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How does diversity benefit a 1st world society?

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Original post by napkinsquirrel
There are no patently "British" values, rather a culture and a history. Britain is still a Christian country whether you like it or not; it self identifies as such. In this way, we celebrate Christian holidays, our judicial system is based off of Christian heritage, our flag is based off of patron saints, ordained by the Church.


smh.... I'm not religious, but are you saying people who come here should become Christians? Are you saying they should give up their own culture to be able to stay here? I'm unsure what you are trying to state.
So people throw around the term 'British values', now you're saying its actually culture and history... OK so what is the culture and history of Britain? Please explain
Original post by napkinsquirrel
There are no patently "British" values, rather a culture and a history. Britain is still a Christian country whether you like it or not; it self identifies as such. In this way, we celebrate Christian holidays, our judicial system is based off of Christian heritage, our flag is based off of patron saints, ordained by the Church.


Is that why regular Mosque-attendance is higher than regular Church-attendance?
Original post by Grantland
Why can't I bring up Sharia Law? That's a perfectly valid example of something some immigrants want that goes against western values.


Isn't is self explanatory? Are you blanketing all immigrants as being followers of sharia law? How immature. Western values? what values do you speak about? Im from the west too hombre and the values are predominately based on skin colour. Im not trying to say which one is better, but you talk as if the west is full of peaches and cream.
Original post by napkinsquirrel
Well then I am here to tell you that I am impartial; now you know.

I don't care about immigration; did you not read my previous answers to your comments? It's even in the title of the thread. What are the benefits of diversity in a 1st world country?


Okay.

The two go hand-in-hand. How can you expect immigration without diversity, or diversity without immigration?

Original post by Grantland
It's still evidence for diversity not being a positive thing. 40% of British Muslims is a high number of citizens in our own country who would like courts run by religious figures instead of judges. You can't just brush that off, it's a really disturbing statistic.


It is a frightening statistic, and we can be rightly afraid of radical Islam, but that is no reason to fear diversity itself.
Original post by ilandboi
smh.... I'm not religious, but are you saying people who come here should become Christians? Are you saying they should give up their own culture to be able to stay here? I'm unsure what you are trying to state.
So people throw around the term 'British values', now you're saying its actually culture and history... OK so what is the culture and history of Britain? Please explain


It doesn't matter that you aren't religious; I'm an atheist myself, but there is no denying that the history of Britain, our legal system, tradition in our armed forces, the way our communities are structured and the holidays and festivals that native British people patently celebrate are a direct result of Christianity and to say that this country shouldn't be Christian is a direct infringement on the people who feel like they have common beliefs with the other people who celebrate these things. People complain that the British invaded India or the Crimea and then will tell them straight to their face that they are racist, xenophobic or bigots when immigrants try to enter Britain; it's absurdly hypocritical.
Original post by ilandboi
Isn't is self explanatory? Are you blanketing all immigrants as being followers of sharia law? How immature. Western values? what values do you speak about? Im from the west too hombre and the values are predominately based on skin colour. Im not trying to say which one is better, but you talk as if the west is full of peaches and cream.


Note that I said, some immigrants, as in, not all immigrants. Don't try and debase my argument by putting words in my mouth. Also can you give me an example of a modern western value that's based on skin colour? I'm genuinely curious as to what you're talking about.
Original post by StrangeBanana

It is a frightening statistic, and we can be rightly afraid of radical Islam, but that is no reason to fear diversity itself.


Considering that pushes for more diversity are to blame for the rise of Islam, and thereby radical Islam, in Britain, I think the benefits of diversity should be called into question.
Original post by Grantland
I don't think colonialism is a valid arguing point in the case of immigration and diversity. The colonial policy of the 1600-1900s was made by the elite, why should the common folk of today have to deal with the mistake of the aristocracy 200 years ago?

And believe me, as someone in London, do understand that there are just as many immigrants who don't mingle with "natives" as there are natives who don't mingle with immigrants. It isn't a one-way street.


So I presume that since.. it stop(laughable) 200 years ago.. then the problem just went away? Are you that naive? The systematic demoralization of non ethnic white individuals in this country is down right horrible.
Do you think the masses that come to the uk come thinking they are going to be mean and disgusting to the 'natives' here?

I was grown to be very welcoming when people come to my home. Do you think, the UK people has been welcoming to immigrants? This is just ignorance at its best
Original post by Grantland
Considering that pushes for more diversity are to blame for the rise of Islam, and thereby radical Islam, in Britain, I think the benefits of diversity should be called into question.


No, freedom of religion is to blame for the rise of Islam.
Original post by StrangeBanana
Okay.

