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Majority of Brits think Islam is incompatible with the UK

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Original post by Durance
Another sure way to radicalise them is to allow Sharia courts


Are you an expert on the subject? Or is that just sounding off based on what you read in the Sun or the Mail or think you know?

I doubt that Sharia courts radicalise Muslim people per se. They are mainly to do with divorce and matrimonial law, which is hardly the stuff of revolutionary fervour.
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Original post by Fullofsurprises
Are you an expert on the subject? Or is that just sounding off based on what you read in the Sun or the Mail or think you know?

I doubt that Sharia courts radicalise Muslim people per se. They are mainly to do with divorce and matrimonial law, which is hardly the stuff of revolutionary fervour.


I could ask you the same based on your accusation that rightwing groups cause the same thing.

Mine is based around giving them a connection to Islamic law rather than British, typical way of keeping themselves segregated rather than accustomising them to how Britain believes in divorce. The Islamic shariah view on divorce is questionable from what I've read about it.
Original post by Durance
I could ask you the same based on your accusation that rightwing groups cause the same thing.

Mine is based around giving them a connection to Islamic law rather than British, typical way of keeping themselves segregated rather than accustomising them to how Britain believes in divorce. The Islamic shariah view on divorce is questionable from what I've read about it.


They are religious courts. It's the same with Jewish courts, also religious schools, etc. Maybe extremism does develop in those institutions, but it's doubtful they cause it.

Personally I'm against all these religious institutions, I think they are maniupulation for ignorant and uneducated minds, but if you're going to allow religions to do their thing and not have the government interfere, then you're going to get this kind of thing.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Maybe extremism does develop in those institutions, but it's doubtful they cause it.

Sort of like cancer does develop at increased rates within the Chernobyl exclusion zone, but it's probably a biological feedback fault and not the prolonged exposure to high levels of radiation that "causes it".
Original post by mariachi
So, in a nutshell, while Islam as a personal religion is compatible with British society (provided it stays in the personal sphere - praying, fasting, abstaining from certain foods etc) any attempt to extend it to the social/political sphere seems highly problematic.


Thanks. I wanted to say that as well, but couldn't think of a way to put it into words.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
They are religious courts. It's the same with Jewish courts, also religious schools, etc. Maybe extremism does develop in those institutions, but it's doubtful they cause it.

Personally I'm against all these religious institutions, I think they are maniupulation for ignorant and uneducated minds, but if you're going to allow religions to do their thing and not have the government interfere, then you're going to get this kind of thing.
I am also against allowing parallel legal systems to develop - even if they do act on a voluntary basis.

Women, in particular, may feel lots of pressure to go to Shariah courts for divorce, or to have an Islamic judge decide on how to distribute an inheritance - not doing so would expose them to criticism from their family and the community: as a consequence, they will often have to accept a less favourable decision than the one they would obtain in "normal" courts. So, the State should at least exercise a close control on what is happening in those institutions

Also, what happens in religious schools- what programmes are followed and which values are being promoted - is not outside the sphere of public/State interest.

So, all in all, the emergence of faith-based institutions in society, vested with some parts of public authority, is not something which should be looked at without concern. At the very least, it favours people isolating themselves within closed communities -religious ghettos -, instead of entirely joining the general social structure.

Western Europe has - more or less - freed its societies of encroachments by religious authorities after centuries of struggles. It is not a good idea to start rolling back what was - in my opinion - an historic achievement.
(edited 9 years ago)
Islam is a threat to democracy, liberalism and freedom. It should be opposed.
And the same people here are the ones that strongly support "Freedom of Speech" and "Freedom of belief".

:rolleyes:

Dearie me, these threads are getting worse by the day.
Original post by PowelliteScum :)
Islam is a threat to democracy, liberalism and freedom. It should be opposed.



Protect freedom by banning freedom of belief.
:confused:
Original post by NaTaLiiA513
Protect freedom by banning freedom of belief.
:confused:


I never said ban. I said oppose. With vigour.
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Original post by NaTaLiiA513
And the same people here are the ones that strongly support "Freedom of Speech" and "Freedom of belief".

