The Bar and GDL

OP

[QUOTE=boffdude;56249787]You are telling me that with A*A*B you cannot get into a top law school? ^^

Oxbridge no
Lse no
Durham no
Bristol no
KCL no
QMUL no
UCL no
Warwick no
Nottingham no

Reply 3

boffdude

1

Original post by Brownclown

Oxbridge no
Lse no
Durham no
Bristol no
KCL no
QMUL no
UCL no
Warwick no
Nottingham no

Have you actually contacted the above or is this because you assume A*AA/AAA req means you cannot get in on A*A*B?

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 4

exlibris

Original post by Brownclown

Oxbridge no
Lse no
Durham no
Bristol no
KCL no
QMUL no
UCL no
Warwick no
Nottingham no

Long time since I did A-levels (weren't even A*s in my day...) but my sense is that you are being somewhat defeatist. A full three seconds on a well known search engine revealed that Bristol will take students with A*AB, and your list of 'top law schools' is hardly exhaustive.

Nonetheless, to address your original question: if you read another subject at university and then did the GDL, most sets of chambers would place very little weight on what your A-level grades were, if any. The keys then would be your degree and GDL results (1st/Distinction puts you in a strong position; 2.1/Commendation keeps you in the game). Solicitors' firms pay slightly more attention to A-levels, usually by means of an AAB (I think) filter that you'd still sail through - J S-P will be better informed on that if you're interested.

Reply 5

OP

[QUOTE=boffdude;56250541]Have you actually contacted the above or is this because you assume A*AA req means you cannot get in on A*A*B?

I highly doubt they would waive their entry requirements. They're so over subscribed and they don't accept resits - UCL durham lse Oxbridge don't.

Reply 6

boffdude

1

Original post by Brownclown

I highly doubt they would waive their entry requirements. They're so over subscribed and they don't accept resits - UCL durham lse Oxbridge don't.

I'm going to suggest you actually contact the relevant unis. Oxford at any rate will still consider you with those grades.

Reply 7

OP

Original post by boffdude

I'm going to suggest you actually contact the relevant unis. Oxford at any rate will still consider you with those grades.

I honestly find that Oxford would still consider me hard to believe. But I will contact the universities to see what they say

Reply 8

OP

Original post by exlibris

Long time since I did A-levels (weren't even A*s in my day...) but my sense is that you are being somewhat defeatist. A full three seconds on a well known search engine revealed that Bristol will take students with A*AB, and your list of 'top law schools' is hardly exhaustive.

Nonetheless, to address your original question: if you read another subject at university and then did the GDL, most sets of chambers would place very little weight on what your A-level grades were, if any. The keys then would be your degree and GDL results (1st/Distinction puts you in a strong position; 2.1/Commendation keeps you in the game). Solicitors' firms pay slightly more attention to A-levels, usually by means of an AAB (I think) filter that you'd still sail through - J S-P will be better informed on that if you're interested.

Please don't conflate realism with defeatism.

That degree still has to come from a reputable university though doesn't it? I'm struggling to find a course that I'm actually eligible to get onto at good university

Reply 9

Original post by Brownclown

Please don't conflate realism with defeatism.

That degree still has to come from a reputable university though doesn't it? I'm struggling to find a course that I'm actually eligible to get onto at good university

Chambers don't seem to have much of a preference for LLBs over GDLs (scroll to the bottom of the page):

http://www.indx.co.uk/pupilbase/?mode=stats&rtype=bptcgdl

But they do appear to have a preferred university ranking:

http://www.indx.co.uk/pupilbase/?mode=stats&rtype=inst

So, regardless of LLB or GDL route, you need to study at a high ranking university in order to maximise your chances. Gaining a first degree outside that area, but then taking a postgraduate course at a Russell Group university may help, but probably not by much. The best and most popular "improver" strategy is probably the BCL at Oxford.

Reply 10

OP

Original post by typonaut

Chambers don't seem to have much of a preference for LLBs over GDLs (scroll to the bottom of the page):

http://www.indx.co.uk/pupilbase/?mode=stats&rtype=bptcgdl

But they do appear to have a preferred university ranking:

http://www.indx.co.uk/pupilbase/?mode=stats&rtype=inst

So, regardless of LLB or GDL route, you need to study at a high ranking university in order to maximise your chances. Gaining a first degree outside that area, but then taking a postgraduate course at a Russell Group university may help, but probably not by much. The best and most popular "improver" strategy is probably the BCL at Oxford.

Thanks that list was v. Useful.

Does it matter what degree?

I could get onto something like accounting in some of the top Unis there e.g Manchester Nottingham Newcastle Birmingham QMUL

Then do a GDL after that

Reply 11

Original post by Brownclown

Thanks that list was v. Useful.

Does it matter what degree?

No, I don't think so. However, some areas of law might favour some academic areas, eg if you have a science degree that might help get an IP pupillage, or accountancy may help in banking or fraud... The important thing is to get into a high ranking university and to get the best degree classification that you can.

Reply 12

OP

[QUOTE=typonaut;56261153]No, I don't think so. However, some areas of law might favour some academic areas, eg if you have a science degree that might help get an IP pupillage, or accountancy may help in banking or fraud... The important thing is to get into a high ranking university and to get the best degree classification that you can.

Can i just get this 100% clear in head:

If I go to a high ranking, RG uni, get a first in any academic degree (say biomed for the sake of it), smash my GDL (with a distinction hopefully!), lots of extra curriculars e.g. Mooting, mini pupillages, I would be as competitive an applicant as my Oxbridge counterparts?

