Could Women Cope With The Amount Of Sexual Rejection Men Cope With ?
A guy called Warren Farrell tried a role-reversal that will terrify most women in which men took on a women’s role, and women took on a man’s role. The feminists LOVED him for the role reversal experiments he did with men, and HATED him for the role reversal experiments he did with women.
Role Reversal For Women
He had the women ask men out. Women had to call the man, plan the evening, and initiate every step of the date.
The men were told to be entirely passive, putting the burden of the evening on the woman. It was up to the women to risk rejection for any physical or sexual contact she wanted, with the men accepting or rejecting the women’s advances.
Many of the women said they were unable to listen to what the man was saying because they were so worried about getting rejected. Instead of connecting with men, the women found themselves constantly thinking “How do I get this guy not to say no?”
Every time I’ve told this story to man, he’s burst out laughing in recognition. Just as most women worry about their looks, most men worry about getting rejected.
Role Reversal For Men
Warren had men participate in a beauty contest. Male contestants had to present themselves shirtless, and have women vote on who was the most attractive.
At first, the men loved the attention. However, as men began to get voted off for being less attractive than other contestants, the men became self-conscious. They felt hurt and rejected when they were voted off.
After the experiment, the men had a greater understanding of the insecurity women experience around their body.
Double Standards
While the men were willing to do the beauty contest, most of feminists, even after watching the men go through the beauty contest, walked out when it came time to participate in the role-reversal date.
While women’s issues with body image are constantly explored in mass media, very little has been written about men’s issues with rejection that isn’t demeaning or shaming.
The only group that treat’s men’s fear of rejection with anything resembling empathy is the pick up industry. It’s not surprising given the amount of rejection men face.
If women expect men to understand their struggles with body image, they should also seek to understand men’s issues with rejection and game.
Most women who criticize men’s pick-up tactics have never tried to approach a stranger, win their trust, and ask them out. My intention isn’t to give up roles, but simply to understand the others experience better and I wouldn’t want to change either.
Role Reversal For Women
He had the women ask men out. Women had to call the man, plan the evening, and initiate every step of the date.
The men were told to be entirely passive, putting the burden of the evening on the woman. It was up to the women to risk rejection for any physical or sexual contact she wanted, with the men accepting or rejecting the women’s advances.
Many of the women said they were unable to listen to what the man was saying because they were so worried about getting rejected. Instead of connecting with men, the women found themselves constantly thinking “How do I get this guy not to say no?”
Every time I’ve told this story to man, he’s burst out laughing in recognition. Just as most women worry about their looks, most men worry about getting rejected.
Role Reversal For Men
Warren had men participate in a beauty contest. Male contestants had to present themselves shirtless, and have women vote on who was the most attractive.
At first, the men loved the attention. However, as men began to get voted off for being less attractive than other contestants, the men became self-conscious. They felt hurt and rejected when they were voted off.
After the experiment, the men had a greater understanding of the insecurity women experience around their body.
Double Standards
While the men were willing to do the beauty contest, most of feminists, even after watching the men go through the beauty contest, walked out when it came time to participate in the role-reversal date.
While women’s issues with body image are constantly explored in mass media, very little has been written about men’s issues with rejection that isn’t demeaning or shaming.
The only group that treat’s men’s fear of rejection with anything resembling empathy is the pick up industry. It’s not surprising given the amount of rejection men face.
If women expect men to understand their struggles with body image, they should also seek to understand men’s issues with rejection and game.
Most women who criticize men’s pick-up tactics have never tried to approach a stranger, win their trust, and ask them out. My intention isn’t to give up roles, but simply to understand the others experience better and I wouldn’t want to change either.
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...... So much an exclusivist approach to identity on this forum.
What so it's not possible to be both feminist and approach men now?
I approach guys I like if I happen to see someone who stands out. Mainly because the sorts of men who see approaching women as a game says it all really. It's not a sport/entertainment; that attitude is a great disrespect to whoever you're speaking to. I'm not walking up to everyone, dangling my bait in the hope that anyone will bite.
What so it's not possible to be both feminist and approach men now?
I approach guys I like if I happen to see someone who stands out. Mainly because the sorts of men who see approaching women as a game says it all really. It's not a sport/entertainment; that attitude is a great disrespect to whoever you're speaking to. I'm not walking up to everyone, dangling my bait in the hope that anyone will bite.
