Sex, Virginity and Men

If they aren't virgins doesn't mean they can't prefer virgins. Same thing for girls who are not very tall but want tall men.

That's two different measures. One can't normally control how tall they are. One can choose to be a virgin or not though.

I don't know what other people think, but personally I think the favour towards virgins make girls see themselves as something to be 'preserved' until they 'give themselves over' to their future husband. The favour towards virgins would be a prejudice towards whomever 'fails to do so'. Men, at the same time, don't get discriminated against just because they had sex with someone anyway.

Isn't that somehow similar to keeping girls inside, make them dress in certain clothes and cut their connection with men like in somewhere else in the world?

Yeah pretty much this. Just because most women have loose morals does not mean that men have to desire them, or that men are bad for having preferences and desires. Better to use a surrogate or live the single life than be with an unsuitable woman, most of the time.

Why do you think it's completely about a sense of honour though . I dont dismiss their worth as a human at all, they could do great things with their life. I just dismiss them as a suitable partner who I'd be happy with.

In western culture men more often get judged by women the opposite way. Go ahead go on OK Cupid and make a dating profile as a 30 year old virgin male for an experiment and see what women think of you.

In western culture men more often get judged by women the opposite way. Go ahead go on OK Cupid and make a dating profile as a 30 year old virgin male for an experiment and see what women think of you.

I think that is a bit more rational as it does make people think "nobody else has slept with him so there must be something wrong with him", but obviously the fact that is applied more to men than women is wrong.

Honestly it was a guess, as I can't bend my mind to such a meaningless whim. Let's dispense with the idea of honour then and you can enlighten me; what is the virtue of a virgin partner? What makes them so superior or more "suitable"? If it isn't honour then tell me what that magical hymen is doing to heighten a relationship. I find a person's mind, humour, interests, values, beliefs, aspirations (and the thousands of other interesting qualities) infinitely higher in priority than the idea that they may have had fun once without me.

As an extension; do you think then that virgins are capable of more meaningful relationships?

It isn't wrong. Men and women are different. Different standards should apply to us. Equalism is predicated on sameness and is hence factually unsustainable.

Personally, I wouldn't judge a man for being a virgin. I'd, if anything, respect him for not giving in to his baser instincts. I wish I was still a virgin. I hate that I've been with as many girls as I have. I just wasn't young or mature enough to realise it when I was acting like I did.

The kind of people who shame men for being virgins are usually loose women, or foolish men, who value a man according to how many other women he has succeeded in pleasing. Which is fundamentally degrading and misandrist, when you think about it. Scoring women is not an achievement. It's just pathetic. Alpha men find one top girl and stick with her and create a family with her, instead of faffing around with dozens. Being a player isn't Alpha. It's the opposite of Alpha.

Virgin shaming is as bad as slut shaming, it's odd you see what's wrong with one, yet promote the other. Male virgin shaming is clearly the equivalent of female slut shaming.

There are so many reasons it would probably take an essay to write them all and explain them all properly. I'll do a short list off the top of my head

I want my partners sexuality to be shaped with me, not with other men e.g. if an experienced woman is saying "oh do this I like when my ex did this".. "say this to me" etc.. I feel like I am not just having sex with her.. I am also having sex with all of the men of her past, in a way, because they are part of her sexuality now. And I dont want to have sex with these men, but a partner who develops their sexuality with me instead.

