The north isn't just Manchester!
What about Hull, Sunderland, Sheffield, Barnsley, Scunthorpe, Doncaster, Grimsby, Middlesbrough, Rotherham and even places in Cumbria? What about those of us who unfortunately are from one of these places?
I just cannot ignore how obsessed with Manchester this northern powerhouse concept is. The idea that investing in just the big cities of Manchester and Leeds will benefit the North as a whole (trickle down money to smaller regions) is absolutely crazy and has failed in the past and will fail now. The main losers imo in this whole thing is the North East, South Yorkshire and East Yorkshire.
All i can see this doing is pushing up rents in the Greater Manchester and Leeds areas and leaving everywhere outside of these areas (mainly the north east and South Yorkshire) to rot. Will these areas be able to cope with the demand? Are we just creating more Londons? I believe that the people in regions outside of the big 4 cities are being treat like second class citizens. If the government want to make Manchester and Leeds the economic capitals of the north then investment should be made to link smaller towns and regions so that people from these other regions can commute at an affordable price at frequent times.
Also if Manchester is to become the economic capital a link from South Yorkshire to Manchester is vital as the present links just cannot cope (rural roads that cross the Peaks that are often closed a lot in winter). Manchester just feels so far away from this part of the country due to the obstacle that is The Pennines.
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I just cannot ignore how obsessed with Manchester this northern powerhouse concept is. The idea that investing in just the big cities of Manchester and Leeds will benefit the North as a whole (trickle down money to smaller regions) is absolutely crazy and has failed in the past and will fail now. The main losers imo in this whole thing is the North East, South Yorkshire and East Yorkshire.
All i can see this doing is pushing up rents in the Greater Manchester and Leeds areas and leaving everywhere outside of these areas (mainly the north east and South Yorkshire) to rot. Will these areas be able to cope with the demand? Are we just creating more Londons? I believe that the people in regions outside of the big 4 cities are being treat like second class citizens. If the government want to make Manchester and Leeds the economic capitals of the north then investment should be made to link smaller towns and regions so that people from these other regions can commute at an affordable price at frequent times.
Also if Manchester is to become the economic capital a link from South Yorkshire to Manchester is vital as the present links just cannot cope (rural roads that cross the Peaks that are often closed a lot in winter). Manchester just feels so far away from this part of the country due to the obstacle that is The Pennines.
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(edited 8 years ago)
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Original post by datpiff
What about Hull, Sunderland, Sheffield, Barnsley, Scunthorpe, Doncaster, Grimsby, Middlesbrough, Rotherham and even places in Cumbria? What about those of us who unfortunately are from one of these places?
I just cannot ignore how obsessed with Manchester this northern powerhouse concept is. The idea that investing in just the big cities of Manchester and Leeds will benefit the North as a whole (trickle down money to smaller regions) is absolutely crazy and has failed in the past and will fail now. The main losers imo in this whole thing is the North East, South Yorkshire and East Yorkshire.
All i can see this doing is pushing up rents in the Greater Manchester and Leeds areas and leaving everywhere outside of these areas (mainly the north east and South Yorkshire) to rot. Will these areas be able to cope with the demand? Are we just creating more Londons? I believe that the people in regions outside of the big 4 cities are being treat like second class citizens. If the government want to make Manchester and Leeds the economic capitals of the north then investment should be made to link smaller towns and regions so that people from these other regions can commute at an affordable price at frequent times.
Also if Manchester is to become the economic capital a link from South Yorkshire to Manchester is vital as the present links just cannot cope (rural roads that cross the Peaks that are often closed a lot in winter). Manchester just feels so far away from this part of the country due to the obstacle that is The Pennines.
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I just cannot ignore how obsessed with Manchester this northern powerhouse concept is. The idea that investing in just the big cities of Manchester and Leeds will benefit the North as a whole (trickle down money to smaller regions) is absolutely crazy and has failed in the past and will fail now. The main losers imo in this whole thing is the North East, South Yorkshire and East Yorkshire.
All i can see this doing is pushing up rents in the Greater Manchester and Leeds areas and leaving everywhere outside of these areas (mainly the north east and South Yorkshire) to rot. Will these areas be able to cope with the demand? Are we just creating more Londons? I believe that the people in regions outside of the big 4 cities are being treat like second class citizens. If the government want to make Manchester and Leeds the economic capitals of the north then investment should be made to link smaller towns and regions so that people from these other regions can commute at an affordable price at frequent times.
