Greek economy megathread

Are your friends voting Yes?

To be fair to them if it's just about the debt then i can see a great argument for voting no but if (as appears to be the case in Greece) your a Euro-federalist then leaving the EU (the implication of a No vote) is a pretty big price to pay.

we are all far right Greek nationalists.

the problem Greeks like us are a dying species ... The Greeks in Greece have no dignity.
(PS what you hear about the situation is mostly Western anti-Greek propaganda.)

Greece is a poor country that pretended to be a rich country for about 20 years. Their pensions are ridiculous given Greece exports very little and there is tax avoidance at every level of society. Greece is being asked to live within its means and is refusing. The other eurozone countries obviously don't want to keep subsidising ridiculously generous pensions and the Greeks are too deluded to accept this, so an exit seems the only option.

Not much of an issue. The UK banks will be ready and although there might be damage to the European economy in the short-term, at least the issue will be resolved.

Golden Dawn?

Thank you for your economic analysis ...

Should the draft agreement submitted by the European Commission, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund on 25.06.2015 that consists of two parts be accepted?

The first document is titled "Reforms for the completion of the current program and beyond'' and the second "Preliminary Debt Sustainability Analysis''

Answer boxes: Not approved/NO - Approved/YES

Would you care to elaborate?

Greece is a poor country that pretended to be a rich country for about 20 years. Their pensions are ridiculous given Greece exports very little and there is tax avoidance at every level of society. Greece is being asked to live within its means and is refusing. The other eurozone countries obviously don't want to keep subsidising ridiculously generous pensions and the Greeks are too deluded to accept this, so an exit seems the only option.

Not much of an issue. The UK banks will be ready and although there might be damage to the European economy in the short-term, at least the issue will be resolved.

Should the draft agreement submitted by the European Commission, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund on 25.06.2015 that consists of two parts be accepted?

The first document is titled "Reforms for the completion of the current program and beyond'' and the second "Preliminary Debt Sustainability Analysis''

Answer boxes: Not approved/NO - Approved/YES

The IMF and others have forced Greece into austerity - more specifically, a damaging and harmful internal devaluation. They've had to make massive cuts in a futile attempt to make their economy more competitive. The only way forward is for them to leave, devalue their currency and let exports lead the way.

What do you guys think?

Almost none of the huge amount of money loaned to Greece has actually gone there. It has gone to pay out private-sector creditors – including German and French banks. Greece has gotten but a pittance, but it has paid a high price to preserve these countries’ banking systems. The IMF and the other “official” creditors do not need the money that is being demanded. Under a business-as-usual scenario, the money received would most likely just be lent out again to Greece.

But, again, it’s not about the money. It’s about using “deadlines” to force Greece to knuckle under, and to accept the unacceptable – not only austerity measures, but other regressive and punitive policies...

A no vote would at least open the possibility that Greece, with its strong democratic tradition, might grasp its destiny in its own hands. Greeks might gain the opportunity to shape a future that, though perhaps not as prosperous as the past, is far more hopeful than the unconscionable torture of the present.

Now if I was a Greek who was minded to support austerity measures but not if it involved cuts to pensions, should I vote "yes" or "no"?

The bigger question is 'do you value Euro membership more than your pension?'.

The bigger question is 'do you value Euro membership more than your pension?'.

That is a perfectly possible question but it isn't my question.

How can you have a referendum where the actual question presented is literally unintelligible?

That is a perfectly possible question but it isn't my question.

How can you have a referendum where the actual question presented is literally unintelligible?

Because you're all missing the point, due to not understanding Greek. This representative ballot is trying to enforce people to vote "No" - It's already been likened to the Austrian referendum on inclusion into Greater Germany, Grobdeutsche.

I am sorry that is hyperbole.

The Anschluss question was perfectly intelligible.

Austrians didn't vote "yes" because the "yes" mark was bigger. They voted "yes" because:-

(a) They had no confidence in ballot secrecy and believed if they voted "no" action might be taken against them personally; and

(b) They realised that a "no" vote would not lead to the re-establishment of Austrian independence but rather to a quasi-colonial status.