I want my partner to have her best experiences with me: Women lie. when she says "youre the best ive ever had blah blah" sorry but she is lying to you, the first orgasms are the most intense and women get desensitised physically from sex, I know this as a fact from honest women saying this, and if you dont know this it just means your gf is good at making you feel secure and saying what is needed when it is. So.. I dont want my partner to have her most intense experiences with another guy.. if she's the love of my life I want them with her, why does another guy get this?! As well as most intense experiences I want her to have her most emotional experiences, most vulnerable experiences etc, with me. If I am the love of her life, I will be the one to be there and have these experiences with her. These memories wont be of another guy, but with me. It will make me feel much happier and more of a bond with her for sure, and like I have not missed out on these things to another guy. People remember their first kiss, first time having sex etc, more than anything as well, you think your partner who has 10 exes remembers her first time with you more than with her first ever partner? no. When people ask her about her first time what's she thinking of? Some other guy. When my partner hears the word "sex" I want her to think of me not flashing images of all her exes, or "virginity" I want her to think of me and feel love and warmth that we went through this together. I want someone to be truly mine, I'll be hers, and we'll spend our lives together, including the sexual parts of it. You just have to look on threads here about if you can ever truly get over your first love to see that most people never do as well, they always have that attachment. I want my partner to have this with me not someone else.

I want my partner to make me feel secure, and like I am special, I want to feel like she didnt want sex with another person but then she met me, fell in love with me, then wanted me, it makes me feel more special. If she has said "I love you" to 10 other men and slept with 10 other men.. it does mean less, it is less special, it's more fickle. I'd also be worried that if my partner can have sex and say I love you to someone, then break up with them, what is to stop it happening with me.. where is the meaning, the devotion. It is more fickle. If a greater emphasis is placed on love, sex and commitment, I will feel happier, more special and more secure. It would make me love my partner more and feel a stronger bond. If my partner did wait for me as well.. wow.. out of 7 billion people my partner wanted no one else and waited for me.. how lucky I am that she did this. i would love her so much for that gesture of love, monogamy, commitment to me.

I guess I also want someone who I feel I know completely, I want to grow and develop with someone as much as I can, and the more we do and experience together the better. I would prefer to experience all of sex, love and relationships with my partner than her thoughts, sexuality, memories etc of love and sex be a mishmash of other people including me.

I also have spoken a lot in a previous topic about how I find western relationships (which are not actually monogamy but polyamory imo where you sleep with all of your partners one after the other rather than all at the same time) to not make sense to me. I only really relate to either complete monogamy (placing a value on sex with your 1 true love, being more concerned with marriage than dating etc) or with complete polyamory. I think it's nonsensical in western relationships that people claim their partner having sex with other people is meaningless/fine, yet at the same time it's completely unacceptable for their partner to have sex with other people whilst they're in a relationship with you.

I know there are so many more reasons I have but I cant think well right now I'm a bit tired and stuff yeah. Maybe I will put more later.

As someone who has never had sex, you are making a lot of claims which you have no basis of experience for. I was going to go through each of your points, but I find my effort flags because we will never see eye to eye.

Without wanting to be mean, to me you come across as immature. You want to "feel special" want someone devoted to you, who's identity revolves solely around you, which makes me think you lack self esteem and need a partner who will be your new mother. I think you should try to learn to accept people as the whole human being that they are, shaped by their own experiences, and not expect a drone who will exist only to be for you.

I think that you are worried about your virgin status more than you actually should be, I think you are scared to enter the bedroom with someone of more experience because you fear embarrassment, but you can't deal with this so you are creating an ethos that you can follow in order to escape from your fear. I could be wrong there, but that's what my guess would be.

You're your own person pal and I expect we will never be able to agree within this thread, but my friendly advice would be to worry less and be more confident, cause the right person won't care about your past and by the same token, you should try to grow more accepting of people, because no one in this life is superior.

It isn't Mankytoes. Men should be slut shamed as much as women. In past times they were. It was a great sin for a man to cheat and promiscuous men were hounded out of villages and towns or shunned. When I think of a guy who's slept with a lot of girls, I think "I do not respect him." The people who slut worship men are women, usually those who sleep with a lot of guys, and other loose men.

Again, that's a matter of opinion. I am judging them for their behaviour. Who they hurt is not the issue, but they hurt themselves.

I find it a bit hypocritical people who are not willing to allow their partner to sleep with other people whilst they are in a relationship with them claim that people who dont want their partners to have had other partners beforehand lack self esteem or are insecure.