Also if Manchester is to become the economic capital a link from South Yorkshire to Manchester is vital as the present links just cannot cope (rural roads that cross the Peaks that are often closed a lot in winter). Manchester just feels so far away from this part of the country due to the obstacle that is The Pennines.
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Investing in London has benefited the south-east as a whole. An awful lot of people living in the home counties commute into the city for work, and plenty of big companies have set up home in towns like Bracknell because they're close enough to London to take advantage of things like transport links but far enough out that rents aren't unreasonably high. It's no coincidence that so many young people from the rest of the country migrate south to find work.
If the transport links across the Pennines are improved, there's no reason why investing in Manchester shouldn't benefit the entire Yorkshire and Lancashire region in much the same way. The north-east might not see much improvement, but its time will come.
Original post by datpiff
and even places in Cumbria? What about those of us who unfortunately are from one of these places?
Pardon?
I'm lucky as I live along the West Coast Mainline, albeit quite far away from Manchester.
Look at it this way, any investment is better than none. Ideally I'd want HS3 in the North, linking Liverpool to Hull. Expansion of port facilities in Liverpool and Grimsby. Updating the road infrastructure between Northern hubs. But continued investment in Manchester will still have a positive economic knock on effects for the rest of the Northwest and South Yorkshire. The North East is in an awkward place, so far from the rest of the North. I've always said that the North East should work on closer economic integration with Scotland, and more infrastructure to connect the two. Yes the Tories plan is overall shoddy, but it is better than nothing.
Look at it this way, any investment is better than none. Ideally I'd want HS3 in the North, linking Liverpool to Hull. Expansion of port facilities in Liverpool and Grimsby. Updating the road infrastructure between Northern hubs. But continued investment in Manchester will still have a positive economic knock on effects for the rest of the Northwest and South Yorkshire. The North East is in an awkward place, so far from the rest of the North. I've always said that the North East should work on closer economic integration with Scotland, and more infrastructure to connect the two. Yes the Tories plan is overall shoddy, but it is better than nothing.
Manchester is a bit overhyped tbh. Went and thought it was ok, but the city itself is small. Outside of London Edinburgh and Glasgow are better competitors at being something different.
In fact Edinburgh is beautiful and different enough to rank in the world and compete with London. Manchester just doesn't do anything London can't.
In fact Edinburgh is beautiful and different enough to rank in the world and compete with London. Manchester just doesn't do anything London can't.
Original post by Swanbow
I'm lucky as I live along the West Coast Mainline, albeit quite far away from Manchester.
Look at it this way, any investment is better than none. Ideally I'd want HS3 in the North, linking Liverpool to Hull. Expansion of port facilities in Liverpool and Grimsby. Updating the road infrastructure between Northern hubs. But continued investment in Manchester will still have a positive economic knock on effects for the rest of the Northwest and South Yorkshire. The North East is in an awkward place, so far from the rest of the North. I've always said that the North East should work on closer economic integration with Scotland, and more infrastructure to connect the two. Yes the Tories plan is overall shoddy, but it is better than nothing.
Look at it this way, any investment is better than none. Ideally I'd want HS3 in the North, linking Liverpool to Hull. Expansion of port facilities in Liverpool and Grimsby. Updating the road infrastructure between Northern hubs. But continued investment in Manchester will still have a positive economic knock on effects for the rest of the Northwest and South Yorkshire. The North East is in an awkward place, so far from the rest of the North. I've always said that the North East should work on closer economic integration with Scotland, and more infrastructure to connect the two. Yes the Tories plan is overall shoddy, but it is better than nothing.
It always seems like the perspective is London centric, right from the start, even when they want to bring high speed rail to advance the north, it's making the linke quicker between Manc/Birmingham and London, with no onsideration for seepding up the routes between Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield and Leeds which given their proximity and the number of people using those routes combined, would make far more sense and counterbalance London more.
I agree re the North East btw, Newcastle is no distance to Edinburgh and the borders.
