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Are people who teach English abroad LOSERS?

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Original post by Isambard Kingdom Brunel

Dubai and Abu Dhabi are amazing for teaching English - but Saudi is even better!

If you can get a job in Saudi Arabic teaching employees of Aramco then you can save £200k over a 3 year period. I know somebody who did this. He lived on a second wage (private tutoring), and all his accommodation was free (albeit in an expat compound).

If you work for 5 or 6 years in these countries teaching English, you would have saved up enough cash when you come back to the UK to BUY A HOUSE OUTRIGHT, no renting or mortgages lol.

I just don't know how anyone can find these people to be "losers"

That is because the middle East enforces standards. They require qualifications and work experience. The ESL losers we're talking about are the ones who have no qualifications who go out to 3rd world countries and con the local people that they are brilliant teachers. When they are no such thing.

Reply 61

Justpin

Original post by whorace

Not compared to China which doesn't require a degree for foreign nationals. Actually China might do, but there's plenty of other countries that outrank us that don't.

Let the irony sink in there a moment.

Actually China has had a TEFLPOCALYPSE recently. They have ALWAYS required an undergraduate degree + 2 years experience. The difference is it is now being strongly enforced.

In December 2014 there was a massive massive crackdown and Hong Kong suddenly had 100s of white people homeless on the beaches as they had been working illegally and or with bogus degree certs.

Reply 62

Justpin

Original post by jamestg

Hmm...

While there are some who you talk about do that, I don't think it's the majority... for quite a few people it's to have a break from UK teaching or to gain experience before they have a proper teaching role. For others it might simply be a break before they go into employment or the job they wanted isn't in demand.

I have 3 family members who taught English abroad and they all had degrees in an MFL, a master's in that MFL and then a PGCE. After coming back from teaching English abroad one carried on working as a French teacher, another became a translator and the other now works at a private school doing TEFL in England. So it's actually pretty offensive to me saying they're losers.

Re-read your response. Your family members are not what are called flip floppers. Me white me teach English types which Asia is infested with.

Reply 63

Justpin

Original post by James2015

I suppose it's people who have worked their arse off getting an English degree/PGCE and then someone swoops in doing a TEFL course. Then earns more money, has no debt and travels abroad accommodation paid. I imagine they are a bit bitter and it's them who is calling people who are doing TEFL losers. Personally i think it sounds like a really good opportunity

Not really. Go on bikechatforums.com and look up a user called Visitor Q (formerly Bonny and Bonny ricardo) search 'TEFL'. He was and is an unemployed loser. No degree no qualifications and he went to China on a bogus degree.

You will find posts where he decries idiot teachers like myself with PGCE and MEd because all those idiots get paid the same as him in China. What happened to him? He stood still from 2006-2014 till his deportation date. While I'm making £35/h teaching in the UK. He doesn't really talk about it any more because he is completely unemployable. He saved no money has all his student loan outstanding and his CV is completely empty.

If you decide to go the unqualified happy girraffe English school route you will burn your future completely.

Reply 64

2071067

Original post by Isambard Kingdom Brunel

I thought this might be a good career for me, rather than doing unsatisfying stuff, but it seems a lot of people think TEFL (teach English as a foreign language) teachers are losers.

How can having a degree (often in education) and teaching kids in a foreign country make you a loser? The money is great too in most countries. Free accommodation, free utility bills, and still at least £1000 month disposable income.

That's more than the average graduate gets these days.

I actually heard about this. I think it's because there's a view that they are doing it because they couldn't get a job in their own country, are trying to escape their own life or is some fantasist weeb who wants to teach English in the Japanese Emperors court while wearing a kimono. Haters gonna hate I say.

Reply 65

jamestg

Original post by Justpin

Re-read your response. Your family members are not what are called flip floppers. Me white me teach English types which Asia is infested with.

I'm sorry?

Reply 66

Justpin

Original post by jamestg

I'm sorry?

Flip floppers is a pejorative term for a certain kind of ESOL teacher. Tim Bu Dong is another pejorative term (it means I don't understand!).

They are the worst kind of ESOL teacher. No qualifications, limited if any teaching experience. They generally don't care about any student learning outcomes and see it merely as a way to gain (unwarranted status) barely doing a job while getting paid more than the locals.

All of the major Asian countries had in the past lax quality assurance of individuals who went out to teach. Therefore to get a English teaching job in such countries the only qualification needed was to be white (there is a vice article about this). Even the passport did not matter so Russians, Italians etc could go and pretend to be teachers. The people there simply did not know better and could not spot them.

Then bad things happened which made them tighten up the laws. S Korea for instance had Christopher Paul Neil the swirly face paedophile. So they tightened up the laws considerably and tightened up the checking. S Korea got rid of many of their crap pretend teachers.

