Courts 'should assume women can't consent to sex when drunk'

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More ridiculous pandering to feminists and creating rules which go against criminal law principles - the law on sexual offences really needs to be fixed

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Reply 21

Aj12

Original post by mattcar904

Really its so simple is it? Telling young people, don't go out and have a drink and have sex. Alcohol effects people different day to day, one can not just give numbers as to when a woman was drunk and automatically find the man guilty due to a blood test against a set number. This law they pushing is so sexist and people are trying to rationalise it.

Well firstly lets understand what is being said here. There has been no change in the law, this is merely a report making recommendations, as of yet nothing has changed. The article even has a case that says how the law should currently be interpreted.

"In 2007, the Court of Appeal ruled that a person may be capable of consenting even if drunk.
The case involved software engineer Benjamin Bree, 25, whose conviction for raping a student after a night of heavy drinking was quashed on appeal.
Delivering the ruling, Lord Judge said that consent could be given even after ‘heavy alcohol consumption’. "

I doubt this law will get anywhere since it would lead to some dodgy cases and miscarriages of justice. But at the same time I think it would be good advice for people to drink less to avoid these situations in the first place. It is still easy for someone to get drunk and claim rape, and it is easier for a drunk person to end up in situations where rape may be more likely. Whats the common theme? Heavy levels of alcohol, avoid that and you can help avoid some nasty situations for men and women.

Reply 22

Good bloke

Original post by mattcar904

you are simple minded.

That is the second time (in two responses) that you have insulted me instead of arguing against what I said and explaining your reasoning. Are you incapable of having a reasonable discussion without making personal insults?

Reply 23

TurboCretin

Original post by Good bloke

Maybe the real effect would be to discourage excessive drinking on the part of both males and females who want to end up having sex later in the evening. Boys won't want to be vulnerable to claims of rape and girls won't want to put boys off having sex with them through having such fears.

In fact, this could be the single most effective way of reducing binge drinking, antisocial behaviour, Saturday night fights, rape, and unwanted babies - and would cost nothing.

Good in theory, though in practice I imagine (from the perspective of a club-goer) it's quite difficult to tell a particular person's blood alcohol level with any accuracy just from observation.

And it would cost money - fewer drinks sold in clubs means less tax for the government, as would lighter pre-drinking. Although what the balance of that would be against the burden alleviated from the NHS is difficult to calculate.

Reply 24

Good bloke

Original post by TurboCretin

fewer drinks sold in clubs means less tax for the government, as would lighter pre-drinking. Although what the balance of that would be against the burden alleviated from the NHS is difficult to calculate.

Obviously, duty and VAT would be lost from drinks no longer sold. However, the people concerned would find other ways to spend money and entertain themselves that feed the exchequer - restaurants, bowling alleys, soft drinks, cinemas, theatres. And the NHS and policing budgets would save a great deal.

The NHS was reported to be spending £2.7 billion on treating the effects of binge drinking in 2010, and the total cost taking other factors into account is currently reported to be nearer £5 billion. That is over £80 a year for every man, woman and child in the UK. Astounding! The average citizen spends over £1.60 cleaning up the effects of excess alcohol consumption every week. Who wouldn't applaud the removal or reduction of that cost?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cost-of-binge-drinking-doubles-for-the-nhs-191866

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32126518

The total tax revenue from alcohol duty on all alcohol sales is only £20 billion a year so the gains could far outweigh the costs.

it's quite difficult to tell a particular person's blood alcohol level with any accuracy just from observation.

They could sell breathalysers in clubs, thus replacing some of the lost duty revenue. One would assume that the "automatic assumption of rape threshold" would be set somewhat higher than the driving threshold.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 25

Richpeasant

Original post by Anemone4Life

have you ever been too drunk??? you just dont remember stuff even if you were fully awake at the time

Iv'e been admitted to hospital for drinking a large quantity of alcohol. In total i drank a litre of jack murphies straight, 6 koppabergs, 4 shots of vodka, 3 of tequila and 3 sour shots and also 4 cans of fosters...After being unconscious i remember everything from the time i fell to the floor then obviously going 'unconscious' then i remember waking up, baring in mind i was still drunk when waking up. Don't recommend drink such large quantities in such a sort space of time, was on a drip for 7 hours...but back to my statement, i remembered everything until i was 'unconcious' so, maybe it's just me but i never not know what i'm doing doing.

