[jbt757]

Hi,
Sorry, Im really new to all this. I could do with some advice about finding the right guy and a few other smaller questions. Is this the right place to ask about it? If so (or if correctly directed to the right place) then I will expand with details on my situation.

Thankyou

[Hylean]

(Original post by EierVonSatan)
*snips*

(Original post by LPK)
*snips*

So after a lot of thought, I've come to a conclusion. It seems we were coming at the discussing cross ways. You, and others, view coming out as just admitting to being lgbt, whereas, I viewed it more as shouting it from the roof tops kind of thing that I often see with my "gay lifestyle" mates (I need a better term for that, it's too constricting and general ).

I agree that the former is definitely needed in a non-lgbt-centric society, and your examples have been really helpful. I'm sorry if I offended anyone, wasn't my intention. Was a really interesting discussion and gave me lots to think about.

So, as a continuation, do you ever think there will be a time when one doesn't need to come out, or coming out will involve straight people? To which I might add, I loved that video, "are you straight?"

[kerriew316]

I thought i'd get involved but i don't know where to start with the 47 pages :')

[MrsLovett112]

(Original post by kerriew316)
I thought i'd get involved but i don't know where to start with the 47 pages :')

I just skipped to the end. And when I found the end, there's someone as confused as I am. But hey, 47 pages and a long weekend coming up, this'll be good

[dbmag9]

(Original post by kerriew316)
I thought i'd get involved but i don't know where to start with the 47 pages :')

(Original post by MrsLovett112)
I just skipped to the end. And when I found the end, there's someone as confused as I am. But hey, 47 pages and a long weekend coming up, this'll be good

Nothing much happens in this thread; you'd be better off coming to the LGBT Chat Thread (good luck reading all of that, though ).

[LPK]

(Original post by Hylean)
So after a lot of thought, I've come to a conclusion. It seems we were coming at the discussing cross ways. You, and others, view coming out as just admitting to being lgbt, whereas, I viewed it more as shouting it from the roof tops kind of thing that I often see with my "gay lifestyle" mates (I need a better term for that, it's too constricting and general ).

I agree that the former is definitely needed in a non-lgbt-centric society, and your examples have been really helpful. I'm sorry if I offended anyone, wasn't my intention. Was a really interesting discussion and gave me lots to think about.

So, as a continuation, do you ever think there will be a time when one doesn't need to come out, or coming out will involve straight people? To which I might add, I loved that video, "are you straight?"

No offense takennn. I'm a bit of a nerd when it comes to these types of discussions so I could debate it all day without taking any of it personally.

As for your question, I don't think we'll reach that position any time soon (if at all). But I also think that's the wrong question to ask as it implies that heteronormativity is never desirable to have, which I don't feel is ultimately accurate. My key concern isn't that society stops making sexual presumptions about people, but that it doesn't react in a hostile manner towards those who actually do 'come out' as LGBT. In an ideal world people would simply be able to tell somebody that they aren't heterosexual and that's the end of it. It wouldn't really be realistic, in my view, to expect society to adopt a value-system that completely avoids orientation labels because we are far too reliant on them already, and it would ignore the obvious fact that heterosexuality is far more prevalent within society than other sexualities.

It's quite interesting really because I've touched upon this within my sociological assignments on LGBT communities, and one of the most noticable changes that has occured over time is the social context that is attached to 'coming out'. During the Stonewall Riots, LGBT people were encouraged to come out as a way of highlighting their existence so that people could see that they contributed to society in the same ways as heterosexuals, and this action was interpreted by others as a way of groups highlighting their 'deviance'. Nowadays the context has changed quite a bit, and the process of 'coming out' is viewed as a way of highlighting a lack of conformity to mainstream assumptions of sexuality, and the acceptance of that 'deviation' has been reinforced by scientific research that offers a vast amount of literature on the importance of acceptance, as well as offering empirical research on the legitimacy of same-sex relations in the context of relationship formation & stability, and their ability to offer a stable family household to children.

The absolute ideal would be that people simply don't make assumptions about another persons sexuality, but I think we're a long way off that ever happening. There are theories from people such as Kinsey which argue that sexuality is a lot more fluid than we think so perhaps it is possible that we'll reach that stage one day, but I think it's more important that people know that 'coming out' doesn't have to be a process that can result in the breakdown of relationships with family and friends. At the moment we're stuck in a phase where homophobia is considered a form of deviance, but LGBT people are still at serious risk of rejection should they come out. Tackling that would make the 'coming out' process a gazillion times easier (and less dramatic), but most importantly it still doesn't lose focus on the fact that LGBT communities are a small minority, and for that reason it's important that it doesn't try and demand too much at once and put itself in a position of being marginalised. There's no reason that society can't be heteronormative whilst also completely accepting alternative sexual orientations. There's nothing wrong with accepting that most people are straight whilst also accepting that others aren't but still deserve the same legal rights. It's when the heteronormativity is used as a way to bash others that it becomes a problem, but that will be there regardless of how dominant heteronormative structures are.

