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D&D Religion's "Ask an Atheist/Agnostic" Thread

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Original post by Good bloke
Not this again? Why would anyone believe in any mythical being for which there is no credible evidence. Why don't you believe in the tooth fairy? It has just as much evidence to support its existence as any god.


Ahh so it's a matter of evidence is it? Now my next question... What kind of evidence? Or are we to assume that the only kind of evidence is scientific evidence for that which can be quantified or reasoned?


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Original post by Micccol
Or are we to assume that the only kind of evidence is scientific evidence for that which can be quantified or reasoned?


You write that with a sneer as if scientific evidence were outrageous and unnecessary. What other kind of evidence would not be self-serving, dependent on scriptures and so-called miracles (which are easily falsified) and untrustworthy? By scientific, I assume you include all the usual criteria like empirical, repeatable, capable of independent and expert review (and passing that review) etc.
Original post by Good bloke
You write that with a sneer as if scientific evidence were outrageous and unnecessary. What other kind of evidence would not be self-serving, dependent on scriptures and so-called miracles (which are easily falsified) and untrustworthy? By scientific, I assume you include all the usual criteria like empirical, repeatable, capable of independent and expert review (and passing that review) etc.


I do write that with a sneer. Cause it's so funny to me how people think that modern science has anything to say on the matter. The question of God is one for Philosophy and then theology...

But by all means, rest content and comfortable with your scientific views and just wait for them to change. Meanwhile good luck answering everything with a discipline that claims to know its object of study, before it even begins to investigate it.


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Original post by Micccol
The question of God is one for Philosophy and then theology...


Whereas science is concerned solely with reality, not what people think or can be brought to believe (except for neurology and psychology, of course). :rolleyes:
Original post by Good bloke
Whereas science is concerned solely with reality, not what people think or can be brought to believe (except for neurology and psychology, of course). :rolleyes:


Oh so now something is only real of it passes the customs line of science? Please tell me where I can observe and quantify some justice walking around...

This is the whole irony of this century. Modern science is born from Descartes and Galileo or even before that in the Italian Renaissance. Yet what Descartes did was bring reality into thought and the mind, not allow it to continue externally.

Revisit some history my friend and ask yourself this. Where did the reality of science come from if no one ever thought of it?


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Original post by Micccol
So I'm curious, what's the basis for your disbelief in a 'God'?


That is a very complex question. Now religion is a lot more easier to argue against. A great problem of religions are the conflicting claims made by each religion. Each religion has numerous miraculous claims and many followers of these religions speak with absolute certainty about the truthfulness of their religions.


The question of whether a God exists or not is a lot more complex, nuanced and subjective. The basis of my disbelief is a long process of pondering upon the question of God and that led to the current position of assuming that whilst it is possible that a God could exist, I think it improbable. But it is not a closed issue and is a question that I still ponder upon.
Original post by Micccol
Oh so now something is only real of it passes the customs line of science? Please tell me where I can observe and quantify some justice walking around...

This is the whole irony of this century. Modern science is born from Descartes and Galileo or even before that in the Italian Renaissance. Yet what Descartes did was bring reality into thought and the mind, not allow it to continue externally.

Revisit some history my friend and ask yourself this. Where did the reality of science come from if no one ever thought of it?


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By reality I meant the physical real, as you are fully aware. Philosophy and theology do not, and can never, allow us to determine whether deities might exist.
Original post by The Epicurean
That is a very complex question. Now religion is a lot more easier to argue against. A great problem of religions are the conflicting claims made by each religion. Each religion has numerous miraculous claims and many followers of these religions speak with absolute certainty about the truthfulness of their religions.


The question of whether a God exists or not is a lot more complex, nuanced and subjective. The basis of my disbelief is a long process of pondering upon the question of God and that led to the current position of assuming that whilst it is possible that a God could exist, I think it improbable. But it is not a closed issue and is a question that I still ponder upon.


Who have you read? In this process of pondering?


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Original post by Micccol
Who have you read? In this process of pondering?


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I'm not gonna claim to be the most well read person....But, David Hume, Plato (specifically his works on Socrates), Epicurus (books on teachings of his and whatnot), Lucretius (same as before), Bertrand Russell, Christopher Hitchens, John Hick, J L Mackie, Alain de Botton, Daniel Dennett, Bruce Metzger, Daniel Wallace, Karen Armstrong, Thomas Hobbes, Peter Kropotkin. And those are the only ones that spring to mind at the moment that I have read and have had some influence on my ponderings.


What are your beliefs exactly?
Original post by Tawheed
A quick comment with regards to 'groups' in Islam.

Shia's seem to be thrown into the same bracket as Quranists, and other very minority groups.


I made a post recently that did group Shia's with other minority groups within Islam, so thought I ought to respond. I couldn't think where a response would be permitted so posted it here.

It would be correct to say that Shia's do tend to be a minority group. For example, how many active Shia's are there in the TSR I-soc? It is the minority status that puts Quranists and Shia's in the same group (in my opinion).

Original post by Tawheed
I would argue the two versions of Islam are Shia and Sunni, both groups affirming there is no God but Allah, and Muhammed pbuh is his final messenger and we need to take from the Quran AND the sunnah.


I am sure that there are some out there that will accuse Shia's of Bidah. Also, the Shahadah makes no mention of following the Quran and Sunnah explicitly. So anybody who believes that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger is still technically affirming the Shahadah.


Original post by Tawheed
Other groups shia's are often bracketed with deny the need to take the sunnah, deny the finality of the prophethood, etc and are splinter groups within the two major traditions in Islam.

Indeed, shia's are a sizable minority, and the proportions are much closer in the middle-east as a pose to worldwide. A tip to atheists would be, when debating, you need to consider that Islam has two compelling schools of thought. By refuting and 'debunking' one, you can not possibly 'debunk' Islam, you need to consider atleast the major two schools.


But surely the Sunnah is not a topic that Shia's and Sunni's can agree upon?
Atheists, do you fear death? Do you hate the concept of death?
Original post by Nasir.
Atheists, do you fear death? Do you hate the concept of death?

There is only one thing worse than dying - not dying. Eternal life would, I am sure, be terrible. Think of what things were like for you before you were born - that is what being dead will feel like.

Dying, on the other hand, will be different for everyone. I expect we all hope to die peacefully and painlessly in our sleep. Sadly, that will not be the case for many.

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