The two go hand-in-hand. How can you expect immigration without diversity, or diversity without immigration?


Because you are trying to focus on the economic effect that immigration has on this country rather than the societal one. 90% of this country are white Christians or Atheists who all celebrate Christmas and Easter. They drink alcohol, play football, speak the same first language and feel like culturally they are on the same wavelength. Diversity disrupts the commonality that these people share and is a detriment to native communities. Challenge that statement with a reasonable argument.
Original post by napkinsquirrel
Because you are trying to focus on the economic effect that immigration has on this country rather than the societal one. 90% of this country are white Christians or Atheists who all celebrate Christmas and Easter. They drink alcohol, play football, speak the same first language and feel like culturally they are on the same wavelength. Diversity disrupts the commonality that these people share and is a detriment to native communities. Challenge that statement with a reasonable argument.


Firstly, where has the 90% figure come from?

Secondly: I have plenty of good friends who are not white, not Christian or Atheist, do not celebrate Christmas or Easter, do not drink, do not play football, and do not speak the same first language as me. I don't have a hard time getting along with them.
Original post by ilandboi
So I presume that since.. it stop(laughable) 200 years ago.. then the problem just went away? Are you that naive? The systematic demoralization of non ethnic white individuals in this country is down right horrible.
Do you think the masses that come to the uk come thinking they are going to be mean and disgusting to the 'natives' here?

I was grown to be very welcoming when people come to my home. Do you think, the UK people has been welcoming to immigrants? This is just ignorance at its best


I too am welcoming to guests that come to my house, I'll even tidy up and maybe put some food out, get some refreshments ready, and so on. Yet I am less welcoming to people who come to live in my home without my consent, and then go on to stay without paying rent.

Most of the ire towards immigrants is aimed at non-skilled immigrants, I've never heard someone complain about an immigrant with a PhD, but that's just me.

Anyway, I've sat in this thread long enough, I have exams in a week.
Original post by Grantland
Note that I said, some immigrants, as in, not all immigrants. Don't try and debase my argument by putting words in my mouth. Also can you give me an example of a modern western value that's based on skin colour? I'm genuinely curious as to what you're talking about.



Its funny how oblivious one can act, especially when they are 'defending' their values.. Just because people dont shout racial or biased slurs at minorities, doesnt mean that a system to suppress them isnt there.

The UK has a right to be concern about immigration, however, some of the reasons announced in here seems like they were developed by six year old or taken from a ignorant family member. I will say though, Im not surprised. many of you will never know what it is like to leave your own country, family, friends to try and find a future in someone elses country, in which you will never be looked at as 'equal'.

Ill leave this here: http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2015/04/03/race-criminal-background-and-employment/

do your own research.. then again.. if it doesnt affect you, whats the sense right?

There are many documentaries on how Britian and its western brothers, deal with immigrants. not hundreds of years ago, but just within the past decade.. You'd have to be blind or in denial not to see the attitude.

Again, Im sure that many other countries have issues too, but it seems to me some of you are throwing stones, while you live in a glass house
Reply 73
I think Western/'1st World Societies' are often quite selfish in the sense that in the past they were willing to conquer, colonise, steal valuable natural resources and leave other countries in a terrible state... but now that people from other cultures want to immigrate to benefit from it, like the Western ppl have for decades, they're seen as scum and told to go back to the country which is falling apart because nobody wants to share their wealth or attempt to rebuild the country. Ik this doesn't really answer your question but 1st world societies shouldn't reeeally have a right to shun people from countries which they've robbed.
Original post by Grantland
As a Canadian immigrant, I really haven't brought much in the way of diversity to the country, I'm a white male who speaks english as his first language. Any diversity that I brought to my sixth form was pretty much just novelty because I had an uncommon accent. But I side with OP in that I don't understand the benefit of diversity, as it is very much a dual-edged sword. For every level headed immigrant who wants to become "British" and do his bit whilst enjoying the country, you'll also get an immigrant who holds anti-western beliefs and wants nothing to do with "British" culture. If I were somehow the despot of Britain, I'd close the borders for a couple years before reopening them with a system that allows skilled migrants, and not Joe Blow from God-Knows-Where.

It's my belief that an immigrant should benefit the country, not the other way around. In the words of JFK, immigrants who want to be truly British should "not ask what your country can do for you, [but instead] ask what you can do for your country".

As a side note, why does no one push for non-white nations to be diverse? Japan for instance is a first world nation that is almost entirely homogeneous, I think it's Prime Minister even said something like "We're a one race country".

Edit:
How immature, you offer no argument whatsoever.