Maybe if some guys wouldn't just throw their dick at anyone with two X chromosomes and a pulse, they wouldn't get rejected as much.
Original post by crozibear96
Maybe if some guys wouldn't just throw their dick at anyone with two X chromosomes and a pulse, they wouldn't get rejected as much.
Law of Averages, surely?
Original post by stargirl63
Law of Averages, surely?
The thing with a shotgun approach is that it quickly becomes apparent to the person being approached that they aren't being appreciated as an individual. Knowing that you're being approached for a "result" rather than because someone actually sees something unique about you as a person can make you feel inconsequential... just a number. Noone wants to feel like that.
You can tell when guys approach with that kind of mentality. The conversation is very one way (or it feels like it's being steered aggressively rather than flowing organically) and the content is usually hackneyed, clichéd, generalized....a bit rehearsed. A spiele.
If you're being a lot more selective and spontaneous, there's just something more genuine, personal and real about the interaction. It's all about intention really. Are you looking to get a number just because you want to have the self validation that you can get it OR do you really want to connect with that particular person and get to know them?
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by stargirl63
Law of Averages, surely?
But if the 'law of averages' is making you feel bad because of constant rejection then surely it makes sense to stop?
In the same way that you don't carry on eating wheat after you're diagnosed with coeliac disease...
Posted from TSR Mobile
No body cares about men. Its Biology we are dispensable and becoming more and more so day by day.
Acquire Currency
Acquire Aesthetics
Become a borderline psychopath and voila you have reached your potential as a man.
Bang an escort while smiling at yourself in the mirror. That is the only approval you can ask for.
Acquire Currency
Acquire Aesthetics
Become a borderline psychopath and voila you have reached your potential as a man.
Bang an escort while smiling at yourself in the mirror. That is the only approval you can ask for.
Original post by Eveiebaby
The thing with a shotgun approach is that it quickly becomes apparent to the person being approached that they aren't being appreciated as an individual. Knowing that you're being approached for a "result" rather than because someone actually sees something unique about you as a person can make you feel inconsequential... just a number. Noone wants to feel like that.
You can tell when guys approach with that kind of mentality. The conversation is very one way (or it feels like it's being steered aggressively rather than flowing organically) and the content is usually hackneyed, clichéd, generalized....a bit rehearsed. A spiele.
If you're being a lot more selective and spontaneous, there's just something more genuine, personal and real about the interaction. It's all about intention really. Are you looking to get a number just because you want to have the self validation that you can get it OR do you really want to connect with that particular person and get to know them?
You can tell when guys approach with that kind of mentality. The conversation is very one way (or it feels like it's being steered aggressively rather than flowing organically) and the content is usually hackneyed, clichéd, generalized....a bit rehearsed. A spiele.
If you're being a lot more selective and spontaneous, there's just something more genuine, personal and real about the interaction. It's all about intention really. Are you looking to get a number just because you want to have the self validation that you can get it OR do you really want to connect with that particular person and get to know them?
I 100% understand what you mean. But the thing is, if you genuinely talk to everyone like they are the first and only person you talk to, then they wouldn't feel like it's "rehearsed" or generic. Part of my job means that I send out emails and speak to a number of customers everyday, usually with the same thing - but each customer is different, and I approach them differently, even though I'm calling for the same objective.
Original post by xloichan
But if the 'law of averages' is making you feel bad because of constant rejection then surely it makes sense to stop?
In the same way that you don't carry on eating wheat after you're diagnosed with coeliac disease...
Posted from TSR Mobile
In the same way that you don't carry on eating wheat after you're diagnosed with coeliac disease...
Posted from TSR Mobile
Thing is, if you stop, you're never going to find anyone. At least if you're trying, then there is a chance that you will get somewhere. Also, I don't think what a stranger thinks about you really makes too much of a difference to your life, you're not losing a hell of a lot. Not to mention there's a possibility of sex.
Original post by stargirl63
Thing is, if you stop, you're never going to find anyone. At least if you're trying, then there is a chance that you will get somewhere. Also, I don't think what a stranger thinks about you really makes too much of a difference to your life, you're not losing a hell of a lot. Not to mention there's a possibility of sex.
