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Are too many people going to university? Will we all have to do our own plumbing?

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I would have been a plumber if it wasn't for university...
Original post by gijops
seems like being a plumber will be the new investment banker

Someone call Mario :tongue:
Original post by mobbsy91
We'll just have more foreigners coming to do our plumbing for us...


Immigration is a potential solution to plug* the skills gap.

Thousands of young people in UK are employed as unskilled labour (call centers etc.). Perhaps we'll have to retrain them all in something useful in ten years time?


*see what i did there?
my next door neighbour retrained as a plumber having been an accountant.

He did some work for us and i estimated his charges over 5 days/50 weeks a year as an income ( labour charged not parts) of £75k.

to be fair, he needs to pay tax/an accountant ( maybe not, considering) and pay for his certification (Gas-safe)
That is not accounting for holidays, but also not for saturday work.
he is never short of work, and does not even advertise.

That is close to the salary of a uni professor

most graduates do not apply their degree to their career.
it is just used as a filter by employers
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by domonict

most graduates do not apply their degree to their career.
it is just used as a filter by employers


This is what I feel is very important, is the lack of students the problem or it is the lack of needed skills? We shouldn't be wasting years of our lives proving to employers who's skilled and not, we should be actually gaining these skills we need to stay competitive as a work force.
Original post by TomatoLounge
Immigration is a potential solution to plug* the skills gap.

Thousands of young people in UK are employed as unskilled labour (call centers etc.). Perhaps we'll have to retrain them all in something useful in ten years time?


*see what i did there?


Set it up beautifully :wink: good quick thinking though!
Original post by jneill
Good use of your History skillz.


Problem solving, critical thinking, synthesising lots of information :bandit::yy: Totes worth it
Original post by TomatoLounge
Read this report in the Guardian saying 'Skilled Workers' may vanish if cuts to further education continue.
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/jun/24/skilled-workers-vanish-further-education-budget-cuts-continue

The government want an unlimited amount of students to be able to study at university but surely that's gonna be bad for society?

I don't think I can cope with doing my own plumbing...


Supply and demand. Let the free hand handle all of this.
I can assure you there is no plumber shortage!! I have a family member who is a plumber and there are so many others around that he struggles to get any work
Original post by gijops
seems like being a plumber will be the new investment banker


I hate to say it, because I wish jobs like that were respected financially, but I suspect there's a lot more hype than reality in all the chat about how much different craft trades pay. Plumbers perhaps earn good money in some areas and cases, but as an hourly rate, it's very doubtful that it's anything like that of a middle class professional like a laywer, doctor, IT specialist or a business person working in a new industry. The reality is that most of the skilled trades involve long hours and gruelling work conditions to earn a good living. Self-employment in such roles, whilst it can be a good route for people with limited academic ability, is not a road to riches or even to middle class levels of prosperity. This is the main reason why people continue to pick university places over entry to such areas of employment, assuming they know about it or have the choice.
Reply 30
Avatar for Skitee
Skitee
10
Not gonna lie I think the impression of "student life" and the "clubbing, partying" impression given by the media and popular culture about the university life makes going to university itself extremely attractive to those who wouldn't go purely for the purpose of getting a degree or studying. Therefore, far too many people are going to university than society needs - society needs more scientists, historians, nurses, politicians, etc, yes, but it doesn't need more people with Sociology degrees from Middlesex? My solution: Force all universities to have high standards (including closing down underperforming ones), stop universities from offering non-academic degrees, and encourage "student life" as not necessarily being only for university students but something which anyone can do if they want!!
Original post by Skitee
Not gonna lie I think the impression of "student life" and the "clubbing, partying" impression given by the media and popular culture about the university life makes going to university itself extremely attractive to those who wouldn't go purely for the purpose of getting a degree or studying. Therefore, far too many people are going to university than society needs - society needs more scientists, historians, nurses, politicians, etc, yes, but it doesn't need more people with Sociology degrees from Middlesex? My solution: Force all universities to have high standards (including closing down underperforming ones), stop universities from offering non-academic degrees, and encourage "student life" as not necessarily being only for university students but something which anyone can do if they want!!


