BPP vs. CoL vs. UWE

My first choice for the CPE at the moment is UWE, for a variety of reasons, including that I'm currently at Bristol Uni and would have accommodation sorted out etc. It also looks like it has good facilities, and it wouldn't be too expensive. However, I'm worried about the reputation of the school. Is it up there with BPP and CoL, or is it still stigmatised by being an ex-poly etc.? I know it would mean ruling out a few of the magic circle firms that specify which law school you use, but I'm ok with that. Also, do most people do their LPC at the same institution as their CPE?

Reply 1

rah2

6

It doesn't mean ruling out the MC. If you apply to them and they give a TC you only have to do the LPC at their specified institution. They honestly wont care where you've done the GDL.

Reply 2

Lewisy-boy

11

If you've already done the LPC then apply for the TC they aren't going to make you go back and do it somewhere else... and they aren't going to discriminate anyway. The short answer, unless you already have a TC which stipulates otherwise, is to go where you genuinely want to. As for the CPE, it's basically identical everywhere anyway the only difference is teaching methods. See which you prefer and go there.

Is UWE an ex-poly? I swear I wrote that on these boards some time ago and got lambasted as I turned out to be wrong!

Reply 3

dragon_1706

Stikks

My first choice for the CPE at the moment is UWE, for a variety of reasons, including that I'm currently at Bristol Uni and would have accommodation sorted out etc. It also looks like it has good facilities, and it wouldn't be too expensive. However, I'm worried about the reputation of the school. Is it up there with BPP and CoL, or is it still stigmatised by being an ex-poly etc.? I know it would mean ruling out a few of the magic circle firms that specify which law school you use, but I'm ok with that. Also, do most people do their LPC at the same institution as their CPE?

Go to UWE if that's your first choice. You don't need to worry about reputation for the CPE, but in any case, UWE is supposed to be good for both the CPE and LPC anyway.

Reply 4

Reema

14

The only reason I think that there is such an emphasis on BPP and CoL as prestigious schools is that they are located fairly centrally in London, and therefore if you get a TC at a London law firm (which is where a large proportion of lawyers seem to end up) - they like the fact that you're relatively close to the firm and hence can keep that communicative link. And there's the point that doing the LPC at a preferred institution will ensure that you focus on relevant areas of law (i.e corporate, commercial etc) as opposed to parts of the law you'll probably never practice were you to go MC.

So what I'm trying to say is that if you look at the ratings, there are law schools that are rated 'excellent' by the Law Society e.g Nottingham (?), that aren't anywhere near London, and I think both BPP and CoL are rated 'very good'. So find out how UWE is rated in comparison, if the reputation means a lot to you - but bear in mind that there are schools out there better than the two 'most prestigious' ones. Also, if you can raise this with a top firm, I'm sure they can be quite flexible on this issue, or at least would hear you out. Maybe ask them at a university presentation or something? I don't see why they should object, as long as they've got you doing their preferred modules at an equally good/better institution - unless they've signed contracts with BPP/CoL swearing they will send all their trainees there. I don't think there's that many of them that have, though.

Reply 5

Lewisy-boy

11

You're right about the London thing, definitely. although it's less to do with electives as all law schools are able to offer appropriate ones, it's all on the location. maybe they want to have you all available to meet up a couple times or whatever, who knows. either way, i think i would only do uni in london (at any stage) if the firm i was going to work for said "you are going to BPP" or the like. also, bear in mind that they have branches outside of london if you still want the brand but dont want the location.

Reply 6

chalks

12

Lewisy-boy

You're right about the London thing, definitely. although it's less to do with electives as all law schools are able to offer appropriate ones, it's all on the location. maybe they want to have you all available to meet up a couple times or whatever, who knows. either way, i think i would only do uni in london (at any stage) if the firm i was going to work for said "you are going to BPP" or the like. also, bear in mind that they have branches outside of london if you still want the brand but dont want the location.

To be honest, I don't think there's any particular relevance about location. The firms aren't bothered whether you're in London, Leeds or Timbuctoo provided the law school is one which they think is good enough. Just because you're studying in London doesn't mean that you pop in for coffee with your future managing partner once a month. If the firm lays on any sort of function for future trainees then they'll pay for you to travel down to London as appropriate.

