What feminism truly means...

Okay, I see where you are coming from. I think I've been slightly blinded by my annoyance.
What I am trying to say is that discrimination against women exists in modern society. Men and Women do not receive equal pay, there is a link that I posted earlier showing the statistics. I believe this to be wrong as I believe in gender equality. This makes me a feminist because based on scholarly articles that I have read feminism is about gender equality. People may interpret this to be gender equality for women and therefore not relate this to equality with men. I guess, it depends on what you read and who it's written by. Some people take feminism to an extreme and this happens a lot in modern society leading to the 'modern feminist' which people identify as a man hater. The women in the film 'Made in Dagenham' campaigned for equal pay and were identified as feminists. It's based off of a true story. Is this clearer?

It's called 'feminism' because females experience the most discrimination. It's still about equality, if men were excluded from this then who would women aim to be equal to? I'm not going to quote statistics at you, you can look those up yourself.

Stating what you decided Feminism means doesn't make it true.

Feminism is defined as gender equality! Why would people want to associate themselves with something that is hateful? I wasn't trying to post any type of 'gospel'. I'm also not an AS student. Why would anyone try and post a gospel on TSR? People are allowed to have their opinions and I am allowed to disagree with them. The main reason for my frustration is the attacks on people (including myself) who identify themselves as feminists. I've not read about it for the first time and posted about it ignorantly either.

Honestly I think it is all over-dramatised in the West, where is all of this huge 'inequality' in pay for the same job between men and women in this country? Does Starbucks pay their employees the same regardless of gender, for the same job, yes! Your misguided paygap belief is due to the fact that a man and woman may have the same job, but if a man has more qualifications and more experience then why shouldn't he be paid more? If the woman is new to it and they're giving her a chance, why would she be on the same wage? Also the #heforshe just shows what the problems with feminism are - it's making men do more for woman, blaming men for liking certain body types. If a man only finds 5'10 blondes attractive then let him! It's his preference. Maybe if Emma Watson had called it he AND she, you know to show 'equality' I'd have more respect for it. At the end of the day, slut walking and other various 'campaigning' is laughing a stock and something needs to change.

But modern feminism doesn't support equality. As a movement it has become it's own enemy, undermining any attempts at cultural equality by both alienating one portion of the population based on a gender qualification and mocking another portion when they try to overcome that divide.

I know you probably read about feminism in your history books and have identified with it. That's swell. But you need to do a bit more unbiased research before you start making your opines on feminism which are clearly based on fiction.





Maybe that's something you should think about in a bit more depth...

The link you posted from The Independent did not demonstrate a meaningful wage gap. All it showed was that the hourly wage of men and women differs. It did not control for industry sector, the roles within those industries, level of education, years of experience or any other variable relevant to income.

On a related note (one raised by the article) the Asda case is laughable. How is loading shelves in an air-conditioned store equivalent to unloading shelves in a warehouse around (and sometimes operating) heavy machinery? The latter job is less pleasant, more dangerous and more skilled.

How many ****ing feminists threads are we gonna see.

Listen feminism is bull**** and many people on here agree. Leave it as that.

Okay, I see where you are coming from. I think I've been slightly blinded by my annoyance.
What I am trying to say is that discrimination against women exists in modern society. Men and Women do not receive equal pay, there is a link that I posted earlier showing the statistics. I believe this to be wrong as I believe in gender equality. This makes me a feminist because based on scholarly articles that I have read feminism is about gender equality. People may interpret this to be gender equality for women and therefore not relate this to equality with men. I guess, it depends on what you read and who it's written by. Some people take feminism to an extreme and this happens a lot in modern society leading to the 'modern feminist' which people identify as a man hater. The women in the film 'Made in Dagenham' campaigned for equal pay and were identified as feminists. It's based off of a true story. Is this clearer?

What I am trying to say is that discrimination against women exists in modern society

Men and Women do not receive equal pay

Loads clearer!



I would agree, but would point out that there is also discrimination against men. I would find it to be on a cultural level rather than a legal or economic level. Men are culturally expected to be bread winners, and women are culturally expected not to be. I believe that is wrong, and any movement which targets cultural divides is egalitarian in my eyes.

However... feminism as a movement often focuses on this old chestnut;





Actually, women who are employed for the same period of time as men in a similar role will earn more. General statistics include women who typically take a career gap around the age of 33-36 to have children. Would you say it's fair that women who take an employment break for 3-5 years should earn the same as men who worked continuously throughout that time? I would say that if they did, it would be massively discriminatory towards men. This is one area I'd identify that is directly anti egalitarianism, and in fact would directly lead to inequality between genders. Worse, telling girls that they 'Had' to be engineers and couldn't be what they wanted is repressive, pretty much the complete opposite of classical feminism.





This above is one of the key reasons I'm anti feminist. We currently have legal equality, and potential equality.


Sorry to rely on metaphors again, but I think they often help remove personal bias. If two users joined TSR at the same time, but one didn't post for 2 years whilst the other posted continuously, I would find it hard to give credit to the person who didn't post for years expecting to have the same number of rep gems 'Because otherwise that's unfair'. All we can do as a society is provide a platform with equal start to all parties regardless of race/gender/financial backgrounds. We don't have that for financial background and it's debatable if we have that for race. We do have it for gender.