Thing is, if you stop, you're never going to find anyone. At least if you're trying, then there is a chance that you will get somewhere. Also, I don't think what a stranger thinks about you really makes too much of a difference to your life, you're not losing a hell of a lot. Not to mention there's a possibility of sex.
Idk, I disagree you'll never find someone - there are women out there that pursue as well. Might take longer, but if that's the price to pay for not being constantly upset by rejection as the OP is claiming I'd gladly take it.
I agree with your second paragraph personally. My argument is against the OP is saying it does make a difference and the constant rejection is so awful...just to make myself clear, as with anything in life people need to weigh risk against reward.
People need to decide if they want to approach strangers (and potentially deal with rejection) or not (and potentially lose out on sex). It's part of being an adult. The alternative is to disallow people from rejecting the advances of others which is plainly ridiculous.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Fear of rejection for men is something that must be overcome. It separates the weak from the chaff.
Equally, women should stop requiring validation from random men visa vi their appearance. Of course they should still look attractive, but they should feel attractive regardless of male opinion.
Equally, women should stop requiring validation from random men visa vi their appearance. Of course they should still look attractive, but they should feel attractive regardless of male opinion.
Original post by stargirl63
I 100% understand what you mean. But the thing is, if you genuinely talk to everyone like they are the first and only person you talk to, then they wouldn't feel like it's "rehearsed" or generic. Part of my job means that I send out emails and speak to a number of customers everyday, usually with the same thing - but each customer is different, and I approach them differently, even though I'm calling for the same objective.
Thing is, if you stop, you're never going to find anyone. At least if you're trying, then there is a chance that you will get somewhere. Also, I don't think what a stranger thinks about you really makes too much of a difference to your life, you're not losing a hell of a lot. Not to mention there's a possibility of sex.
Thing is, if you stop, you're never going to find anyone. At least if you're trying, then there is a chance that you will get somewhere. Also, I don't think what a stranger thinks about you really makes too much of a difference to your life, you're not losing a hell of a lot. Not to mention there's a possibility of sex.
My point applies to those who chat up a lot of people as a kind of self-validation tactic not those who have genuine interest in the individuals they are speaking to. It is very difficult to maintain conversation without sounding vague if you're essentially not interested in the character of the person you're talking to. You're less likely to pick up on their cues and idiosyncrasies.
Original post by crozibear96
Maybe if some guys wouldn't just throw their dick at anyone with two X chromosomes and a pulse, they wouldn't get rejected as much.
That's like trying to justify islamaphobia by saying 'maybe if some muslims didn't fly planes into buildings maybe the wouldn't be abused as much'
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Eveiebaby
My point applies to those who chat up a lot of people as a kind of self-validation tactic not those who have genuine interest in the individuals they are speaking to. It is very difficult to maintain conversation without sounding vague if you're essentially not interested in the character of the person you're talking to. You're less likely to pick up on their cues and idiosyncrasies.
of course! 100% agree. However, I'm not sure how many people are chatting up someone having 0%interest in them...isn't that a waste of time? I just feel that if there is that small bit of interest in the beginning, speaking or approaching them would help you decide if you have more or less interest by the end.
Original post by xloichan
Idk, I disagree you'll never find someone - there are women out there that pursue as well. Might take longer, but if that's the price to pay for not being constantly upset by rejection as the OP is claiming I'd gladly take it.
I agree with your second paragraph personally. My argument is against the OP is saying it does make a difference and the constant rejection is so awful...just to make myself clear, as with anything in life people need to weigh risk against reward.
People need to decide if they want to approach strangers (and potentially deal with rejection) or not (and potentially lose out on sex). It's part of being an adult. The alternative is to disallow people from rejecting the advances of others which is plainly ridiculous.
Posted from TSR Mobile
I agree with your second paragraph personally. My argument is against the OP is saying it does make a difference and the constant rejection is so awful...just to make myself clear, as with anything in life people need to weigh risk against reward.
People need to decide if they want to approach strangers (and potentially deal with rejection) or not (and potentially lose out on sex). It's part of being an adult. The alternative is to disallow people from rejecting the advances of others which is plainly ridiculous.
Posted from TSR Mobile
I agree that you need to weigh risk and reward. Rejection is awful, but there's a lot of people in the world who genuinely aren't bothered. They take things on the chin, "what do they have to lose" approach. A lot aren't going to go home and cry about a rejection. It is what it is. If you're more sensitive, then maybe you should be a little more selective.
