Mansion tax fair but bedroom tax not?
Explain please.
I don't get it. Getting punished for having a decent house.
On the other hand its perfectly okay to live in a council house with more bedrooms than you require.
Doesn't make sense to me.
Also just because your house is worth £1.5m does not mean you are mega rich. £1.5m is actually only enough for a modest house in a lot of nice areas. (Not that being mega rich should excuse such theivery).
I don't get it. Getting punished for having a decent house.
On the other hand its perfectly okay to live in a council house with more bedrooms than you require.
Doesn't make sense to me.
Also just because your house is worth £1.5m does not mean you are mega rich. £1.5m is actually only enough for a modest house in a lot of nice areas. (Not that being mega rich should excuse such theivery).
Scroll to see replies
Original post by RtGOAT
Explain please.
I don't get it. Getting punished for having a decent house.
On the other hand its perfectly okay to live in a council house with more bedrooms than you require.
Doesn't make sense to me.
Also just because your house is worth £1.5m does not mean you are mega rich. £1.5m is actually only enough for a modest house in a lot of nice areas. (Not that being mega rich should excuse such theivery).
I don't get it. Getting punished for having a decent house.
On the other hand its perfectly okay to live in a council house with more bedrooms than you require.
Doesn't make sense to me.
Also just because your house is worth £1.5m does not mean you are mega rich. £1.5m is actually only enough for a modest house in a lot of nice areas. (Not that being mega rich should excuse such theivery).
Firstly, the very fact that living in a £2m home (not £1.5m, btw) implies a certain income level that means you can better afford to pay a little more tax, which goes to central government.
Bedroom tax, on the other hand, goes to the landlord, as it technically isn't a tax, but a benefit reduction. It hits those who can least afford it the hardest. A popular Conservative argument for the bedroom tax, as you've stated, is 'well you have more bedrooms than you need'. However, it's not as simple as that - There is a drastic under supply of 1 bedroom apartments/flats/houses, and those who are single and have to claim housing benefit have literally nowhere to live without having to pay this bedroom tax. In my job I deal with both housing benefit claimants and their landlords and housing associations. A housing association officer was telling me that in their district, they own around 20,000 properties, and out of these, 30 are 1-bedroom. 30.
What do you propose the 2,000-odd single claimants do to avoid the bedroom tax?
Original post by askew116
Firstly, the very fact that living in a £2m home (not £1.5m, btw) implies a certain income level that means you can better afford to pay a little more tax, which goes to central government.
Bedroom tax, on the other hand, goes to the landlord, as it technically isn't a tax, but a benefit reduction. It hits those who can least afford it the hardest. A popular Conservative argument for the bedroom tax, as you've stated, is 'well you have more bedrooms than you need'. However, it's not as simple as that - There is a drastic under supply of 1 bedroom apartments/flats/houses, and those who are single and have to claim housing benefit have literally nowhere to live without having to pay this bedroom tax. In my job I deal with both housing benefit claimants and their landlords and housing associations. A housing association officer was telling me that in their district, they own around 20,000 properties, and out of these, 30 are 1-bedroom. 30.
What do you propose the 2,000-odd single claimants do to avoid the bedroom tax?
Bedroom tax, on the other hand, goes to the landlord, as it technically isn't a tax, but a benefit reduction. It hits those who can least afford it the hardest. A popular Conservative argument for the bedroom tax, as you've stated, is 'well you have more bedrooms than you need'. However, it's not as simple as that - There is a drastic under supply of 1 bedroom apartments/flats/houses, and those who are single and have to claim housing benefit have literally nowhere to live without having to pay this bedroom tax. In my job I deal with both housing benefit claimants and their landlords and housing associations. A housing association officer was telling me that in their district, they own around 20,000 properties, and out of these, 30 are 1-bedroom. 30.
What do you propose the 2,000-odd single claimants do to avoid the bedroom tax?
Get housemates, it's what I do at Uni
Original post by askew116
Firstly, the very fact that living in a £2m home (not £1.5m, btw) implies a certain income level that means you can better afford to pay a little more tax, which goes to central government.
There is a drastic under supply of 1 bedroom apartments/flats/houses, and those who are single and have to claim housing benefit have literally nowhere to live without having to pay this bedroom tax.
What do you propose the 2,000-odd single claimants do to avoid the bedroom tax?