As each country tightens up the laws they move to another country with a low human development index.

In other words your family members due to the fact they have qualifications and probably care about their teaching are not in this group of flip floppers. The flip floppers are generally loathed by the professional teachers because it makes them guilty by association. Oh your only qualification is that you have a white face. Duncan for instance teaches for the NHS. He has a PGCE he went to a Chinese university (a real one not a degree mill) and is finishing his Phd well was earlier this year. He too was tarred with the loser described above.

Reply 67

Justpin

Original post by Plutonian

That's because there are MANY who fit this description. Far more than do not.

Go look at reddit for instance. If you look through 2-3 years ago every other post on r/tefl was. I have no degree I'm going to get a fake degree and teach in China.

Hell recently in the SCMP this dick:

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/education-community/article/1807926/half-hearted-massage-row-gets-english-teacher?page=all

He was teaching on a tourist visa (illegally). He had no degree or teaching qualifications and he decided to go and be a sexpat and get a handjob at a Chinese massage place and decided not to pay. Yet somehow he makes out he is the victim?

Why exactly would China want such an individual in their country?

Now is this a fine upstanding gentleman? Or what you would describe as a loser?

Reply 68

Riddle kicks

OP is an imbecile.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 69

Isambard Kingdom Brunel

Original post by Justpin

snip

I don't know what your agenda is in this thread tbh. You just come across as bitter.

I have an English degree and a TEFL certificate but as I am just starting out, of course I have no teaching experience. Does that make me a loser? If it does, then I don't understand the whole point of the TEFL jobs, hence my OP asking the question.

Maybe it's better to continue applying for jobs in Tesco, idk.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 70

Justpin

Original post by Isambard Kingdom Brunel

I don't know what your agenda is in this thread tbh. You just come across as bitter.

Some disclosure. I'm Chinese but UK born. I have a PGCE, an MEd, CELTA and I'm part way through my DELTA. I consistently score outstanding on my OFSTED inspections. I train teachers as a side job. I had an observation on Monday.

What pisses me off is the sociopathic attitude displayed by many individuals who go and use TEFL not because they care about teaching or are passionate about it. Instead they use it to fund their travels and generally consider travel, getting drunk etc above their job as a teacher. Those who do not improve themselves and go into a bubble mentality.

This is combined with the fact that young children which is the likely demographic you will teach are impressionable and according to Chomsky and Krashen there is a small window of opportunity for an individual to become native like in speaking ability. I can speak various flavours of Chinese due to excellent exposure in my youth. I can speak read and write to a level whereby I am indistinguishable from a person raised in China. The only weaknesses I have is my vocabulary is old fashioned and I do not know the upto date current slang.

A whole load of people hold an attitude of I can teach them badly what do I care. It's just Chinese people. I get paid loads I'm white I'm king in China. They do not consider that parents will save hard to put their children through such schools and be sold a pup from incapable uncaring teachers or even nasty ones. For instance Richard who I mentioned above. He taught Chinese people in a village that racist slurs were completely acceptable. You think this is a good thing?

I don't like the sociopathic attitudes displayed.

Original post by Isambard Kingdom Brunel

I have an English degree and a TEFL certificate but as I am just starting out, of course I have no teaching experience. Does that make me a loser?

I don't know.

What determines if you are a loser is your attitude and general goals.

Qualifications are not the super benchmark which many think they are. Though they are required for the visa for many countries. I would rather take a passionate teacher with few qualifications than a teacher who is qualified and doesn't have their heart in it. As above there are many many bad people in the world with the previously low barriers would exploit the situation like Richard. If you are one of those who considers the learning outcomes of his/her students don't matter then you have no place in the classroom.

There is a reason the LBH stereotype exists from Asia. People who go and become fake English teachers. They don't give a crap about their teaching and spend years and years not improving. Richard as above happily claimed not to know a jot about grammar and if he didn't know says he will lie to them and teach them the wrong thing. After all he is supposed to be the expert.

China however has a trap. Many great teachers go out there and become disillusioned and fall into the don't care mentality. Similar things happen in the UK with teachers that don't give a damn (I had some when I went to secondary school) and are waiting for their pensions.

Original post by Isambard Kingdom Brunel

If it does, then I don't understand the whole point of the TEFL jobs, hence my OP asking the question.

Maybe it's better to continue applying for jobs in Tesco, idk.

As I said it depends entirely on the above. If you go into teaching. If you care about the learning outcomes if you actually put effort into your lessons. If you try and improve and impress knowledge onto others and you act professionally. Then you are a teacher.

If you are like Richard then you are a loser. When/IF you go to Asia you will spot many of them. They always have some sort of big thing coming up which never happens. Richard himself I'm just doing this until my business picks up. He said that right up until he was deported.