Original post by SaucissonSecCy
It always seems like the perspective is London centric, right from the start, even when they want to bring high speed rail to advance the north, it's making the linke quicker between Manc/Birmingham and London, with no onsideration for seepding up the routes between Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield and Leeds which given their proximity and the number of people using those routes combined, would make far more sense and counterbalance London more.
I agree re the North East btw, Newcastle is no distance to Edinburgh and the borders.
I agree re the North East btw, Newcastle is no distance to Edinburgh and the borders.
What i'd seriously have done first is look at building a better road link between Sheffield and Manchester but the geography of the area is a huge obstacle and environmental groups would provably be well against any development (as it would cross the Peak District national park)
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Original post by datpiff
What about Hull, Sunderland, Sheffield, Barnsley, Scunthorpe, Doncaster, Grimsby, Middlesbrough, Rotherham and even places in Cumbria? What about those of us who unfortunately are from one of these places?
I just cannot ignore how obsessed with Manchester this northern powerhouse concept is. The idea that investing in just the big cities of Manchester and Leeds will benefit the North as a whole (trickle down money to smaller regions) is absolutely crazy and has failed in the past and will fail now. The main losers imo in this whole thing is the North East, South Yorkshire and East Yorkshire.
All i can see this doing is pushing up rents in the Greater Manchester and Leeds areas and leaving everywhere outside of these areas (mainly the north east and South Yorkshire) to rot. Will these areas be able to cope with the demand? Are we just creating more Londons? I believe that the people in regions outside of the big 4 cities are being treat like second class citizens. If the government want to make Manchester and Leeds the economic capitals of the north then investment should be made to link smaller towns and regions so that people from these other regions can commute at an affordable price at frequent times.
Also if Manchester is to become the economic capital a link from South Yorkshire to Manchester is vital as the present links just cannot cope (rural roads that cross the Peaks that are often closed a lot in winter). Manchester just feels so far away from this part of the country due to the obstacle that is The Pennines.
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I just cannot ignore how obsessed with Manchester this northern powerhouse concept is. The idea that investing in just the big cities of Manchester and Leeds will benefit the North as a whole (trickle down money to smaller regions) is absolutely crazy and has failed in the past and will fail now. The main losers imo in this whole thing is the North East, South Yorkshire and East Yorkshire.
All i can see this doing is pushing up rents in the Greater Manchester and Leeds areas and leaving everywhere outside of these areas (mainly the north east and South Yorkshire) to rot. Will these areas be able to cope with the demand? Are we just creating more Londons? I believe that the people in regions outside of the big 4 cities are being treat like second class citizens. If the government want to make Manchester and Leeds the economic capitals of the north then investment should be made to link smaller towns and regions so that people from these other regions can commute at an affordable price at frequent times.
Also if Manchester is to become the economic capital a link from South Yorkshire to Manchester is vital as the present links just cannot cope (rural roads that cross the Peaks that are often closed a lot in winter). Manchester just feels so far away from this part of the country due to the obstacle that is The Pennines.
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True, but as a Manchester guy.
Also I like the small windy roads. They are fun to drive on
Original post by datpiff
What about Hull, Sunderland, Sheffield, Barnsley, Scunthorpe, Doncaster, Grimsby, Middlesbrough, Rotherham and even places in Cumbria? What about those of us who unfortunately are from one of these places?
I just cannot ignore how obsessed with Manchester this northern powerhouse concept is. The idea that investing in just the big cities of Manchester and Leeds will benefit the North as a whole (trickle down money to smaller regions) is absolutely crazy and has failed in the past and will fail now. The main losers imo in this whole thing is the North East, South Yorkshire and East Yorkshire.
All i can see this doing is pushing up rents in the Greater Manchester and Leeds areas and leaving everywhere outside of these areas (mainly the north east and South Yorkshire) to rot. Will these areas be able to cope with the demand? Are we just creating more Londons? I believe that the people in regions outside of the big 4 cities are being treat like second class citizens. If the government want to make Manchester and Leeds the economic capitals of the north then investment should be made to link smaller towns and regions so that people from these other regions can commute at an affordable price at frequent times.
Also if Manchester is to become the economic capital a link from South Yorkshire to Manchester is vital as the present links just cannot cope (rural roads that cross the Peaks that are often closed a lot in winter). Manchester just feels so far away from this part of the country due to the obstacle that is The Pennines.