There is a drastic under supply of 1 bedroom apartments/flats/houses, and those who are single and have to claim housing benefit have literally nowhere to live without having to pay this bedroom tax.
What do you propose the 2,000-odd single claimants do to avoid the bedroom tax?
Just because you can afford to pay more doesn't mean you should have to. Besides its very conceivable to live in a £2m house and not have much disposible income. What if you inherited it for instance?
Get a roommate, cheaper rent all round. EDIT: ^Gandalf
Original post by askew116
Firstly, the very fact that living in a £2m home (not £1.5m, btw) implies a certain income level that means you can better afford to pay a little more tax, which goes to central government.
You ignore the fact that many of the people who are living in £2m homes, purchased them when they were much cheaper than they are now.
Why should they be punished for having a house that has rapidly increased in price?
the bedroom tax isn't even a tax - it's a deduction from benefits, if a person has too many rooms in their house and they're not doing anything about it
Original post by alexh42
Get housemates, it's what I do at Uni
Fair point. It would be fairer than the bedroom tax as it is now.
Original post by RtGOAT
Just because you can afford to pay more doesn't mean you should have to. Besides its very conceivable to live in a £2m house and not have much disposible income. What if you inherited it for instance?
Get a roommate, cheaper rent all round. EDIT: ^Gandalf
Get a roommate, cheaper rent all round. EDIT: ^Gandalf
Yes you should have to if you have the means. Do you think the poor like being poor? As a citizen, you have rights but also have responsibilities to contribute to the society in which you're living. If you have more wealth then you should pay more in tax. Simple. And if you inherited the house, then presumably you have your own main home. You can sell either the inherited house or your existing house. And yes, some kind of system where single claimants are placed with other single claimants is fair enough, that would be a fairer system than the existing bedroom tax.
Original post by EatAndRevise
You ignore the fact that many of the people who are living in £2m homes, purchased them when they were much cheaper than they are now.
Why should they be punished for having a house that has rapidly increased in price?
Why should they be punished for having a house that has rapidly increased in price?
Fair enough, but at least they have the option of downsizing.
Original post by zippity.doodah
the bedroom tax isn't even a tax - it's a deduction from benefits, if a person has too many rooms in their house and they're not doing anything about it
Did you even read my post?
Original post by askew116
Fair enough, but at least they have the option of downsizing.
Forcing them to downsize is no worse than forcing someone to move into a smaller home as a result of the bedroom tax.
Original post by EatAndRevise
Forcing them to downsize is no worse than forcing someone to move into a smaller home as a result of the bedroom tax.
My point is that many claimants do not have the option of moving to a smaller home because smaller homes are not available.
And I said it's an option - move to a lower value house or pay the mansion tax.
Original post by askew116
Yes you should have to if you have the means. Do you think the poor like being poor? As a citizen, you have rights but also have responsibilities to contribute to the society in which you're living. If you have more wealth then you should pay more in tax. Simple. And if you inherited the house, then presumably you have your own main home. You can sell either the inherited house or your existing house. And yes, some kind of system where single claimants are placed with other single claimants is fair enough, that would be a fairer system than the existing bedroom tax.
Yes you should have to if you have the means. Do you think the poor like being poor? As a citizen, you have rights but also have responsibilities to contribute to the society in which you're living. If you have more wealth then you should pay more in tax. Simple. And if you inherited the house, then presumably you have your own main home. You can sell either the inherited house or your existing house. And yes, some kind of system where single claimants are placed with other single claimants is fair enough, that would be a fairer system than the existing bedroom tax.
Boohoo someone has a nicer house than me.
Grow up Harriet.
Why does someone have a duty to provide for people they don't even know?
Original post by RtGOAT
Boohoo someone has a nicer house than me.
Grow up Harriet.
Why does someone have a duty to provide for people they don't even know?
Grow up Harriet.
Why does someone have a duty to provide for people they don't even know?
Why is it that many right wing supporters resort to rudeness when they run out of arguments?
I believe that we have a duty to care and provide for people to a certain basic level of dignity, and make no apology for that. If you believe that it's every person for themselves and sod the rest then fine, that's your right, but no excuse for attitude like that.
Original post by askew116
My point is that many claimants do not have the option of moving to a smaller home because smaller homes are not available.
And I said it's an option - move to a lower value house or pay the mansion tax.
And I said it's an option - move to a lower value house or pay the mansion tax.
Do you not see the hypocrisy?
