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How to show the sum of these cosines is -1/2? (And find the sum of the sines?)

How do I do the last part of this question? (Show the sum of sines and cosines)

I was tempted to try and do some trig manipulation to find the value of cos(6pi/7) and use the sum of a geometric series to find the sum of cos(2pi/7), cos(4pi/7), cos(6pi/7) and cos(8pi/7) but that would be a lot of work and I don't think that's how the question was intended to be done
Original post by IFapToEquations
How do I do the last part of this question? (Show the sum of sines and cosines)I was tempted to try and do some trig manipulation to find the value of cos(6pi/7) and use the sum of a geometric series to find the sum of cos(2pi/7), cos(4pi/7), cos(6pi/7) and cos(8pi/7) but that would be a lot of work and I don't think that's how the question was intended to be done


You have to use the α\alpha they have given you and the equation in some way.

Maybe write α=ei2π7\displaystyle \alpha =e ^{i \frac{2 \pi}{7}} to make the calculations easier.

Could you post your working out to the previous parts of the question?

PS: kwl name
Original post by rayquaza17
You have to use the α\alpha they have given you and the equation in some way.

Maybe write α=ei2π7\displaystyle \alpha =e ^{i \frac{2 \pi}{7}} to make the calculations easier.

Could you post your working out to the previous parts of the question?

PS: kwl name


hang on, just a second. My email is not receiving the pictures i sent from my iphone for some reason
Reply 3
I remember doing this quite a while ago. The main idea to keep in mind is that the roots of unity are conjugates of the other roots


Posted from TSR Mobile
Reply 4
How is the sum of the cosines related to the expression

alpha + alpha^2 + alpha^4?
Original post by RichE
How is the sum of the cosines related to the expression

alpha + alpha^2 + alpha^4?


That was the first thought that came into my head when doing the question, but I didn't see anything to it. I know it's the real part of the alpha expression, but I don't see anything useful I can do just by knowing it's the real part.

Original post by Wesbian
I remember doing this quite a while ago. The main idea to keep in mind is that the roots of unity are conjugates of the other rootsPosted from TSR Mobile


What's a root of unity and a conjugate? lol, I'm guessing something to do with a complex number

I haven't actually been taught anything about the imaginary numbers all I know is that euler formula and that they are the square root of -1

I'm just trying to wing this question with my (basic) AS level math knowledge.
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 6
Original post by IFapToEquations
That was the first thought that came into my head when doing the question, but I didn't see anything to it. I know it's the real part of the alpha expression, but I don't see anything useful I can do just by knowing it's the real part.


Have you found A, B? In which case don't you know what

alpha + alpha^2 + alpha^4

equals?
I got A and B in terms of some trig function of some amount of pi over 7 that I'm not sure what the exact value is
Original post by RichE
Have you found A, B? In which case don't you know what

alpha + alpha^2 + alpha^4

equals?
Reply 8
Original post by IFapToEquations
What's a root of unity and a conjugate? lol, I'm guessing something to do with a complex number

I haven't actually been taught anything about the imaginary numbers all I know is that euler formula and that they are the square root of -1

I'm just trying to wing this question with my (basic) AS level math knowledge.


No offence, but this isn't really the sort of question you should be trying to "wing" with basic AS knowledge!

I think I did this question ages ago, and it's using a fair amount of assumed knowledge - Euler / DeMoivre or equivalent; expression for nth roots of unity; plus basic concepts of complex numbers - conjugate; expressing coefficients of polynomials in terms of roots etc.

If you've got a text that covers the basics of FP1 complex numbers just blast your way through it to get up to speed and then have another crack at it. Once you've got the basics in place I reckon you can crack this problem fairly easily :smile:
Original post by davros
No offence, but this isn't really the sort of question you should be trying to "wing" with basic AS knowledge!


I don't see why I shouldn't be trying to 'wing' these questions, I need practice for my core modules coming up. I can do most of the questions on the paper I found them on but it's the complex number thing that screws with me a bit sometimes, good thing that's not on any of the modules that I have to do... this year.

I'll probably pick up that Further Pure textbook in the summer and go through it.