I'm curious in your world where's your idea of these minimum standards?

Which unis would be closed down?

Is it a grade limit like BCC and up for a level?
Reply 32
Avatar for Skitee
Skitee
10
Original post by woodsyIDH7
I'm curious in your world where's your idea of these minimum standards?

Which unis would be closed down?

Is it a grade limit like BCC and up for a level?


My idea of minimum standards would be to do with the thoroughness of the teaching and how challenging it is, not entry standards. I don't know enough about university to be sure but I'm fairly certain that different universities, even for the same course, teach it to varying standards of difficulty and perhaps that needs to be more tightly enforced?

As for universities, I'd (without knowing too much about polytechnics) say that bringing back the old polytechnics sounds like a great idea as it'd give us more of what we need - good vocational training rather than giving people three years of partying and drinking alongside a bit of academic studying they don't care about because it'd never count for anything anyway.

Really though I just think the principle - that a lot of people are going to uni just because it's fun and the done thing - stands and is something which should be discouraged, however people want to do it.


Just my take on the matter though - I'm probably wrong!

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Original post by Skitee


As for universities, I'd (without knowing too much about polytechnics) say that bringing back the old polytechnics sounds like a great idea as it'd give us more of what we need - good vocational training rather than giving people three years of partying and drinking alongside a bit of academic studying they don't care about because it'd never count for anything anyway.



Ah, the good old days when Middlesex Poly had the lagest philosophy department in the country. :colone:
Original post by Skitee
Not gonna lie I think the impression of "student life" and the "clubbing, partying" impression given by the media and popular culture about the university life makes going to university itself extremely attractive to those who wouldn't go purely for the purpose of getting a degree or studying. Therefore, far too many people are going to university than society needs - society needs more scientists, historians, nurses, politicians, etc, yes, but it doesn't need more people with Sociology degrees from Middlesex? My solution: Force all universities to have high standards (including closing down underperforming ones), stop universities from offering non-academic degrees, and encourage "student life" as not necessarily being only for university students but something which anyone can do if they want!!


"non-academic" degrees can be a really good thing though. My housemate is training as a paramedic - a job that would previously have involved training on job or a vocational course.

Because paramedics now have to be trained to degree standard, they have to include more academic components to the course. ie.) she has to write essays and a dissertation. Getting paramedics to think about wider issues in NHS (and make suggestions for changes) is a really positive thing.
I agree with Skitee, there are way too many people going to university, not because they should but because it's the done thing and they want to drink and so they can say "I have a degree!!!!!1!1". My friend got 2 Es and 2Us at A level, she's now doing a business BTEC at an awful college and now she's looking at going to the University of Southbank. No joke.
Reply 36
Avatar for S345k
S345k
2
Original post by MagicJigsaw
I agree with Skitee, there are way too many people going to university, not because they should but because it's the done thing and they want to drink and so they can say "I have a degree!!!!!1!1". My friend got 2 Es and 2Us at A level, she's now doing a business BTEC at an awful college and now she's looking at going to the University of Southbank. No joke.


I agree, The degree has been devalued, I ain't the best academically (Pretty average academically and Not being snobbish) but I know that lower tier universities are virtually accepting everyone which devalues the degree. Anybody with the attitude of going to university to "have drinks and party all the time" shouldn't be at uni
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by r_u_jelly
Working class is always the majority so no


It's possible to be working class and go to university.
Reply 38
Avatar for PJDK
PJDK
12
Original post by EPluribus Unum
2:1 these days is worthless, everyone has them. The whole system needs to be redone. Longer, harder degrees. More classifications as well.

Something like this....

Bachelors degree ( 4 years)
Masters degree (2 years)
PhD degree (4 years)


As an employer I would not want to employ someone who had just gone through 10 years of further education, with all the debt that goes along with that. The person's expectations are going to be way too high, this is already a problem as it is now.
The wage of a average plumber will skyrocket and everyone will be like, "Hey plumbing looks great! It pays £60k a year! Lets all go to plumbing school!" and thus the cycle will repeat...

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