Many of these people won't be able to pay the proposed tax, and then they will be forced to downsize. Then they will have to pay 12% stamp duty, which, for many of them, is too much.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by zippity.doodah
the bedroom tax isn't even a tax - it's a deduction from benefits, if a person has too many rooms in their house and they're not doing anything about it
Yeah like that woman who's disabled daughter died and she then got benefits taken away.
Or the woman who had been raped and harassed by her ex partner, found a safe house and then got charged the bedroom tax on that.
Yeah, great idea. Punishing the disabled and rape victims. No surprise to see the tories supporting it.
Mind you, nothing surprises me about the tories anymore.
The problem with this bedroom tax policy is like most Tory policies it is indiscriminate, I've heard of people who needed the spare room because of disability being hit by it.
Like most Tory ideas such as the food banks that have coincidentally increased with the tighter benefit sanctions, it just hasn't been thought through in detail, the Tories aren't cruel per se they are they are just so well off they can't remotely understand or comprehend what it is to be dirt poor.
For example the fact food banks might work in towns and cities where transport links are good but in the countryside people needing food banks are often left with the choice of putting there last 4 pounds in the meter or using it to catch a bus to the food bank. In this day and age in a country like Britain to force the poorest of us to choose between food or electricity [heat, light, hot water etc.] because of ham fisted policy making is atrocious.
Like most Tory ideas such as the food banks that have coincidentally increased with the tighter benefit sanctions, it just hasn't been thought through in detail, the Tories aren't cruel per se they are they are just so well off they can't remotely understand or comprehend what it is to be dirt poor.
For example the fact food banks might work in towns and cities where transport links are good but in the countryside people needing food banks are often left with the choice of putting there last 4 pounds in the meter or using it to catch a bus to the food bank. In this day and age in a country like Britain to force the poorest of us to choose between food or electricity [heat, light, hot water etc.] because of ham fisted policy making is atrocious.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by EatAndRevise
Do you not see the hypocrisy?
Many of these people won't be able to pay the proposed tax, and then they will be forced to downsize. Then they will have to pay 12% stamp duty, which, for many of them, is too much.
Many of these people won't be able to pay the proposed tax, and then they will be forced to downsize. Then they will have to pay 12% stamp duty, which, for many of them, is too much.
True, but they'd still be in a better position than those who find themselves in rent arrears due to being unable to afford the shortfall from the bedroom tax, and are then evicted.
The perfect tax system doesn't exist, and people will always be unhappy with elements of it, but as the Conservatives are so fond of saying 'tough choices have to be made'.
I can't see how someone can be in favour of the bedroom tax but against the mansion tax except for purely selfish reasons.
Stamp duty's not really all that relevant an argument. It would be possible to let the property at a sufficient rate to cover the mansion tax (plus any income tax) and afford a suitable second property.
Original post by askew116
Firstly, the very fact that living in a £2m home (not £1.5m, btw) implies a certain income level that means you can better afford to pay a little more tax, which goes to central government.
Do you smoke? do you have the Internet connection? if yes- than that implies a certain income level that means you can better afford to pay a little more tax.
Original post by askew116
What do you propose the 2,000-odd single claimants do to avoid the bedroom tax?
I would suggest to get a lodger.
If I cannot afford to buy a house, or rent a flat I rent a room. Why should I pay for those who "have to" have a 2-3 bedroom flat for themselves only?
Original post by askew116
If you have more wealth then you should pay more in tax. Simple.
That's probably the most stupid thing I have read today (but it's still quite early).
No, because you are more successful than others doesn't mean you have to be punished because of that. In my opinion- the only fair tax system is a flat tax rate on income, where you pay equal share of your income as anybody else.
Original post by askew116
I believe that we have a duty to care and provide for people to a certain basic level of dignity, and make no apology for that. If you believe that it's every person for themselves and sod the rest then fine, that's your right, but no excuse for attitude like that.
I believe that we have a duty to care and provide for people to a certain basic level of dignity, and make no apology for that. If you believe that it's every person for themselves and sod the rest then fine, that's your right, but no excuse for attitude like that.
Than pay for them with your money, don't try to rob the people who earn more.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by simon_g
Do you smoke? do you have the Internet connection? if yes- than that implies a certain income level that means you can better afford to pay a little more tax.
Your point being? I have no problem paying tax.
I would suggest to get a lodger.
If I cannot afford to buy a house, or rent a flat I rent a room. Why should I pay for those who "have to" have a 2-3 bedroom flat for themselves only?