Spot on. The elephant in the room of course is that those people ferociously pushing further diversity and mass immigration, implicitly and often explicitly, have a deep rooted dislike of all that is traditional. Orwell wrote about this kind of pathological self-hatred amongst leftists as far back as the 1940s. You really do see it all the time, it is sheer Oikophobia. But once you get it into your head that there is something dreadfully immoral and even evil with traditional Western societies, you will not particularly care for rational arguments to the contrary any more than a raging Xenophobe can be convinced with rationality.

And then of course your brain starts working in very muddled up ways. When African migrants die trying to cross the Med, it is Europeans to blame. When muslim fanatics behead a soldier in London, well the real anger is of European Islamaphobia and so on and so on. The mindset is simply one that sees non-Europeans as always and everywhere the victims.

The vast majority of the people have no such beliefs either way, but the small minority which control the cultural and media apparatus, of course also backed by Big Business who profit from mass immigration, have been self ordained as the high priests of diversity I guess and are rather effective at getting the masses to conform to huge social changes they really dont want. Notice the recent election result with the 'Shy Conservative' phenomenon similarly. The vast majority of the public are essentially being frogmarched own the garden path through ad hoc accusations of racism, which they themselves have decided is the great taboo of the age. Were there a referendum on mass-immigration and multi-cultural-ism tomorrow, perhaps 20% would vote in favour.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by LaughingBro
All immigrant should return to their country of ethnicity! End of!

does that include all the white Europeans in south Africa, Australia, America, Canada, new Zealand ect or is ok for white people to completely white wash entire civilizations. only once there's a complete exodus of white people around the world back to European land can you make such a ridiculous statement
Original post by Zürich
Spot on. The elephant in the room of course is that those people ferociously pushing further diversity and mass immigration, implicitly and often explicitly, have a deep rooted dislike of all that is traditional. Orwell wrote about this kind of pathological self-hatred amongst leftists as far back as the 1940s. You really do see it all the time, it is sheer Oikophobia. But once you get it into your head that there is something dreadfully immoral and even evil with traditional Western societies, you will not particularly care for rational arguments to the contrary any more than a raging Xenophobe can be convinced with rationality.

And then of course your brain starts working in very muddled up ways. When African migrants die trying to cross the Med, it is Europeans to blame. When muslim fanatics behead a soldier in London, well the real anger is of European Islamaphobia and so on and so on. The mindset is simply one that sees non-Europeans as always and everywhere the victims.

The vast majority of the people have no such beliefs either way, but the small minority which control the cultural and media apparatus, of course also backed by Big Business who profit from mass immigration, have been self ordained as the high priests of diversity I guess and are rather effective at getting the masses to conform to huge social changes they really dont want.


So it's either you're with them or you're against them right? Pure garbage.

Typical shoe box mentality.
Original post by ilandboi
So it's either you're with them or you're against them right? Pure garbage.

Typical shoe box mentality.


It accurately describes the mindset of those pushing diversity I feel.

For all the talk of Xenophobia, Oikophobia seems to be something which is almost de rigeur amongst the chattering classes. The dichotomy between the elite in the media/cultural sphere and the man on the street is admitted even by leftist types themselves these days in the wake of the election.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/labour-left-miliband-hating-english
Omg why is this discussion taking place. We are all humans from different parts of the world. Why does where you come from matter. Wow someone prays, Wow someone dances with their bellies. What has the media done to all of you. We lost our humanity. We lost everything that makes us human...
Okay so this thread is 78 posts long and not one person has put forward a credible argument as to why diversity is a good thing and why I need to be more diverse but were quick enough to flip out about immigration; falsely deducing that I'm a massive xenophobe/racist/fascist in the process. I can only assume from this that either no such credible argument exists or proponents are too stupid to simply tell me why people need to be more accepting of different cultures in order to further societal integration. If you litter your argument with meaningless, baseless insults in order to further your argument then your opinion is not worthy of appraisal. If your sources are from tabloid journalism then you have taken minimal effort to substantiate your claims; you couldn't just link me to the sources the journalist used instead? You all seem to be pushing the opinion that virulent cultural oppression by the white man was the worst thing to happen in history but yet when white people in Britain don't like their culture slowly being eroded they're racists. I guarantee not a single one of you has ever experienced racial or cultural oppression to the levels you claim exist. You are not all slaves of whitey; your culture is not being held hostage. You all have computers, you all have the opportunity of education and free healthcare and pulling the slavery card or the imperialism card every time somebody calls you out on your hypocrisy is not acceptable any more. If you work, shop, live and pay taxes in Britain and complain about the whites having an advantage over you, just remember that you are reaping the benefits of slavery and imperialism just the same as we are.

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