The Student Room Group
Carr Saunders Halls, LSE
London School of Economics
London

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Reply 20
Gnostic V
Blair and his ilk are a strange bastardised hybrid of Thatcher and Marx.


Hmmm...Blair and Marx? Cant really see Marx's place in the hybrid. He's most definitely a Thatcherite however. We're all Thatcherites now.
Carr Saunders Halls, LSE
London School of Economics
London
kingslaw
Hmmm...Blair and Marx? Cant really see Marx's place in the hybrid. He's most definitely a Thatcherite however. We're all Thatcherites now.


I think the original comment, about blending Marx and Thatcher, referred to how the Third Way attempts to combine socialist and conservative traditions...
Reply 22
Gnostic V
Indeed. But it’s a very unstable synthesis. Perhaps not even a synthesis at all. The gloss is clearly Thatcherite but beneath that very thin layer still remains the spirit of resentment that drove the early Christians and, later, the Bolsheviks into bloody revolution and destruction of everything that is high and noble. The socialist meme has mutated to survive, to adapt to its surroundings. It now embraces the camouflage of a lamb but the demonic forked tongue is not far away. Blair has done more damage to this country than the Luftwaffe ever did. For damage seen always has a finite life because in the end it can be seen and repaired. But unseen decay and damage can potentially go on forever because one cannot repair something one is not conscious of.

All living beings, unless they achieve an apotheosis, have a life and death cycle. So too do nations. Britain is now a dying nation her glory days are past. The death-instinct has been activated, and, like a cancer, the nihilist liberals are busy, hell-bent on destroying all forms of health, vitality, strength and power - in short, life of this nation. Unless we throw ourselves into a fire and become reborn like the Phoenix, we shall decay into the nothingness, the void that is now at the heart of our collective-spirit.

Socialism is not simply an error of thinking it is a symptom of perennial cancer that threatens to make all equal by make all nothing.



...straight from the BNP's guide to conspiracy theories. Next week we'll bring you why asylum seekers are killing the great and glorious United Kingdom.
Reply 23
JUSTaGIRL
:rolleyes: Another Dawkinsian drone, I see.


Its OK. I dont think he seriously believes some of the drivel he writes.
Reply 24
Gnostic V
Another thing: you will never catch a Russian smiling. They are the most miserable people on earth. Should we be surprised, then, to learn that they were the first to succumb to (or, rather, manifest) communism?


a rough generalization for a nation of 150 milion people, don't you think?

and even if they were miserable, it wouldn't be beacause they were first to have communism, but because they first experienced what power in wrong hands under the disguise of quasi-communism can produce
Gnostic V
I find Richard Dawkins' books to be very enjoyable reading.


Dawkins has lots of LSE connections, primarily with the philosophy dept.
Reply 26
Gnostic V
Rough, yes, but true nevertheless.

Also, please don't echo the old "the oppression of the individual in Communist countries was only a problem of political practise, not the theory itself" argument. As Popper demonstrated, Marxist political theory is flawed.


No, please dont use the old arguement. Instead, echo the widely accepted view of the USSR as a state capitalist country.
Reply 27
Gnostic V
1) The BNP is socialist.
2) I am advocating no conscious conspiracy of individuals - socialists are motivated unconsciously by the death-instinct. Like animals, they have no awareness of why they think and feel the way they do.


1) Self-proclaimed national socialists

2) If anyone wishes to reproduce this bulls*t and utilise it to their own point of arguement, simply replace 'socialists' with any other group(s) you dont like or disagree with. Clearly if Gnostic doesnt feel the need to back up his amusing points, then no-one else need have to!
Reply 28
Gnostic V
You commies denying that the USSR was communist is like the American evangelicals denying that Roman Catholicism is Christian. It really is laughable.


Apart from one is backed up with a whole history of intellectuals who have succesfully argued their point, and the other is just a bunch of whacky Christians who discredit everything they dont agree with.

Anyway, with a concept as massively subject as faith and spirituality, there are no objective determinants of what makes or doesnt make something truly Christian - hence the massive theological/ideological variation within what we lump together as Christianity. So if an American Evangelical wishes to dismiss the RC as un-Christian, then that is a matter of personal faith where the person accepts what (s)he believes as uncategorically true, and hence very difficult argue against - apart from arguing against the basis of their faith in the first place.
Reply 29
Gnostic V
So what if they're nationalist? They're still socialists like you.


And that means that all socialists are the same. We may both call ourselves socialist, but to say we are the same is just absurd that I feel embarrassed that I have to explain why to someone who likes to see themselves as intelligent like yourself. In very very basic terms, one socialism believes in internationalism, and thus the equality and solidarity of the working-class movement on a world-wide scale, the other is based on the superiority of one race/nation as opposed to othersm whose greatness should be reached by rejecting the individualism inherent in capitalism. As the umbrella ideology that is socialism holds equality as it fundamental concept, a variation of this concept between national socialism and other socialisms is obviously going to have an effect of effection each ideology throughout.

Gnostic V
Now we're onto personal attacks.


A criticism of your inability to back up your points is hardly a personal attack. Thats just a cheap way of getting out of holding any of your beliefs to scrutiny.
Reply 30
Gnostic V
Funny, an evangelical can argue exactly the same:

Apart from one is backed up with a whole history of intellectuals (such as Augustine) who have succesfully argued their point, and the other is just a bunch of whacky revolutionaries who discredit everything they dont agree with.

Anyway, with a concept as massively subject as historicism and interpretation of The Communist Manifesto, there are no objective determinants of what makes or doesnt make something truly Communist - hence the massive political/ideological variation within what we lump together as Communism. So if a Communist wishes to dismiss one Communist group as not Communist, then that is a matter of personal belief where the person accepts what (s)he believes as uncategorically true, and hence very difficult argue against - apart from arguing against the basis of their belief in the first place.