:rolleyes:

Dearie me, these threads are getting worse by the day.

we have freedom to debaten and believe Islam is incompatible with Britain, yes?
Original post by PowelliteScum :)
I never said ban. I said oppose. With vigour.



Oppose: to disagree with and attempt to prevent
It's not the disagree part I have a problem with, of course we are all entitled to our own opinions provided that it does not discriminate.
Now, when you oppose something then you are practicality trying to get rid of it. Especially vigorously.
Original post by NaTaLiiA513
Oppose: to disagree with and attempt to prevent
It's not the disagree part I have a problem with, of course we are all entitled to our own opinions provided that it does not discriminate.
Now, when you oppose something then you are practicality trying to get rid of it. Especially vigorously.


We should attempt to get rid of Islam, of course. But not by banning it. A better way would be to educate its followers, and degrade and expose it for the flawed theology it is.

This is what I mean by "oppose" it.
Original post by mariachi
x


Do realise that few Muslims in the UK would support Shariah in the UK... so your concern is unfounded. And the mere fact that Britain has been free from the shackles of foreign intervention has allowed it to develop. Britain itself has held back many countries in their development, explaining the lack of natural progress over time from primitivity.
Original post by Durance
we have freedom to debaten and believe Islam is incompatible with Britain, yes?



Correct you do have the "Freedom to debate".
I was referring to the individuals with extremist views and solutions.
e.g banning Islam.
Original post by PowelliteScum :)
We should attempt to get rid of Islam, of course. But not by banning it. A better way would be to educate its followers, and degrade and expose it for the flawed theology it is.

This is what I mean by "oppose" it.


It's not your place to "get rid of" Islam.
People can choose to believe it if they wish. They don't think it's flawed.
It's like saying that somebody wants to get rid of democracy because they think it's flawed and that they don't agree with it. It would cause an uproar.
Can you see where this is going...?
But isn't "trying to get rid of it" effectively banning it in a way?
:rolleyes:
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Original post by NaTaLiiA513
Correct you do have the "Freedom to debate".
I was referring to the individuals with extremist views and solutions.
e.g banning Islam.


I can't find anyone in this thread who said we should ban it
Original post by NaTaLiiA513
It's not your place to "get rid of" Islam.
People can choose to believe it if they wish. They don't think it's flawed.
It's like saying that somebody wants to get rid of democracy because they think it's flawed and that they don't agree with it. It would cause an uproar.
Can you see where this is going...?
But isn't "trying to get rid of it" effectively banning it in a way?
:rolleyes:


Why isn't it my place to "get rid of" Islam?

They can choose to be ignorant and bigoted if they so wish, but they should expect to be offended and insulted by those who believe that their choice of beliefs is utterly abhorrent. They should expect their opinions to be degraded, and factual evidence being brought against them.

Democracy isn't a perfect system? We should always critique things. It's how we improve as a species.

So no. I can't see where this is going.

Trying "to get rid of" it isn't the same as banning it. Nobody truly believes that the earth is flat anymore. But that viewpoint has not been banned. I wish to do the same with all religion, especially Islam.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Durance
I can't find anyone in this thread who said we should ban it


You need to look harder.
Look at the post before, someone think that we should get rid of it.

Original post by billyfisher100
I absolutely do not believe that most oppressive Islamic values and practices are compatible with western democracy.

We cannot ban Islam, but we should certainly ban the wearing of the Burkha and Niqab.


Although somebody said that they can't ban Islam, they think that they should ban the Burkha and Niqab. Freedom already taken away.
Reply 99
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Original post by NaTaLiiA513
You need to look harder.
Look at the post before, someone think that we should get rid of it.



Although somebody said that they can't ban Islam, they think that they should ban the Burkha and Niqab. Freedom already taken away.


Get rid of it isn't the same as banning it, unless they were referring to get rid of as in making it illegal, but that wasn't the impression i got from it.

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