Reply 26

anarchism101

The crucial part, which inevitably most comments on this thread have selectively overlooked, is:

"In practice, this would mean imposing an alcohol limit above which women would be considered incapable of consenting."

What this proposal actually is is to codify an already established principle and set it as a reference point to judge intoxication rather than the more ad hoc approach that currently prevails.

Personally I don't think it's a good idea. I can forsee huge practical problems (what happens if the girl waits a couple of days to report the rape, by which time the alcohol has virtually all left her blood?), plus it marginalises any other potential factors, on both sides of the cut-off point.

Reply 27

JG1233

As somebody has already said this was just a suggestion from a report, like said made by a radical feminist.

Not like its actually going to happen, as pretty much everyone has already pointed out its ridiculous.

Reply 28

ChaoticButterfly

Original post by Richpeasant

How can anyone be that stupid ?

Reply 29

Richpeasant

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

How can anyone be that stupid ?

Believe it or not i was completely fine, then i went outside for some fresh air, went to sit on a bench and just kind of collapse..but the point was to state though iv'e been high intoxicated, i still knew what was going on.
EDIT: not to justify it, but it was a new years eve party.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 30

mattcar904

Original post by spurs9393

This is effectively saying the defendant is guilty until proven innocent Posted from TSR Mobile

Yes, special treatment for women.

Reply 31

zippity.doodah

this is horse****. it is the woman's responsibility to moderate her alcohol intake if she doesn't want a blatant mind-altering substance to change her attitude towards sex. if she consents at the time and happens to be drunk, that is still consent. she is an adult who has chosen to potentially alter her frame of mind/judgement. sex isn't going to kill you, too.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 32

Wade-

Original post by zippity.doodah

Unfortunately the way s.74 is interpreted by the courts allows convictions where the 'victim' is too drunk

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Reply 33

swagyolo420

Original post by Wade-

Unfortunately the way s.74 is interpreted by the courts allows convictions where the 'victim' is too drunk

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Swear to god tho, voluntary intoxication is like no defence to anything but then u go and consent to drunken sex and suddenly you can claim rape. I call no fair

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Reply 34

swagyolo420

I was writing about the homocide act and im rlly tired and i wrote homo act by accident and yeah it made me laugh

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Reply 35

Dark Elixir

OK then I guess I have been sexually assaulted by women when I am drunk.
See? The logic is stupid and is only being considered because of the anti-male culture in which we are living in.

Reply 36

joey11223

So does this apply to men too though? I appreciate a women cannot rape a man in the eyes of the law, and there seems to be a dual mistaken believe amongst many women (and in fairness some men for the second point) that A) An erection cannot occur when a man is drunk and B) A man cannot get an involuntary erection, but if I was very drunk and say a girl I had no interest in forced herself into my pants and gave me a BJ...is she sexually assaulting me, or we saying a man can give consent when drunk (lets say I don't re-call and she says I was into it) but a woman can't?

Seems a bit insulting to woman if this is how it is, we're assuming a woman becomes totally irrational when drunk, but a man still has the means to consent to things?

Reply 37

username521617

Why only women? Why can men still consent to sex while drunk? What sexist Horse***t.

People who try and push these laws seem to think that women are victimized children with no responsibility and that men are a bunch of predators that must always take the blame for acts of drunken coitus with severe legal consequences. Equal rights; equal responsibility; equal powers of consent - this is how it should work.

If you consented to sex, then you consented to sex. If you're too drunk to make smart decisions, then that's on you. Unless somebody actually forces you into sex or threatens you into it, then you weren't raped. Imagine having what seems to be consensual, drunken sex with somebody and then being accused of rape the next day because 'they were too drunk to really mean it.' Surprise! You're a rapist now!

So perhaps I'll go back to a bar, demand my money back and say they robbed me because 'I was too drunk to consent to buying.'

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 38

Jebedee

This is why I'd rather stay celibate for any amount of time I stay in the UK. Not worth ruining one's life over sub-standard holes.

Reply 39

caravaggio2

Seriously, is it beyond the wit of reporters to ask theses questions when these recommendations are handed out.
""Does this apply to both sexes and can the woman be assumed to have commited sexual assault if the man has been drinking alcohol?"