I suggest you read my posts where I said that single claimants being placed in houses together would be a good idea. And yes, many people do "have to" lived in a 2-3 bedroom house as they are by far the most common type of house built.
That's probably the most stupid thing I have read today (but it's still quite early).
No, because you are more successful than others doesn't mean you have to be punished because of that. In my opinion- the only fair tax system is a flat tax rate on income, where you pay equal share of your income as anybody else.
Again, as per my previous post, you have the right to have your opinion, but calling others' opinions stupid is far from constructive.
Than pay for them with your money, don't try to rob the people who earn more.
Such a petty closing statement that I genuinely can't even respond to it.
Your point being? I have no problem paying tax.
I would suggest to get a lodger.
If I cannot afford to buy a house, or rent a flat I rent a room. Why should I pay for those who "have to" have a 2-3 bedroom flat for themselves only?
I suggest you read my posts where I said that single claimants being placed in houses together would be a good idea. And yes, many people do "have to" lived in a 2-3 bedroom house as they are by far the most common type of house built.
That's probably the most stupid thing I have read today (but it's still quite early).
No, because you are more successful than others doesn't mean you have to be punished because of that. In my opinion- the only fair tax system is a flat tax rate on income, where you pay equal share of your income as anybody else.
Again, as per my previous post, you have the right to have your opinion, but calling others' opinions stupid is far from constructive.
Than pay for them with your money, don't try to rob the people who earn more.
Such a petty closing statement that I genuinely can't even respond to it.
..
Original post by zippity.doodah
the bedroom tax isn't even a tax - it's a deduction from benefits, if a person has too many rooms in their house and they're not doing anything about it
It's a tax.
Original post by alexh42
Get housemates, it's what I do at Uni
So because you "do it at uni", you'd be happy to have housemates for the rest of your life? Even 40?
Well that's pathetic.
Quick Reply
Related discussions
- I have a student accommodation available for rent in Nottingham.
- Is 23000/year take home salary good?
- 2020 - 5 wasted years, what could have been?
- Guardian - UK middle classes ‘struggling despite incomes of up to £60,000 a year’
- Erasmus/exchange/first term leamington spa en-suite accommodation 2023/24, 3 bed
- I’m Renting A Room But Being Charged Full Council Tax
- Teaching career
- Student Finance Form for Parents doesn't make sense for pensions
- HMRC going to hunt down tax evasions for side hustlers
- Tenancy Takeover - Leeds
- Whats the rules on importing stuff from the EU now and China or America?
- Will we lose our council flat if I move into uni accommodation?
- Haven’t got paid
- Student Council Tax
- Labour plans to add 20% VAT to Private School fees.
- Where can I find cash-in-hand jobs?
- Is it worth only playing the lottery
- UK Medical School Debt is about £184.5k over 30 years
- University of Edinburgh 2024 Chinese (MA) offers?
- Wrongly taxed
Latest
Trending
Last reply 19 hours ago
Even Europe’s far-right firebrands seem to sense Brexit is a disaster- The GuardianLast reply 1 day ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 4 days ago
Sunak rejects offer of youth mobility scheme between EU and UKLast reply 1 week ago
Rayner denies wrongdoing over council house sale amid police reviewLast reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Big Discussion #1: What should be top priority to protect the environment?Last reply 2 weeks ago
Where do you stand on the political spectrum (8values)? – Take a quiz here!Last reply 3 weeks ago
2024 UK general election speculation and build-up threadLast reply 3 weeks ago
No progress made on half of UK government’s levelling-up targetsLast reply 3 weeks ago
Trump needs a $464m bond in six days. What if he can't get it?Trending
Last reply 19 hours ago
Even Europe’s far-right firebrands seem to sense Brexit is a disaster- The GuardianLast reply 1 day ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 4 days ago
Sunak rejects offer of youth mobility scheme between EU and UKLast reply 1 week ago
Rayner denies wrongdoing over council house sale amid police reviewLast reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Big Discussion #1: What should be top priority to protect the environment?Last reply 2 weeks ago
Where do you stand on the political spectrum (8values)? – Take a quiz here!Last reply 3 weeks ago
2024 UK general election speculation and build-up threadLast reply 3 weeks ago
No progress made on half of UK government’s levelling-up targetsLast reply 3 weeks ago
Trump needs a $464m bond in six days. What if he can't get it?