Finally the teachers in the Middle East are NOT losers why?

The Mid East has pretty high standards and enforces them rigidly. Degrees are checked, DBS checks are required as is provable work experience as well as health checks. Therefore they only take experienced and qualified teachers in their ESOL programmes which filters out a lot of the bad people.

Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, S Korea all started doing this. China has only recently started to enforce the rules properly.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 71

voiceofreason234

I can certainly see why people think the average TEFL'er is a loser. Most are, if 'being a loser' means 'could not secure a first-rate job back in ones home country'.

If that's the definition of loser, then I'm a 'loser' too.

But the 2500 quid I bank each month, the easy sex with Chinese girls, and having an employer provided private apartment while most of my uni friends are still living in shared accom more than makes up for it. You can keep your 9-5 'respectable' office job back home. Plus, in most 'first-rate' occupations in the UK, it's rarely 9-5, more like 9-6 at least, often 9-7. What kind of a ****ing life is that? My job is a piece of cake, there's few expectations besides being white. You can literally play movies and sing songs most of the time in classes, and providing you can string together a decent schedule of hours you'll be saving more money than any reasonable graduate occupation back home. Taxes and accommodation costs will rape you in the UK, you don't have that problem in China.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 72

Justpin

Original post by voiceofreason234

You can keep your 9-5 'respectable' office job back home. Plus, in most 'first-rate' occupations in the UK, it's rarely 9-5, more like 9-6 at least, often 9-7. What kind of a ****ing life is that? My job is a piece of cake, there's few expectations besides being white. You can literally play movies and sing songs most of the time in classes, and providing you can string together a decent schedule of hours you'll be saving more money than any reasonable graduate occupation back home. Taxes and accommodation costs will rape you in the UK, you don't have that problem in China.

See this is the type of teacher which is considered a loser. The funny thing is he thinks he's being smart when really he is burning his future as teaching English is worthless as work experience.

Those friends he is lording over they are building careers gaining valuable work experience and building contacts.

When he comes back and that is a WHEN not IF as China has started to process of tightening up regulations and increase standards. He will be utterly unemployable as new people will have graduated and gained work experience.

But hey he can put on his CV I'm white! I was a glorified baby sitter! Will definitely give him a massive upper hand when starting a real career!

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 73

Himeros

No I don't think so?
It seems like quite a respectable career if you take it seriously - you can do a lot of good from it.

Reply 74

whorace

Original post by Justpin

You seem very bitter and biased tbh, not saying your not making good points but id like someone on the other side to present an argument before i judge

Reply 75

Justpin

Original post by whorace

You seem very bitter and biased tbh, not saying your not making good points but id like someone on the other side to present an argument before i judge

If you want more then have a look at

www.reddit.com/r/tefl

and

www.reddit.com/r/China

There is a lot of dislike of the English teacher type with numerous justifications.

Is what I am saying all that controversial?

I'm saying be a good teacher care about your job and your students. They deserve a good teacher and expect and pay for such a service. Many do not live up to this expectation like the person above who talks about how easy 'teaching' is. Real teaching isn't easy. There is a reason why a full time teaching job is no more than 20 hours a week.

Ultimately the choice is yours. I've just presented one side of the argument and the pitfalls which many neglect to mention. For instance on here there is a mixing of the Mid East and Asia. The two job markets are incomparable.

There are also two traps.

One is the bubble trap.

The other is the TEFL trap.

The TEFL trap catches many in its toothy maw all the time. People move and have a relatively comfortable life an easy job and they stop progressing. They stop moving forward and improving (learning Chinese is not improving or progressing) which is career suicide. As eventually they have to leave for one reason or another. It may well be something out of their control and boom unemployable.

The bubble trap is a sociological phenomenon. Whereby when you are far from home and your social group there is a social disconnect and thus a feeling of contempt against the local people or superiority. It is easy to feel this way because they are paid a lot more than local people. The bubble eventually gets popped though.

But hey I'm just a random person what do I know?

Reply 76

Euro-Islam

I wouldn't call someone who had gone to make a new career for themselves overseas a 'Loser'. I'd say its quite a ballsy thing to do.

Reply 77

driftawaay

Uh no, it usually pays well, the job isn't stressful and they get to travel the world. Better than sitting in an office in central London and being just another slave, working until 7PM and wasting your life as a respectable graduate for 25K

Reply 78

El Salvador

Original post by Isambard Kingdom Brunel

Because usually it's people who are unqualified (some don't have a degree, most don't have a relevant degree from a top institution), who don't get free accommodation and utility bills, and those who just do that because they couldn't find a job in the UK.

What you're describing is what it's like teaching in an international school, which is very different from being hired by a language school who hires people mostly due to their being white.