Oxford as a challenge."

The Yusofs are Muslims, and believe their faith
and family values help the children when faced
with the temptations of undergraduate life.
"Alcohol and drugs were never part of their
lives. We trust our children and no subject is
taboo. We don't want them walking into areas
through ignorance. Sex is subject to limitations
of their ages. As a family we have hobbies and a
lot of our time is spent with friends and family."

The four older children are also ranked among
the top ten junior tennis players in Britain.
Before "maths took over from tennis", as Mrs
Yusof puts it, the children went to tournaments
without their parents. "You get partisan crowds
and they learnt to survive or sink. If we have
fears for their safety, they giggle, shake their
heads, then off they go," says Mr Yusof.

He adds that his children often outwit him.
"Sufiah plays mental games with us and makes
us feel past our sell-by date. Prove this,
establish that, she says. If I find books flung
around in her room, she'll pick me up on chaos
theory and tell me there is a structure there."

When Noraisha and Iskander joined Warwick,
chosen for its reputation in maths, the family left
Northampton and moved into a rented semi
opposite the campus in Coventry. Noraisha,
"very much a social creature", has a circle of
friends "who pour out their troubles to her. She
has a divergent personality - very creative.
When she was little she would leave footprints
all over the carpet, painting with her feet.

"She is interested in biological sciences and is
building mathematical models of blood and
tissue. Before it accepted her, Warwick tested
her on subjects like genetics."

Iskander rushes past on his way to a lecture
with a polite grunt. "He is too busy for more
than monosyllables," says Mr Yusof. "He's a
mathematician's mathematician."

Noraisha went through a phase of "wanting her
hair cut a certain way" but none of the girls now
cares about fashion. But Mr Yusof says: "We
are keen to present ourselves as being normal.
We don't want labels put on us."

The family is fiercely competitive. Zuleika asks
her siblings for their university assessment
marks, sometimes pronouncing: "Can't you do
better than that? I'll write to your professor."
Sufiah, when tiny, raced her uncles to complete
a jigsaw, but did it upside-down. Zuleika
recently dragged a stool into the toilet as a prop
for a book. "Like the others, she won't waste
her time just sitting there," says Mrs Yusof.

They were recently invited on a lecture tour of
Malaysia, where they talked about their life
before audiences of thousands. There have been
requests from education ministries overseas to
give advice and offers of funding so they can set
up their own institution. "We feel we can help
the population at large, and improve universities'
methods," says Mr Yusof.

The family may move to America - "we're
considering Harvard for postgraduate study" -
but already the children have been approached
by multinational companies. Zuleika,
meanwhile, plays with a toy while explaining the
difference between carnivores, herbivores and
omnivores. Already she is at home on campus;
she has joined the maths and Malaysian
societies. There is little doubt that she will
shoulder responsibilities earlier than most
children. Mrs Yusof says: "I feel a loss because
my children are disappearing quickly. Most
mothers lose them at 18; mine are going out into
the world younger and younger." She looks
downcast, then brightens: "But we'll have all the
grandchildren to look after and educate."

Reply 58

Wasp39

I think the advantage this family have over the rest of us is they are actually multidimensional beings from another universe (Possibly like the mice in Hitchhiker!) - The section of that article below confirms this! :biggrin:

In 1987 Mr Yusof gave up full-time work and,
surviving on family money and savings, began
to teach at home. He will not reveal his
techniques in full but says: "We were restricted
financially so we had to find creative means to
get results. We made huge three and
four-dimensional figures :eek:

and later most of the
work was done on a blackboard in the sitting
room. There were no timetables or targets.
There was always time for cuddles. We take
account of their needs and are there for them.