Daughter of Somali immigrants accepted into all 8 Ivy League schools

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/minnesota-teen-munira-khalif-accepted-all-eight-ivy-league-schools-n338661

As a Somali immigrant myself I feel incredibly proud and inspired by this story, I love it when ethnic minorities are represented in such a fantastic way. This story would break regardless of whether the student was an immigrant or a national/native, it's a remarkable achievement and I'm very happy for her

What do you guys think?

blah blah blah, Indians/Chinese/Jews/etc all do fine in white society and even outperform whites, blacks are just a uniquely dysfunctional group. Everyone else manages ok.

Its also worth poinitng that there are no countries on earth where blacks do well. African countries are awful, blacks in Europe/America do badly, blacks in 100% non-racist countries like Brazil do badly, etc etc. There is a constant factor here, and it isnt 'white racism'.

You are mentally ill. I would recommend a psychiatrist.

The saddest thing is that your attitude is so common in the US black community and is partly responsible for their failures - a huge sense of victimhood and a genuine belief that their failings are entirely the fault of others.

The black community should take a serious look at groups like Jews/Indians/Irish - they have historically suffered just as much discrimination as blacks, but have responded to it by developing a culture which values success and striving, rather than victimhood and violence. As a result, they now do better than whites.

Again you fail to give any convincing reason why all these factors magically only seem to have a negative impact on black people, and why they do not prevent Indians/Chinese/Jews/etc from out-performing whites. I also think you have the direction of causality backwards - you assume that blacks do badly due to the negative stereotypes, while it seems equally likely that the negative stereotypes exist partly due to how black people behave. Again, other groups have also faced bad stereotypes yet managed to overcome them - Irish people have been viewed as inferior throughout most of history, Indians faced huge amounts of discrimination in the UK until fairly recently, the Jewish situation is complex but they have clearly faced severe discrimination throughout history, etc.

(your previous "Jews are white" comment is quite historically ignorant, Jews were not viewed as being white until very recently)

There are two much simpler explanations of why blacks fail at US universities:

1) Affirmative action and diversity policies result in blacks being admitted to colleges which are above their level of ability, and they cannot cope, since they are much worse than their white/asian classmates who had to pass a higher bar to be admitted. See: https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=mismatch+hypothesis+affirmative+action&spell=1

2) Because there is always a degree of measurement error on tests such as SATs (in that sometimes a person will do extremely well/badly on a particular paper due to 'luck') and since black students have much lower average SAT scores than white/asian students, a black student who receives a high score is more likely to have got it by luck than a white/asian student, and so is less likely to be able to maintain that level of performance in the future due to simple regression to the mean. See: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-985X.2012.01072.x/abstract


Stop using nebulous claims of nonexistent 'racism' to justify underachievement, it is ridiculous and there is absolutely zero evidence for it. There is no such thing as 'white privilege', and the 'white' environments of universities dont stop Asians doing extremely well (better than whites, on average)

You are mentally ill. I would recommend a psychiatrist.

The saddest thing is that your attitude is so common in the US black community and is partly responsible for their failures - a huge sense of victimhood and a genuine belief that their failings are entirely the fault of others.

The black community should take a serious look at groups like Jews/Indians/Irish - they have historically suffered just as much discrimination as blacks, but have responded to it by developing a culture which values success and striving, rather than victimhood and violence. As a result, they now do better than whites.

The average black African also outperforms the average white person in the UK and probably in America as well.

What failures? It is a socioeconomic phenomenon, whites and Indians that are in poverty stricken areas fail in education as well and I think we all know the class of most Jews anyway, they are rarely found in such places. There are plenty of successful black people in this country, but you are a fool if you believe that there aren't some barriers and social hurdles that have to be crossed first.

No, that is not true.

That is not true either. Blacks born into families earning $150k/year do not out perform whites born into families earning $20k/year. Controlling for income/socioeconomic status does not come even remotely close to eliminating the achievement gap, this is very well known.

L
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/mar/22/white-british-children-outperformed-by-minorities

Now if you could kindly show me the stats for your bold claim that black people born in families earning 150k/yr perform less than white people that are born into families earning 20k/yr?

The only African group mentioned in that group is Ghanaians, which is a very self-selected high achieving immigrant group. The average black in the UK does not outperform the average white. You cant just pick out the one country that has very favorable immigration patterns and ignore the groups that are disasters (eg somalians)

See graphic in my previous post.

The only African groups mentioned in that article are Ghanaians and Nigerians, both of which are well known to be highly self-selected (and high achieving) immigrant groups. The average black (or African) in the UK does not outperform the average white. You cant just pick out the two countries that have very favorable immigration patterns and ignore the groups that are disasters (eg somalians).

If all blacks in the UK/US were like the Ghanaian/Nigerian communities with a culture of high-achievement who had been selected through the immigration system to be intelligent and middle-class then there wouldnt be a problem, and we wouldnt be having this discussion. Sadly, this is not the case.

I didn't say the average black person, I said the average black African, I can tell I'm going to have to constantly repeat myself with you.