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I just cannot ignore how obsessed with Manchester this northern powerhouse concept is. The idea that investing in just the big cities of Manchester and Leeds will benefit the North as a whole (trickle down money to smaller regions) is absolutely crazy and has failed in the past and will fail now. The main losers imo in this whole thing is the North East, South Yorkshire and East Yorkshire.
All i can see this doing is pushing up rents in the Greater Manchester and Leeds areas and leaving everywhere outside of these areas (mainly the north east and South Yorkshire) to rot. Will these areas be able to cope with the demand? Are we just creating more Londons? I believe that the people in regions outside of the big 4 cities are being treat like second class citizens. If the government want to make Manchester and Leeds the economic capitals of the north then investment should be made to link smaller towns and regions so that people from these other regions can commute at an affordable price at frequent times.
Also if Manchester is to become the economic capital a link from South Yorkshire to Manchester is vital as the present links just cannot cope (rural roads that cross the Peaks that are often closed a lot in winter). Manchester just feels so far away from this part of the country due to the obstacle that is The Pennines.
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I'm sorry, but when has it 'been tried and failed in the past'?
And how exactly are people who live in other parts of the North 'losers'?
Also I don't think you understand the economics of it. Creating a city with the economic vitality of London would be good for all concerned.
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
True, but as a Manchester guy.
Also I like the small windy roads. They are fun to drive on
Also I like the small windy roads. They are fun to drive on
The roads from Sheffield to Manchester are well beautiful. Great roads to drive and bike on, but they can be right death traps. I see sone right insane **** on these small roads on some trips
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Original post by Rinsed
I'm sorry, but when has it 'been tried and failed in the past'?
And how exactly are people who live in other parts of the North 'losers'?
Also I don't think you understand the economics of it. Creating a city with the economic vitality of London would be good for all concerned.
And how exactly are people who live in other parts of the North 'losers'?
Also I don't think you understand the economics of it. Creating a city with the economic vitality of London would be good for all concerned.
One thing is that the transport infrastructure to link all these locations needs to exist before that even happens. If the North West is to be the economic hub then the north east and Yorkshire (not just Leeds) needs to be linked better to Manchester. All that links the area is the M62 and a few ****ty countryside roads (deathtraps, but very beautiful)
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Original post by datpiff
The roads from Sheffield to Manchester are well beautiful. Great roads to drive and bike on, but they can be right death traps. I see sone right insane **** on these small roads on some trips
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Buxton road, or as it gets called round here, cat and fiddle road due to the pub at the top of it, is like a race track as it follows the contours
"is often classed as the most dangerous road in the UK"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_and_Fiddle_Road
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by SaucissonSecCy
Manchester is a bit overhyped tbh. Went and thought it was ok, but the city itself is small. Outside of London Edinburgh and Glasgow are better competitors at being something different.
In fact Edinburgh is beautiful and different enough to rank in the world and compete with London. Manchester just doesn't do anything London can't.
In fact Edinburgh is beautiful and different enough to rank in the world and compete with London. Manchester just doesn't do anything London can't.
This is true and I've been saying this for ages. People just fall for the hype.
80% of Manchester is complete **** and full of scallies.
Going there for the first time is like a massive comedown.
Original post by datpiff
One thing is that the transport infrastructure to link all these locations needs to exist before that even happens. If the North West is to be the economic hub then the north east and Yorkshire (not just Leeds) needs to be linked better to Manchester. All that links the area is the M62 and a few ****ty countryside roads (deathtraps, but very beautiful)
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But it's not just about Manchester and Leeds. Investment if being provided to improve infrastructure across the north. From Hull and Newcastle to Leeds, for example.
Currently the economy is dominated by London. Even if it isn't perfect, it's still far better for everyone in the north to have an economic 'powerhouse' closer to home.
Original post by datpiff
What about Hull, Sunderland, Sheffield, Barnsley, Scunthorpe, Doncaster, Grimsby, Middlesbrough, Rotherham and even places in Cumbria? What about those of us who unfortunately are from one of these places?
I just cannot ignore how obsessed with Manchester this northern powerhouse concept is. The idea that investing in just the big cities of Manchester and Leeds will benefit the North as a whole (trickle down money to smaller regions) is absolutely crazy and has failed in the past and will fail now. The main losers imo in this whole thing is the North East, South Yorkshire and East Yorkshire.