Martin.

PS. I'm slightly tipsy at the moment, so I do apologise if some of that is waffly or doesn't make sense. I'm not in a proof-reading state at the moment.

[gagaslilmonsteruk]

With all the stuff that's going on in the news lately with the argument with the Church of England, I feel this is relevant to bring up with the thread. The way I see it people can marry whom they wish, but surely other churches are ok with this even though CofE isn't? I mean I don't remember the catholic churches in several European countries kicking up a fuss about it - particularly Spain, so surely LGBT people can still marry in certain churches. Asides, there is still the option of registry office or getting married in a town hall or something right. Eventually the CofE will realise how backwards its attitudes are, especially if other branches of the church allow LGBT marriages to go ahead. What are your personal thoughts on this issue?

[mmmpie]

(Original post by gagaslilmonsteruk)
With all the stuff that's going on in the news lately with the argument with the Church of England, I feel this is relevant to bring up with the thread. The way I see it people can marry whom they wish, but surely other churches are ok with this even though CofE isn't? I mean I don't remember the catholic churches in several European countries kicking up a fuss about it - particularly Spain, so surely LGBT people can still marry in certain churches. Asides, there is still the option of registry office or getting married in a town hall or something right. Eventually the CofE will realise how backwards its attitudes are, especially if other branches of the church allow LGBT marriages to go ahead. What are your personal thoughts on this issue?

Reform Judaism, the Quakers, and the Unitarians have all announced their intention to sue the government if the current proposals go through. They will argue that legalizing same sex marriage but forbidding them to perform one violates their freedom of religion and freedom from discrimination.

The CodE seems to be making a good argument to have itself disestablished. A bunch of supposedly intelligent people who believe so fervently in iron age tribal myths should know better than to draw attention to how backward they are.

[Hewitt]

I made a request to join a few days ago, any reason why I haven't been accepted as a member?

[EierVonSatan]

(Original post by Hewitt)
I made a request to join a few days ago, any reason why I haven't been accepted as a member?

There is probably a huge queue given that the leader is pretty inactive. Certainly nothing personal

[EierVonSatan]

(Original post by Unicron)
Is there anything that can be done, i.e. changing the leaders/admins to a more active one?

Two options really: chose a new more active leader or set the group to automatically approve all join requests (so the day-to-day job of leader doesn't need to be an active user).

If you guys wanted an active leader we'd have to see who was up for it and if there were several, could have a vote on it?

[ViceVersa]

(Original post by EierVonSatan)
Two options really: chose a new more active leader or set the group to automatically approve all join requests (so the day-to-day job of leader doesn't need to be an active user).

If you guys wanted an active leader we'd have to see who was up for it and if there were several, could have a vote on it?

I'll be happy to volunteer

[EierVonSatan]

(Original post by ViceVersa)
I'll be happy to volunteer

Yay, one

(Original post by Mad Vlad)
QFA

Want to get the ball rolling on this, if you have time?

[ViceVersa]

(Original post by EierVonSatan)
Yay, one

Well what can I say

[Thor-the-Lion]

It would be good to see the thread more active

[Anweener]

(Original post by Thor-the-Lion)
It would be good to see the thread more active

Performs thread resuscitation.

[Anweener]

Guess i didn't really :-(


Posted from TSR Mobile

[Anonymous]

Just a question really, as I wasn't sure where to post this... where's the best place to go for someone utterly confused about their sexuality?

[ViceVersa]

(Original post by Anweener)
Performs thread resuscitation.

Hey, I'm here!

(Original post by Anonymous)
Just a question really, as I wasn't sure where to post this... where's the best place to go for someone utterly confused about their sexuality?

Where as in where on TSR?

[Anweener]

(Original post by Anonymous)
Just a question really, as I wasn't sure where to post this... where's the best place to go for someone utterly confused about their sexuality?

I would say a 'place' to go would be forums just like this, talk about your feelings and what you want to do about them. Other than that, I think experimenting really helps to learn about what you do and don't like.

(Original post by ViceVersa)
Hey, I'm here!

OOOPS, Well hey! Good to see someone about