Side note: to do a masters your previous degree has to have had a decent amount of law related content so a science degree wouldn't help. Would the GDL be enough to get onto a masters programme?

Reply 13

OP

[QUOTE=J-SP;56261399]If you are not going to study law, do a degree you will enjoy not one that you assume will be prestigious.

To get that first, you are going to need to find a subject you adore and are good at.

But I agree with the defeatist points already made. I've seen plenty of candidates with "worse" grades than you get into most, if not all, of the law courses you have mentioned, as well as a whole load of other universities that have good reputations.

Posted from TSR Mobile

For law, what is classified as a "good" univeristy?

This list isn't exhaustive by thoughts would be: Oxbridge, imperial, LSE, UCL

Are other respectable ones QMUL, KCL, Manchester, Nottingham, Wawrick?

Where does Birmingham and Exeter rank?

Reply 14

Original post by Brownclown

Can i just get this 100% clear in head:

If I go to a high ranking, RG uni, get a first in any academic degree (say biomed for the sake of it), smash my GDL (with a distinction hopefully!), lots of extra curriculars e.g. Mooting, mini pupillages, I would be as competitive an applicant as my Oxbridge counterparts?

Side note: to do a masters your previous degree has to have had a decent amount of law related content so a science degree wouldn't help. Would the GDL be enough to get onto a masters programme?

As J-SP says, that's a lot of ifs.

There are a lot of alternatives. You could still get on an LLB - you need to confirm with the universities that they will not consider your A-level grades. You could do a degree with some law elements. You could do a senior status LLB/LLM in two years rather than a GDL in one year.

I wouldn't say that you'd end up in the same position as those who went to Oxbridge, because the stats seem to indicate that those two universities dominate the Bar, and every other institution is miles behind. But, you'd certainly be in a better position than most.

Reply 15

OP

[QUOTE=typonaut;56265833]As J-SP says, that's a lot of ifs.

There are a lot of alternatives. You could still get on an LLB - you need to confirm with the universities that they will not consider your A-level grades. You could do a degree with some law elements. You could do a senior status LLB/LLM in two years rather than a GDL in one year.

I wouldn't say that you'd end up in the same position as those who went to Oxbridge, because the stats seem to indicate that those two universities dominate the Bar, and every other institution is miles behind. But, you'd certainly be in a better position than most.

Hi, I had a look at the senior status degrees - the only issue I foresee is the funding because I won't be able to take out any student loans but otherwise they are something to consider.

Just wondering, is becoming a solicitor (in the magic circle) less/more competitive than securing a Pupillage?

Reply 16

OP

[QUOTE=J-SP;56271775]Technically less competitive but still competitive.

I am assuming you haven't got your results yet. Why not see what you get, try clearing or even reapply next year? If you heart is set on studying law, then tackle that goal first rather than trying to put pieces of a puzzle together that can be done much later down the line.

It won't matter what you degree you study, but the fact that you are thinking about accountancy or biomed as an alternative degree route makes me question whether you are thinking about this practically or whether you focus is too much on "prestige".

Posted from TSR Mobile

Yes and no. I'd be able to get into a more prestigious Biomed uni BUT biomed isn't a great degree in terms of graduate prospects unless you want to work in a lab for the rest of your life. The idea is that of law goes to pot, I have a degree to fall back on which will get me a Good job

Reply 17

OP

[QUOTE=J-SP;56274343]What do you want to study? What do you think you will enjoy studying and what do you think will play to strengths?

Posted from TSR Mobile

If I'm being completely honest with you, geography is by far my strongest subject - it's a subject I'm naturally good at and excel in. I also find human geography especially topics like world conflict and geopolitics pretty interesting - I'm much more likely to get a first in geography than in biomed/accounting

But geography brings up two issues: would I get into an AAA course or A*AA course with A*A*B? I'd need to check with universities but I'm not sure how lenient they are.

Career prospects - if law goes to pot, is geography a respected degree by employers?

Reply 18

Original post by Brownclown

If I'm being completely honest with you, geography is by far my strongest subject - it's a subject I'm naturally good at and excel in. I also find human geography especially topics like world conflict and geopolitics pretty interesting - I'm much more likely to get a first in geography than in biomed/accounting

But geography brings up two issues: would I get into an AAA course or A*AA course with A*A*B? I'd need to check with universities but I'm not sure how lenient they are.

Career prospects - if law goes to pot, is geography a respected degree by employers?

Most degree subjects, by their nature, do not have natural career progression paths: geography, history, English... So, what you need to consider is what does a degree say about you to potential employers: essentially it is a measure of how much you are willing to knuckle down and do the work required to get a good result. That is it - for the most part they are not going to be very interested in the specific knowledge you gained during your degree, they are much more interested in the skills you gained: time management, ability to digest complex subject matter, ability to write-up your findings...

Going into law is the same, for the most part chambers or solicitors firms are not going to care what you studied. The extra hurdle here is of course that you need some kind of law qualification - a QLD or a GDL. My view is that chambers prefer certain universities. There are (at least) two possible explanations for this: 1) they have an irrational bias, and using these institutions as benchmarks helps them whittle-down the number of applications they get to a manageable number (solicitors probably do this too, but also use A-levels to screen people out), 2) they have no bias, and it just so happens that the best candidates come from these universities (perhaps because they get the cream of the A-level crop too).

I don't know what the answer is, but it's clear enough that institutions do play a role.

Reply 19