Kind of says a lot that black people that haven't been completely integrated with British society and culture are more likely to get better grades.

See edit, I missed the Nigerian part. Both Ghanians and Nigerians are known to be good immigrant groups. There are less than 20k Sierra Leoneans in the UK, its too small a group to count for anything.

When you said the 'average black African", I assumed you actually meant the average black African - who in case you havent realised, is living in Africa, not Britain.

The average African in Africa (including places like Ghana, Nigeria, etc) does much worse than the average white person in Britain. The average black/African living in Britain does worse than the average white person in Britain. However the Ghanian and Nigerian communities in the UK tend to do well, because these immigrant groups came from the upper strata of Ghana/Nigeria - they arent even remotely close to being a random sample from those countries.

No, its because Ghanians/Nigerians in the UK overwhelmingly came from (upper-)middle class backgrounds in Ghana/Nigeria. They are highly selected immigrant groups. This is common knowledge.

Also, first generation immigrants typically perform better than average (partly due to self-selection) but it is unclear how long these effects last. At least in the US, there is evidence that African immigrants regress to the low black average within a single generation: http://home.uchicago.edu/~arauh/Rauh2014a.pdf

Sigh. What is a 'good immigrant group'? What the hell is that? Now I'd give a long reply to this nonsense you've posted but you're just going to keep on making up excuses like 'african immigrants use self-selection' or 'Sierra leonians are such a small group, they shouldn't be counted' except that's exactly how statistics works isn't, by sampling?

And how would you know that the average African living in Africa isn't performing better than the average white British person? Where's your proof for that? That's right, you have none.

I'm not wasting further time here, I've given you proof and explained things to you, yet you come up with excuses and I have better things to do with my time, excuse me.

blah blah blah, Indians/Chinese/Jews/etc all do fine in white society and even outperform whites, blacks are just a uniquely dysfunctional group. Everyone else manages ok.

Its also worth poinitng that there are no countries on earth where blacks do well. African countries are awful, blacks in Europe/America do badly, blacks in 100% non-racist countries like Brazil do badly, etc etc. There is a constant factor here, and it isnt 'white racism'.

Affirmative Action much?

You are insufferable - I have provided numerous links to academic papers to support the various claims I’ve made in this thread, while you have contributed nothing except a pissy attitude and a completely unjustified sense of self-righteousness.

Here are some stiatistics for US immigrants, UK patterns are broadly similar: http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/1999/06/carringt.htm . 75% of immigrants from Ghana had a degree when they arrived (Table 1). This is not a random sample of Ghanians (how many people in Ghana do you think have a degree?). The brightest people in Ghana/Nigeria typically migrate to the UK/US - these immigrant groups are not reflective of the average Africa, they are broadly made up of the smartest people from those countries. If they didnt do slightly better than the average UK person then there would be something seriously wrong.

This stuff is really well-known - African brain drain is now considered a genuine problem since the first thing that many of the smartest Africans do when they get degrees is leave for Europe/America, which means the countries lose skilled workers almost as fast as they produce them. if you weren’t aware of this then you should really drop the smug attitude since you are pretty ignorant and could stand to learn some basic facts.

edit: you should also be aware that while the Ghanian/Nigerian UK/US communities tend to be highly educated since they had to satisfy fairly strict criteria to be allowed to immigrate into the UK/US, there are also communities such as Somalians who tended to get to the UK through asylum seeking and hence tend to do far, far less well since they are not a highly selected population - high crime rates, low educational achievement, low income, etc.

1) First of all, Black Africans are among the most credentialed in the UK (university-level):
http://www.ethnicity.ac.uk/medialibr...n-changing.pdf

2) Black Africans are almost exactly represented at Russell Group universities according to their proportion of the British population
https://62e528761d0685343e1c-f3d1b99...1396964830.jpg

3) For young elite* British people:
It should be noted that "Once educational characteristics are taken into account, most ethnic minority groups have a higher likelihood of being unemployed than their White peers."

but looking at raw data:

"Some groups, such as Indians and Black Africans, manage to have higher earnings than their White peers"

and

"The results from these models show that employed graduates in the Indian and Black African groups do better than their White peers. However, female Bangladeshi graduates have lower earnings than their White peers. In most instances, male graduates’ earnings compared to their White peers were higher than females’, especially for Indian graduates."
http://www.runnymedetrust.org/upload...IsntEnough.pdf
* elite - those educated at Russell Group unis

and 4) Black African children perform on par with white British children at the GCSEs
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...Text_FINAL.pdf [page 10]

The data suggest a factor of ethnicity/culture, not race or skin colour, is playing a part in differential outcomes among British youths. This can be reasonably inferred, as Black Caribbean children do not show similar performance for items 1 to 4. We could lazily blame culture, or we could consider that time-of-arrival in the UK/social class in native country may play a role in employment/educational outcomes in British immigrant communities, but that would require much more advanced statistical data analysis, and less alarmist newspaper headlines - and who wants that?

Sincerely,
coutingdown,
STEM Ph.D.