Cheating is wrong because you're abusing someone's trust, I'm not talking about cheating, I'm talking about single people having casual sex. I think your history is a bit out- pretty much all traditional societies are much harsher on women sleeping around than men. Kings and aristocrats shagging around and having bastards has usually been seen as between "wrong, but that's what men are like" and basically accepted. Their wives doing so has never been seen as anything but an extremely serious offense.

Well that isn't really your buisness, and in any case, they don't, many people have casual sex, enjoy it, then settle down with a partner, and enjoy that too. Obviously you can be hurt having casual sex, but you can be hurt being a virgin too.

You called me a browbeating liberal, yet I'm the one saying I accept anyone's choices, as long as they are honest and consensual, you're the one having a go at people for making different choices, so really you're the browbeating conservative.

I'd have a lot more respect for a women who'd had loads of sexual partners because that was her choice, than one who had none because she felt pressured by slut shamers and guys telling her she won't be relationship material if she has sex.

Ive put a bit more. Also you are wrong I have had sex. It is good that you havent tried to dissect what I've written because yeah I am sure we would disagree.

I dont want a partner to be my mother at all, I find it a bit hypocritical people who are not willing to allow their partner to sleep with other people whilst they are in a relationship with them claim that people who dont want their partners to have had other partners beforehand lack self esteem or are insecure.

I am not worried about a virgin status because I'm not a virgin. My relationship history is actually that I waited for what I wanted, found someone, thought she was perfect, she lied to me a lot, we broke up finally after about 2 years. I've had sex with 1 person and a relationship with them. Actually after this I would prefer a virgin much much more than I would have before it. I am not scared of sex or fearing embarrassment. Mostly I am depressed that my partner lied to me and I ended up in the situation I am in. I would fully agree that lacking emotions and being polyamorous would be the best way to be to avoid heartbreak or getting yourself in bad relationship situations.

Despite me having lost my virginity already, and yes now I can never have what I really wanted which was to experience everything together with my perfect partner. I would still prefer a partner who is a virgin for myself. I know this is selfish because I am not now and I wouldnt blame any woman who is waiting to turn me down and wait for a virgin guy.. really I think she should. But yes if I was creating my ideal woman right now yeah I'd make her a virgin for sure, I wouldnt create her then have 10 men sleep with her, be in loving relationships with her, then be with her myself after that. Actually I think that's a bit crazy to imagine someone doing that.

I am accepting of people's sex lives, I dont judge anyone outside of the confines of whether they will make an acceptable romantic partner for me.

Sluttiness is part of what kind of girl she is. If she has poor self control, what's to stop her cheating on you when married?

So let me get this straight: you waited as a virgin, for a virgin. This didn't work out (even though by your own admission virgin/virgin is supposedly better). You are now a non virgin but still looking for a virgin because experience has taught you nothing on the error of your ways and even though you've blathered on about how you want a virgin because they aren't desensitized, you're perfectly happy for a virgin girl to have to be with you even though you yourself are now desensitized. Why does she deserve to have to be with you when within your own system you are now not as good relationship material. Sure you say she should pass over you, but you're still going to try aren't you? That is what is hypocritical. Monogamy is not. It is the mutual, voluntary choice by both parties to be together with the exclusion of others because they have significant meaning to one another, regardless of whether either has loved in the past, because they are mature enough to see past that.

You say that "I would fully agree that lacking emotions and being polyamorous would be the best way to be to avoid heartbreak or getting yourself in bad relationship situations." yet claim you aren't afraid? You're so **** scared of being heart broken or a girl thinking another man is better that you think the best path is just to avoid emotion and meaningful relationships.

You're a moron.

This presupposes she has a reason to need to control herself.

I think that's a fairly Victorian view of women.

You were browbeating before by implying that someone with a traditional view hated women. I am suggesting that those with liberal views are acting to the detriment of themselves and society.

As for what double standard there exists, ever heard of Catherine the Great? The elite had freedom to do whatever they wanted, men or women.