Why has Scotland changed so much

Scotland has changed its political views drastically in the recent past, from being one of the most conservative and pro Union country of the UK to one of the most left wing and anti Union. Also scotland used be the most religious but now one of the least.

Why has Scotland moved so drastically compared to the rest of the UK?

Reply 1

L i b

I'm not sure I buy the religion point. I don't think it has declined faster in Scotland.

Anyway, the pro-union thing is one point. For a long time, there were a lot of people in Scotland who would, if pushed, have said they would have liked the idea of independence but for the circumstances they found themselves in. It wasn't a theoretical disagreement with the proposition, but one of practicality. All other things being equal, they might have given it a punt.

The very nature of the referendum campaign gave equal credence to arguments from both sides. Broadcasters didn't discriminate. This gave nationalists a platform and a credibility they'd never enjoyed before. It shifted the famous Overton window and made separation look like a reasonable possibility. That was an inevitable negative for the pro-union camp. The nationalist campaign also became a natural home for the anti-establishment, the cranks and the 'disaffected',

Scotland used to vote Conservative in the 1950s - then for a while it was overwhelmingly Labour. As with every movement, Labour became moribund and were to some degree outmaneuvered by the SNP. Ultimately though, people will want to change their politicians now and again: the SNP picked up from that, just as the Conservatives did in England - both being the second party in each.

I wouldn't say it was any less small-c conservative though: the SNP have done a fine job of opposing virtually every reform made at UK level since 2007, and have been entirely reluctant to institute any significant reforms to things like schools or the NHS. They make the Conservative Party look like radicals.

Reply 2

babybuntin

Original post by Wee.Guy

l would have to agree with the religious part. No answer to why there has been a decline in people's religious beliefs. Maybe they just don't care anymore or have no time because their to busy out campaigning :smile:

Poll tax killed Tories, the reintroduction of the poll tax aka bedroom tax keeps them dead.
Scotland will never got over that.. Labour took the Scottish electorate for granted and treated them as fools .. ( That's worse in my eyes )
it's like buying a computer that's never worked from the day you bought it and the shop refuse to take any reasonability for selling you faulty goods and won't give you a refund. You never shop there again, you learned your lesson.

The behaviour of the south during the election showed Scotland an even clearer picture now.

If Westminster still continue to play difficult regarding the SNP attempts to claim their promised extra powers and continue to speak about England will receive extra this and that, it will bring independence 2 steps closer.. :smile:

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 3

L i b

Original post by babybuntin

Poll tax killed Tories, the reintroduction of the poll tax aka bedroom tax keeps them dead.

The Tories vote in Scotland went up after the introduction of the poll tax. It came in back in 1989, and was still in effect until 1993 - although the change to the council tax was announced before that.

In 1992, however, the Conservatives won an extra seat in Scotland (going from 10 to 11) and saw their vote share increase, while the party UK-wide saw its vote share go down and lost 40 seats.

The poll tax was a local authority tax. The "bedroom tax" isn't a tax, it's a reduction in housing benefit for social renting tenants who have a room above the pre-existing housing benefit size criteria. Local government funding is devolved to the Scottish Parliament.

If Westminster still continue to play difficult regarding the SNP attempts to claim their promised extra powers and continue to speak about England will receive extra this and that, it will bring independence 2 steps closer.. :smile:

Even if you're right, what does it matter? There won't be another referendum for a long time, by which I doubt the politics of 2015 will be top of the agenda. If it's 2034, can you really see anything now making a huge difference?

England doesn't get extra anything. Scotland still gets about £1,400 extra public spending per person than England - which even I, as a Scot, think is ridiculous. To suggest there's some sort of raw deal here is mental.

Anyway, the Smith Commission will be implemented in full. No-one is disputing that, and it is the agreed position of all five main political parties in Scotland. It is Tory policy.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 4

Coffinman

Original post by L i b

England doesn't get extra anything. Scotland still gets about £1,400 extra public spending per person than England - which even I, as a Scot, think is ridiculous. To suggest there's some sort of raw deal here is mental.

People keep making comments about this but where exactly is this money going?

Reply 5

redferry

Original post by Wee.Guy

You have to realise that the SNP policies are in the main more right wing than labours.

They are by no means a left wing party.

Reply 6

Wee.Guy

Original post by redferry

You have to realise that the SNP policies are in the main more right wing than labours.

They are by no means a left wing party.

could you give some examples of their right wing policies?

Reply 7

redferry

Original post by Wee.Guy

could you give some examples of their right wing policies?

Well the overarching nationalism for starters.

Then there's the policy of cutting corporation tax, the no strike deal they did, resisting enquiries into the treatment of striking miners, makingnitneasier to extract oil and basing the economy on that, the authoritarian structure within the party and previously blockingnlabour proposals for living wage.

Reply 8

Rakas21

Original post by Wee.Guy

The move towards independence stems primarily from two things.

Firstly, Scotland entered the union as a supposed equal partner and while well treated during empire (Glasgow did very well), the union is now dominated by England due to population growth. Indeed, this will only get worse (my crude calculations suggest the Scottish population is growing at 6% per decade and England at 8% per decade. Any solution which weights votes by population therefore, only makes Scotland feel that they are treated like a region rather than a country and unfortunately, the Scots do identify as Scottish over British even if they voted for the union according to census results.

The second and bigger issue is one that is felt in large swathes of the UK, the N/S divide or rather the London/everywhere else divide. With the collapse of traditional industries and empire, Scotland like much of the north fell on hard times away from the new oil regions and like most of the north, government ploughed money into London while leaving everybody else with pacers and the like. Now obviously during the last business cycle we did see improvement in some cities including in Scotland however because of the perception that government=up the ass of London, the people in Edinburgh and the like credit the devolved government more than they do Westminster and this seemed to give rise to the SNP before the Great Recession. They were then handed a recession and austerity, made in Westminster. By allowing them a referendum the SNP were also given the biggest marketing platform of any political party in the world.

Without giving Scotland a greater stake in the union (power of veto, regional Lords) i don't see how the union survives in the long term.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 9

aaronlowe

Original post by Wee.Guy

I don't think Scotland has moved, it's just the rest of the UK has finally woken up to what Scots have been saying for the past 300 years.

Just cause Scots want self determination doesn't mean they're anti Union. Why is everyone so blindsided by the Union that they can only see others views as reactions for or against it? Can't we have our own opinion that isn't based on someone else's?