I never said you couldn't apply it to both, or anything else, my friend. Sorry, was that a personal attack? :rolleyes:
Reply 31
Gnostic V
Nope.


Oh good. I know how sensitive you can be.
Reply 32
Gnostic V
Of course socialists come in many shapes and sizes - some are vegetarians, others hippies, others nationalistic (Hitler was a national socialist), others internationalist (Lenin). Some smoke and some don't. But they can all legitimately fall under the category of socialist because of their shared views on society and economics, regardless of their other views.


I never said they couldnt fall under the category 'socialist'. However, they are all still different, some more than others. Otherwise they wouldnt have spent most of the 20th century slaughtering each other.
Reply 33
Gnostic V
To return to your cousins, the Christians (actually Christianity is more of the mother of socialism than its cousin, but we’ll stick with cousin for the time being), they too have been at war, often bloody, against each other. From the very beginning they were at each other’s throats (there is hardly a single book in the New Testament, for example, that doesn’t attack or slag off a different Christian group), and the Protestant and Catholic wars are well known. And yet there is an irreducible core that they share, that which makes them Christian.

Or take us Europeans we are different in so many ways and yet there is still an irreducible European core that we all share, despite being at war against each other for the past four millennia.

So, yes, socialists do vary in their beliefs in many areas, but there is an irreducible core, socialism, that connects you all, that you all share, from Marx and Hitler to you.

And I believe that this socialist core is derived from a deeper, unconscious complex, namely what Freud called the death-instinct (I’m in no way a Freudian but I believe he had something with his notion of the death-instinct drive).


Chrisitianity is the mother of Western society. All ideologies have either built upon, or as a reaction to, established Christian values and institutions, or have builit upon values or institutions originally founded by Christianity.

Apart from your nicely unsubstantiated death-insitinct point, why are you insisting on arguing points that no-one thus far has disagreed with?
It is exactly what cancer cells do at the microscopic level. Socialism is at the world level what cancer is the individual level.


You don't half spout some pseudo-intellectual shite.
Reply 35
Gnostic V
As for the death-instinct, have you ever asked why you feel that all people should be equal? Have you ever examined life - do you not see that life is about expansion, growth, vitality, energy, change, and difference? Life changes and becomes different - things become unequal. The weaker forms perish to make way for the higher forms that in turn eventually get replaced by superior forms of life.


very nice in theory, but today's world unfortunately doesn't enable this.

Gnostic V
Rough, yes, but true nevertheless.


I shared a room with a Russian for two years, so believe me, I know that the judgement is both rough and false. and I probably met more Russians in my life than you.

Gnostic V
Also, please don't echo the old "the oppression of the individual in Communist countries was only a problem of political practise, not the theory itself" argument


USSR was not communist in marx's sense. if you want to call that communism then go ahead, but it was not marx's communism. I don't think either is quite suitable anyway (marxism or communism).


I don't intend to argue further because I see that in the end, it all comes down to personal attacks, and it would be only a matter of time when someone started throwing spears at me. so I rest my case on this.

and you've gone way offtopic with this debate, so please start a new thread or settle it over PM.
Reply 36
Gnostic V
You're in the EU now, my Slovenian friend - time your countrymen put away their spears :wink:.


low one, my fellow-EU tribeman.

I saw many more brits use their spears than my countrymen. and many many more uncivilised individuals.
Reply 37
Gnostic V
"I don't intend to argue further" our Slovakian friend said. And then he did. I fear that this will not be the last time the slavs deceive now that we've included some of them within our borders...


I fear your comprehension skills are slightly under what one might expect from a native speaker. "arguing further" means to continue arguing the previous point (which was about communism et al). and if you read my post, I am not mentioning the previous argument at all.

my dear Anglo-Saxon-Franco-Nordic-whatever friend, I pity your sarcasm and arrogance. and even more I pity your thick-wittedness.

and by the way, it's not Slovakian. it's not Slovenian. it's Slovene. enhance your vocabulary now that you've let us inside your borders.
Marx: I've actually studied a lot of his work.

To be fair to him he was a deep and painstaking thinker who came up with some influential ideas. He is particularly interesting as an economic historian.

But let's face it, whenever his ideas have been attached to a political programmes the results have been abysmal.

And people are always lately trying to claim that he was really underneath it all a German romanticist, a liberal individualist for whom collectivism was just a stage on a journey to a kind of steam age hippy nirvana(pace his work in the 'German Ideology'), but believe me he was a real revolutionary, a real blood and thunder fuck you jimmy ideologue. Stalin murderded tens of millions, not so long ago in our history, more than Hitler, and I don't think Marx would have turned up his nose at it. He might have thought it was a bit crude, a bit over the top, but only a bit. He was for real, Marx, and at the end of the day he stood for the same crude, vicious collectivism as Hitler (a 'national' socialist of a slightly different stamp from Stalin's 'socialism in one country')..
Igor
I fear your comprehension skills are slightly under what one might expect from a native speaker. "arguing further" means to continue arguing the previous point (which was about communism et al). and if you read my post, I am by not mentioning the previous argument at all.

my dear Anglo-Saxon-Franco-Nordic-whatever friend, I pity your sarcasm and arrogance. and even more I pity your thick-wittedness.

and by the way, it's not Slovakian. it's not Slovenian. it's Slovene. enhance your vocabulary now that you've let us inside our borders.


Don't take it to heart, Igor, it's a game...Gnostic is an interesting person..he just likes to provoke....he wants you to say something lively in return...

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