All i can see this doing is pushing up rents in the Greater Manchester and Leeds areas and leaving everywhere outside of these areas (mainly the north east and South Yorkshire) to rot. Will these areas be able to cope with the demand? Are we just creating more Londons? I believe that the people in regions outside of the big 4 cities are being treat like second class citizens. If the government want to make Manchester and Leeds the economic capitals of the north then investment should be made to link smaller towns and regions so that people from these other regions can commute at an affordable price at frequent times.
Also if Manchester is to become the economic capital a link from South Yorkshire to Manchester is vital as the present links just cannot cope (rural roads that cross the Peaks that are often closed a lot in winter). Manchester just feels so far away from this part of the country due to the obstacle that is The Pennines.
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I just cannot ignore how obsessed with Manchester this northern powerhouse concept is. The idea that investing in just the big cities of Manchester and Leeds will benefit the North as a whole (trickle down money to smaller regions) is absolutely crazy and has failed in the past and will fail now. The main losers imo in this whole thing is the North East, South Yorkshire and East Yorkshire.
All i can see this doing is pushing up rents in the Greater Manchester and Leeds areas and leaving everywhere outside of these areas (mainly the north east and South Yorkshire) to rot. Will these areas be able to cope with the demand? Are we just creating more Londons? I believe that the people in regions outside of the big 4 cities are being treat like second class citizens. If the government want to make Manchester and Leeds the economic capitals of the north then investment should be made to link smaller towns and regions so that people from these other regions can commute at an affordable price at frequent times.
Also if Manchester is to become the economic capital a link from South Yorkshire to Manchester is vital as the present links just cannot cope (rural roads that cross the Peaks that are often closed a lot in winter). Manchester just feels so far away from this part of the country due to the obstacle that is The Pennines.
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Unfortunately for yourself you are correct but that's by design, we are indeed replicating London (Greater Manchester and West Yorkshire have a combined population exceeding 5 million so there's simply more to gain by throwing money at it). But as somebody in Leeds i'm all for it naturally, the last few governments put the definition of the north at the Watford Gap so i'm thrilled at the Tories.
Bear in mind that HS2+HS3 if connected could provide Sheffield-Leeds-Manchester journey times under 50 minutes.
One also has to think of the politics. Your small towns are worth about 1 seat each, Leeds and Manchester have ~20. If the Tories can turn the outer suburbs from traditional red to blue then for them it's worth it.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Wilfred Little
This is true and I've been saying this for ages. People just fall for the hype.
80% of Manchester is complete **** and full of scallies.
Going there for the first time is like a massive comedown.
80% of Manchester is complete **** and full of scallies.
Going there for the first time is like a massive comedown.
i've lived in Manchester and it's just a huge disappointment. Manchester is just a city with too much hype. It isn't even the best looking city. It's ugly, Unlike Liverpool, which has lots of things to see in it i cant think of a reason to visit Manchester except for shopping and a night out. It's just an area where people live or go to uni. I'd prefer to live in Glasgow than Manchester. It's friendlier, much less pretentious, and the nightlife is much more fun, plus its not too far from Edinburgh.
It annoys me that Glasgow (everyone tried to tell me not to visit because of knife crime) has such a bad rep when Manchester is just as bad (if not way worse)
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(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
Buxton road, or as it gets called round here, cat and fiddle road due to the pub at the top of it, is like a race track as it follows the contours
"is often classed as the most dangerous road in the UK"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_and_Fiddle_Road
"is often classed as the most dangerous road in the UK"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_and_Fiddle_Road
i thought the Snake Pass was the most dangerous road in the UK
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Original post by datpiff
Dems fighting words
Original post by datpiff
What i'd seriously have done first is look at building a better road link between Sheffield and Manchester but the geography of the area is a huge obstacle and environmental groups would provably be well against any development (as it would cross the Peak District national park)
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Ah yes, I love it there. You can't **** with that.
Nobody's even mentioned Manchester's amazing music scene! That is what Manchester has that London can never beat... as a musician in Manchester, I can't fault it. I'm so proud to be from Manchester. I agree that Yorkshire should have more investments because it's so beautiful.... those moors, though....! Manchester is overhyped a little, but, it has SO many unseen virtues!
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