I've learned Euler and De Moivre's out of my own interest, but I think that's about all I have in my toolkit for tackling complex numbers.
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 10
The pointr
Original post by IFapToEquations
I don't see why I shouldn't be trying to 'wing' these questions, I need practice for my as core modules coming up. I can do most of the questions on the paper I found them on but it's the complex number thing that screws with me a bit sometimes, good thing that's not on C2

I'll probably pick up that Further Pure textbook in the summer and go through it.

I've learned Euler and De Moivre's out of my own interest, but I think that's about all I have in my toolkit for tackling complex numbers.


The "point" is that Euler and De Moivre are more advanced bits of complex numbers. You should have covered what a conjugate is in the very first 'lesson' you did in complex numbers - basically if z is a complex number z = x + iy then the the conjugate is z* = x - iy (sometimes denoted by z with a bar over the top). If z is complex then both zz* and z + z* are real. The nth roots of unity are basically the n distinct numbers that satisfy z^n = 1.

I'm not saying you can't wing the question - what I'm saying is that you should be prepared to go back to the textbook and grab the basics that you need first :smile:
Original post by davros
The pointr

The "point" is that Euler and De Moivre are more advanced bits of complex numbers. You should have covered what a conjugate is in the very first 'lesson' you did in complex numbers - basically if z is a complex number z = x + iy then the the conjugate is z* = x - iy (sometimes denoted by z with a bar over the top). If z is complex then both zz* and z + z* are real. The nth roots of unity are basically the n distinct numbers that satisfy z^n = 1.

I'm not saying you can't wing the question - what I'm saying is that you should be prepared to go back to the textbook and grab the basics that you need first :smile:


ah so I do know what a conjugate is. Just didn't know the name for it

You shouldn't have to learn that, it's just the difference of two squares and then adding and subtracting
Reply 12
Original post by IFapToEquations
You shouldn't have to learn that, it's just the difference of two squares and then adding and subtracting


I was giving you some (helpful) context because you implied that you didn't know what a conjugate was!

I tell you what: I'll stop trying to be helpful now, and you can tell us what working you've done so far! Have you got the values of A and B now, in which case you should be able to answer RichE's question from earlier?
Original post by IFapToEquations
hang on, just a second. My email is not receiving the pictures i sent from my iphone for some reason



54635473.jpg
Original post by rayquaza17
54635473.jpg


I just realised cellular data was turned off for mail on my phone, so sorry lol

edit: still not sending the image wtf
(edited 8 years ago)
photo (21).jpg

Clearer edit
Original post by davros
I was giving you some (helpful) context because you implied that you didn't know what a conjugate was!

I tell you what: I'll stop trying to be helpful now, and you can tell us what working you've done so far! Have you got the values of A and B now, in which case you should be able to answer RichE's question from earlier?


yep posted workings
sorry, didn't know I pissed you off
Reply 17
Original post by IFapToEquations
yep posted workings
sorry, didn't know I pissed you off


Don't worry about it - there are worse things happening on TSR :smile:

I'll let somebody else comment on your workings - I think you've actually missed the point of the question in the way you've approached it, but I need to get some other stuff sorted before tomorrow morning so I haven't got time to comment in detail.
Original post by IFapToEquations
How do I do the last part of this question? (Show the sum of sines and cosines)

I was tempted to try and do some trig manipulation to find the value of cos(6pi/7) and use the sum of a geometric series to find the sum of cos(2pi/7), cos(4pi/7), cos(6pi/7) and cos(8pi/7) but that would be a lot of work and I don't think that's how the question was intended to be done


1. The comment re: "guessing the other root" is, I suppose, to suggest to you a fact that you should learn: that if a quadratic has real coefficients then its roots are conjugate i.e.:

z2+Ax+B=(zβ)(zβˉ)z^2+Ax+B = (z-\beta)(z-\bar{\beta})

2. The n'th roots of unity occur in conjugate pairs. You should learn this too. So e.g. in this case α=α6ˉ\alpha = \bar{\alpha^6} etc.

3. z71z^7-1 factorises nicely, into (z1)f(z)(z-1)f(z). What can you say about f(α)f(\alpha)?

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