Also, I have to say that women don't make it any easier. Many girls push guys down hard when they show interest, it's quite rude, in the name of "being honest".
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Eveiebaby
The thing with a shotgun approach is that it quickly becomes apparent to the person being approached that they aren't being appreciated as an individual. Knowing that you're being approached for a "result" rather than because someone actually sees something unique about you as a person can make you feel inconsequential... just a number. Noone wants to feel like that.
You can tell when guys approach with that kind of mentality. The conversation is very one way (or it feels like it's being steered aggressively rather than flowing organically) and the content is usually hackneyed, clichéd, generalized....a bit rehearsed. A spiele.
If you're being a lot more selective and spontaneous, there's just something more genuine, personal and real about the interaction. It's all about intention really. Are you looking to get a number just because you want to have the self validation that you can get it OR do you really want to connect with that particular person and get to know them?
You can tell when guys approach with that kind of mentality. The conversation is very one way (or it feels like it's being steered aggressively rather than flowing organically) and the content is usually hackneyed, clichéd, generalized....a bit rehearsed. A spiele.
If you're being a lot more selective and spontaneous, there's just something more genuine, personal and real about the interaction. It's all about intention really. Are you looking to get a number just because you want to have the self validation that you can get it OR do you really want to connect with that particular person and get to know them?
Just throwing it out there: http://tranifesto.com/2010/03/04/its-the-testosterone-what-straight-women-should-know/
Original post by Smaug123
Just throwing it out there: http://tranifesto.com/2010/03/04/its-the-testosterone-what-straight-women-should-know/
Interesting article. But it also explains why I prefer to avoid the men that exhibit that type of goal seeking behaviour and instead initiate with men who are less bold. Maybe they have less testosterone, maybe they don't.
I know one thing, though and that is that I dislike testosterone driven behaviour in general. Traditional "lads" are such a turn off to me. Straight up, I PREFER men who are less sex driven; they make much more rounded and loyal long term partners in my opinion. The last thing I want if I'm for whatever reason, temporarily incapacitated and not able to be sexual is to worry about them being so desperate and selfish that they feel the need to sleep with someone behind my back. Hell to the no.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Eveiebaby
Interesting article. But it also explains why I prefer to avoid the men that exhibit that type of goal seeking behaviour and instead initiate with men who are less bold. Maybe they have less testosterone, maybe they don't.
I know one thing, though and that is that I dislike testosterone driven behaviour in general. Traditional "lads" are such a turn off to me. Straight up, I PREFER men who are less sex driven; they make much more rounded and loyal long term partners in my opinion. The last thing I want if I'm for whatever reason, temporarily incapacitated and not able to be sexual is to worry about them being so desperate and selfish that they feel the need to sleep with someone behind my back. Hell to the no.
I know one thing, though and that is that I dislike testosterone driven behaviour in general. Traditional "lads" are such a turn off to me. Straight up, I PREFER men who are less sex driven; they make much more rounded and loyal long term partners in my opinion. The last thing I want if I'm for whatever reason, temporarily incapacitated and not able to be sexual is to worry about them being so desperate and selfish that they feel the need to sleep with someone behind my back. Hell to the no.
I'm forever slightly surprised by people's strong insistence on loyalty and monoamory. Each to their own, I suppose.
Most of the replies miss the point of this thread entirely.
Although true, this is irrelevant.
Original post by crozibear96
Maybe if some guys wouldn't just throw their dick at anyone with two X chromosomes and a pulse, they wouldn't get rejected as much.
Although true, this is irrelevant.
Original post by Cremated_Spatula
Most of the replies miss the point of this thread entirely.
Naturally. It's a thread about feminism. When was there ever a thread about feminism that stayed on topic?
Original post by Smaug123
Naturally. It's a thread about feminism. When was there ever a thread about feminism that stayed on topic?
I'd be hard pressed to find one, if there was one.
Original post by Rakas21
Fear of rejection for men is something that must be overcome. It separates the weak from the chaff.
Equally, women should stop requiring validation from random men visa vi their appearance. Of course they should still look attractive, but they should feel attractive regardless of male opinion.
Equally, women should stop requiring validation from random men visa vi their appearance. Of course they should still look attractive, but they should feel attractive regardless of male opinion.
But practically, is it possible?
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