If you're going to work in London as a trainee then I'd strongly recommend studying outside London for as long as possible - enjoy it while you can!!!

Reply 7

Lewisy-boy

11

So why do you think they do it?

So that they can negotiate a block discount if they are a big firm to send all their trainees to one place? After all, people like A&O taking as many as they do that might be possible.

Reply 8

ONBH

Where you do your GDL is very important, if only for the quality of teching you get which can vary widely. However, the location is irrelevant. Most people opt for London as it's where they will be working and it makes it handy for interviews. However, once you have your TC, your firm will normally leave you alone for your GDL year - they'll invite you to a couple of events and send you a Christmas card but they don't organise regular events or want to constantly assess your progress so there's no reason to be in London on that note. From a personal perspective, BPP is the best place to study in London and I wish I had opted for them simply because of the resources and support available for their students.

Reply 9

dragon_1706

ONBH

Where you do your GDL is very important, if only for the quality of teching you get which can vary widely. However, the location is irrelevant. Most people opt for London as it's where they will be working and it makes it handy for interviews. However, once you have your TC, your firm will normally leave you alone for your GDL year - they'll invite you to a couple of events and send you a Christmas card but they don't organise regular events or want to constantly assess your progress so there's no reason to be in London on that note. From a personal perspective, BPP is the best place to study in London and I wish I had opted for them simply because of the resources and support available for their students.

I disagree. I certainly don't think it matters in terms of reputation, but I'm not sure how much difference quality of teaching makes in the long term. If anything it probably makes a difference in terms of how much you enjoy the year.

Reply 10

Lewisy-boy

11

It makes a difference to enjoyment, ease etc as quality teaching can help. But, in terms of jobs, I think the qualifications are pretty much the same that you come out with at the end of the day. All the places which offer the postgrad law courses seem to be fairly equally respected.

Reply 11

ONBH

I agree that reputation is a largely irrelevant criteria but the GDL is a fairly intensive course and can be very different to the degree you may have studied. Because of this the quality of teaching really can make a difference to how well you do, especially in the first couple of months when you're learning the basics and picking up many areas of the law for the first time.

Reply 12

Reema

14

Is anyone currently studying the GDL who can give an accurate reflection of how much time it takes up on average a week?!

Reply 13

ONBH

Yes, I am currently at the C of L in London and regards hours it is something like as follows: 10 to 12 hours of lectures per week, plus 3 to 4.5 hours of classes, plus 10 to 15 hours of prep time for classes plus as much or as little independant study you want to do on the material itself. Normally the work associated with the lectures each week will take you probably 20 or so hours each week to do properly. It sounds like quite a heavy workload for a student but in reality I find myself going in a just doing a good day's work each day of the week and then the weekends are free. Obviously when you have an assessed essay due in each week then it takes a little longer. Hope that helps

Reply 14

dragon_1706

We had 6 hours of lectures a week plus 8 of seminars. There was heaps of work to do between classes... I wasn't at all organised last year, so I really don't know how the hours worked out in an average week.

Reply 15

Reema

14

ONBH

Yes, I am currently at the C of L in London and regards hours it is something like as follows: 10 to 12 hours of lectures per week, plus 3 to 4.5 hours of classes, plus 10 to 15 hours of prep time for classes plus as much or as little independant study you want to do on the material itself. Normally the work associated with the lectures each week will take you probably 20 or so hours each week to do properly. It sounds like quite a heavy workload for a student but in reality I find myself going in a just doing a good day's work each day of the week and then the weekends are free. Obviously when you have an assessed essay due in each week then it takes a little longer. Hope that helps

Free weekends sounds amazing :wink:

. At least they won't kill us!

Reply 16

rah2

6

I'm rubbish at planning ahead so generally it is two hours (sometimes three) of lectures per day, plus around three 'small groups' a week which are an hour and a half each. What is that like 16 hours?

The prep work for the small groups takes on average around two hours (often less) per session and the lecture reading is pretty much unnecessary if you have lecturers as good as ours. You will definetly have weekends free!

BPP vs. CoL vs. UWE

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