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Original post by Manitude
Why has OP circle Danish territory in the North Atlantic?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faroe_Islands


We're going to invade it 'to protect the fish'. :colone:
Original post by Rakas21
I don't think democracy or liberalism keeps us from war, being nuclear capable (even Japan for example fits this because it can go nuclear inside 3 months should it see fit) and rich (lots to lose from going to war with somebody that could actually fire back at us) does.


Not sure i'd agree entirely with you on that, although you're right about nuclear weapons.


As much as people dislike social engineering it's actually not that hard over a generation or two to engineer a society that would support war. For a tame example, look at support for gay people and anti-racism, largely engineered rather than an organic opinion.


The Point of a Liberal Democracy is that there are institutions present to protect us from this sort of thing. I disagree with your point on racism and homosexuality, how was it engineered?

Yes I know, the US managed to turn itself crazy post 2001 but that wasn't against another Liberal Democratic state.
I love how viewpoints someone dislikes are always 'engineered', but those that match their own are 'organic'. It's a wonderful way of looking at the world.
Original post by Davij038
Not sure i'd agree entirely with you on that, although you're right about nuclear weapons.

The Point of a Liberal Democracy is that there are institutions present to protect us from this sort of thing. I disagree with your point on racism and homosexuality, how was it engineered?

Yes I know, the US managed to turn itself crazy post 2001 but that wasn't against another Liberal Democratic state.


An organic evolution to me is a change in attitudes over time of societies own volition like being against ground troops today. Support for homosexuals and non-white Brits was somewhat engineered because these views were indoctrinated at school age before society as a whole had dropped such opinions. That's not a bad thing per say, but i do consider it the product of engineering rather than a lovely change over time in peoples views.
Original post by gladders
I love how viewpoints someone dislikes are always 'engineered', but those that match their own are 'organic'. It's a wonderful way of looking at the world.


I support gay marriage and oppose racism.
Original post by Rakas21
I support gay marriage and oppose racism.


But your premise is flawed. All views are the product of debate and education, sometimes one, sometimes both. Whether it's taught at schools or acquired from your peers, or a discovery late in life doesn't make it any less valid or undermines it. There's nothing 'engineered' about public opinion on gay marriage. It's that one side won through being better at debating and transmitting its message.
Original post by Rakas21
An organic evolution to me is a change in attitudes over time of societies own volition like being against ground troops today. Support for homosexuals and non-white Brits was somewhat engineered because these views were indoctrinated at school age before society as a whole had dropped such opinions. That's not a bad thing per say, but i do consider it the product of engineering rather than a lovely change over time in peoples views.


I guess I can see where you're coming from.

If thats the case though most of the preceding views were engineered also (It could be said! Im not really concerned about it to be honest!)

There's no such thing as society!
Original post by Davij038
As you don't know what it is let me explain: Its that Liberal Democracies don't go to war with each other: Imperial Germany was certainly not a liberal democracy! Its also why despite everything, the US and the UK have become Chief allies not very long after the war of independence.

I'm also unsure as to your point about WW1, whats your issue, that we should have stayed out of it? Given your previous points I find that hard to believe.


What do you a Liberal democracy? Democracies have gone to war before.

There were no liberal democracy in WW1.

No the reason for that is the British were more threatened by the Soviet Union in the North Sea, than the US in North America. The reason why Britain and France became allies was fear of Germany. Being a democracy or liberal has nothing to do with it.

We should have made peace with Germany in 1915-1916.
Original post by Davij038
To anyone not familiar with IR Jargon, Walker here sees himself as a "Realist".

Although certainly interesting, I thinks its past its sell by date, it didnt fathom how Russia could have lost the cold war (Because it doesnt take account of policies, people, economies etc only positions of interest).

Its why Putin will eventually lose.


It is because Russia has terrible demographics because the "liberal" famine after the fall of the Soviet Union. Russia with a growing population would win, because it could play the long game and not use its military.
Original post by Manitude
Why has OP circle Danish territory in the North Atlantic?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faroe_Islands


Because of its strategic location.
Original post by Davij038
Not sure i'd agree entirely with you on that, although you're right about nuclear weapons.



The Point of a Liberal Democracy is that there are institutions present to protect us from this sort of thing. I disagree with your point on racism and homosexuality, how was it engineered?

Yes I know, the US managed to turn itself crazy post 2001 but that wasn't against another Liberal Democratic state.


What about the Troubles?
Original post by william walker
What about the Troubles?


What about them?

It was a case of Civil unrest more than anything. It certainly wasn't war.
Original post by william walker
It is because Russia has terrible demographics because the "liberal" famine after the fall of the Soviet Union. Russia with a growing population would win, because it could play the long game and not use its military.



But thats what could have happened, not what did happen.

...And thats why Realism fails, its more about ideology than accuracy.
Original post by william walker
What do you a Liberal democracy? Democracies have gone to war before.


A liberal democracy:

Judicial equality (civic rights such as freedom of speech plus Religion)
A representative and elected legislature
The right to private property and means of production
Economies are largely shaped by supply and demand.



There were no liberal democracy in WW1.

.

Although flawed, the US, UK, France, Denmark, Switzerland are all largely seen as liberal states.
Original post by Davij038
What about them?

It was a case of Civil unrest more than anything. It certainly wasn't war.


30 year proxy war between Britain and Ireland is what it was.
Original post by Davij038
But thats what could have happened, not what did happen.

...And thats why Realism fails, its more about ideology than accuracy.


The realism is that Russia was destroyed because of Liberalism, which caused it to have a massive famine. Which is why the Russians hate Liberalism, as it is put forward by US.
Original post by Davij038
A liberal democracy:

Judicial equality (civic rights such as freedom of speech plus Religion)
A representative and elected legislature
The right to private property and means of production
Economies are largely shaped by supply and demand.




Although flawed, the US, UK, France, Denmark, Switzerland are all largely seen as liberal states.


So the war of 1812. Germany was Liberal by your definition then. It had equality under the law, a Parliament, property rights and an economy governed largely by the market.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_%28German_Empire%29
Original post by william walker
So the war of 1812. Germany was Liberal by your definition then. It had equality under the law, a Parliament, property rights and an economy governed largely by the market.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_%28German_Empire%29


Not quite, it wasnt a constitutional Monarchy like ours. The Kaiser and the Army were in charge of foreign policy.
Original post by william walker
The realism is that Russia was destroyed because of Liberalism, which caused it to have a massive famine. Which is why the Russians hate Liberalism, as it is put forward by US.



What particular famine?

Soviet Incompetence for the most part.

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