TLDR: Women actually have an earning potential advantage, but make choices towards either a low salary or a family. It wouldn't be fair for them to expect that to be subsidized. As feminism advocates that, I maintain that feminism is actually counter gender equality.



Sources;

- 'Women earn 3.6% more than men'
- 'Young women out earn men as standard'
- Forbes on women out earning men
- The 77cence Myth

- Video;

Lately, I've seen a lot of threads bashing feminism and claiming that it doesn't belong in modern society and that feminists are 'stupid'. However, I feel that most people's idea of what feminism actually means is very skewed.
Firstly, feminism is NOT about hating on men. Feminism is against sexism and therefore 'man hating'' is the opposite of its focus. Women who do this are not feminists, they're extremists, even if they claim to be a feminist. Period.
Secondly, whilst feminists believe in equality of the sexes, there is also the understanding that men and women are biologically different. Yes, your average man is stronger than the average woman. This is an indisputable fact.
Feminism believes in equal opportunities, if a woman wants to go out and get a career and maybe do things that are considered 'manly', then she should be able to. Free from discrimination or gender stereotyping. The same goes for any man. Also, feminism is not exclusive to women. Sexism happens against men all the time and it's just as wrong as sexism against women.
Tbh, I thought most of these things were common sense, but clearly they aren't. I feel like this needed to be said as there are probably a lot of feminists on TSR who feel offended by current posters bashing them. Anyways, hopefully someone learns something from this post.

Oh my god we agree on something...

This does make a lot of sense. But what about the reasons for the choices that women make about their careers? Don't you think they are pressured into quitting their job or even giving up their careers to have or take care of children? I agree to, Men are discriminated against all the time. Neither type of discrimination is right.

This does make a lot of sense. But what about the reasons for the choices that women make about their careers? Don't you think they are pressured into quitting their job or even giving up their careers to have or take care of children? I agree to, Men are discriminated against all the time. Neither type of discrimination is right.

That is a fair point, however:
The ONS have conducted research into the causes of the gender pay gap. This found the key factors explaining the pay gap were as follows:


I just find it hard to ignore the facts, if it could still be affecting women, why ignore it?

no, and no. in a time and era when all females have to do is speak out and every news channel on the planet panders to their needs, i would say that, it is their choice.

what with, almost every building turning to help centres for women, and different organizations sprouting up everyday to take care of women (n.b. not men; there are more than 400,000+ centers for female victims of domestic abuse, whilst not even upto 5000 in america), i find it hard to believe that in the western world, anyone is pressured into doing anything. people have kids; because they want to. for example, look at cameron diaz; she chose not to have kids; she is where she is, because of her decisions in life.

besides, even if they do have kids; they still get maternity leave and have the comfort of coming back to the exact same job, after they've had the kids (fathers only get 2 weeks paternity leave.. nothing compared to the amount females get).
you can not and should not fault an organization for an individuals' life choices. after all, there are several other people willing to take up the job, should a post become vacant because the individual, of their own free will, chose to become a parent. what most feminists don't understand, is that you can't eat your cake, and have it.
And finally, neither type of discrimination is right; but you don't see men complaining about every little thing, every damn day; and it is wrong to try to play to the gallery by suggesting that feminism is about equality; when, it only takes care of females needs. it doesn't care about men, nor was it built to care about men. we, are not stupid for you to try and convince us otherwise.

above all; if you understand nothing from the above, understand this:
People are where they are, because of their choices in life.

You're right, the foundation of feminism is to stop female oppression. Maybe it's not as much of an issue today as females pay is more on par with males. However I still feel like there are a lot of gender stereotypes that need to be broken for men and women. Also, on a more global scale women are still extremely oppressed, therefore I feel that I could still identify myself as a feminist.
Thank you for your insight, I am open to changing my mind and you have given me some things to think about. Maybe my OP was slightly brash, but I won't be using this account again as to avoid further verbal attacks.
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I do think they are pressured into quitting their jobs to have kids. I would say that's a cultural issue, and wherever feminism as a modern movement tries to combat that, it becomes egalitarian. Unfortunately however the modern feminist wave (if you want to subscribe to #wave theory) focuses on false opportunity issues, and actively sidelines men on their role in ending cultural gender expectations.


In all honesty, I think that Feminism was an amazingly important thing, but has come to an end. If there was an 'Egalitarian' movement which was at it's core open to both genders for equal productive debate, it might be able to tackle cultural issues we have. Otherwise modern feminism has to be at odds with some of our core societal values, 'forcing' women into studying maths or forcing men into HR departments with legal incentives rather than having films/promotional culture which encourage men to take a family career break or women to be career focused.

it is not 'on par', females pay: are more than men (certain age brackets); and oddly enough, i actually have the stats to prove it.

what makes you think breaking those stereotypes will bring good? but to understand your post more clearly, what stereotypes are you referring to?

'on a global scale'.. yes. but before you do, get your ass, and every feminists ass out of the western civilization and society. i grow tired and weary of their ideologies in a place that doesn't need/require them. i say this, because, for the umpteenth time, female oppression does not exist. not in the western world.

regardless, you're welcome.