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Original post by Munrot07
As an evolutionary biologist the points I made were valid.
Not to this thread
Original post by Munrot07
I then said from the human perspective this is the medical definition,
Well done!
Original post by Munrot07
That clearly says the egg must come from the animal therefore according to medicine the chicken came first.
Took you long enough!
Original post by Munrot07
Also, in your first post you never said you wanted a yes or no answer.
Chicken or egg then...
Original post by Munrot07
You wanted a debated.
As chicken vs egg, not on the relevance of the question.
Original post by Munrot07
My post gave an argument.
Against the thread itself.
Original post by Munrot07
I then gave some other points of view on the matter.
Criticizing the very thread that you've posted on four-fold.
Original post by Munrot07
You want a "definitive" answer to a question that hasn't got a "definitive" answer otherwise people would not still be asking it.
It has two possible definitive answers. One is "chicken"; the other is "egg" people keep asking because people can't decide between those two answers.
If a chicken egg is an egg laid by a chicken, then the chicken came first.

Proof: Trivial; a chicken is required to produce the egg so ipso facto the chicken exists first.

If a chicken egg is an egg containing a chicken, then the egg came first.

Proof: Take a chicken, and regress its lineage. I claim at some point, it has a non-chicken ancestor whose egg contained a chicken - The existence of the non-chicken ancestor exists non-contructively by the theory of evolution OR constructively by the fossil record. The claim it had an egg containing a chicken is a trivial consequence of the fact we traced this creature from the lineage of a chicken. Thus it was this species that first laid a chicken egg, and therefore the egg came first.

If a chicken egg is an egg containing a chicken AND is laid by a chicken, then chickens and their eggs do not exist.

Proof: It is known that life has not always existed on Earth. Following from the fact a chicken comes from an egg laid by a chicken, it is necessary for a chicken to exist to produce the egg. Mutatis Mutandis, it is necessary for an egg to exist to produce a chicken. Thus this is a process which, if it occurs, has always occurred. We know by the first fact this is not true, so creatures of this nature do not exist.



Remark: Looking back to the second proposition, we can use the third result to strengthen the proof to the over-skeptical. If one is not convinced by evolution nor the fossil record, then one's only choice of not finding a non-chicken ancestor, is to find only chickens! But if one finds only chickens, then we have the antecedent of the third proposition, whose consequent contradicts the fact we have chickens at all.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by FireGarden
If a chicken egg is an egg laid by a chicken, then the chicken came first.Proof: Trivial; a chicken is required to produce the egg so ipso facto the chicken exists first.If a chicken egg is an egg containing a chicken, then the egg came first.Proof: Take a chicken, and regress its lineage. I claim at some point, it has a non-chicken ancestor whose egg contained a chicken - The existence of the non-chicken ancestor exists non-contructively by the theory of evolution OR constructively by the fossil record. The claim it had an egg containing a chicken is a trivial consequence of the fact we traced this creature from the lineage of a chicken. Thus it was this species that first laid a chicken egg, and therefore the egg came first.If a chicken egg is an egg containing a chicken AND is laid by a chicken, then chickens and their eggs do not exist.Proof: It is known that life has not always existed on Earth. Following from the fact a chicken comes from an egg laid by a chicken, it is necessary for a chicken to exist to produce the egg. Mutatis Mutandis, it is necessary for an egg to exist to produce a chicken. Thus this is a process which, if it occurs, has always occurred. We know by the first fact this is not true, so creatures of this nature do not exist.Remark: Looking back to the second proposition, we can use the third result to strengthen the proof to the over-skeptical. If one is not convinced by evolution nor the fossil record, then one's only choice of not finding a non-chicken ancestor, is to find only chickens! But if one finds only chickens, then we have the antecedent of the third proposition, whose consequent contradicts the fact we have chickens at all.
I like your thinking.
Was this "thought exercise" invented before we learned evolution is a fact?
Original post by Skip_Snip
Was this "thought exercise" invented before we learned evolution is a fact?
Good question. Lets make a thought exercise to think an answer to that then...
I think you'll find it was the cockrell that was first to cum.
If you're a critical thinker, it's the egg. If you're a creationist, it's still the egg but you think it's the chicken
Original post by Poldork
I think you'll find it was the cockrell that was first to cum.


Naturally the sperm of the cockrel is infact an egg cell.
We can also consider that the eggs of chickens, as warm blooded animals, form whilst the chicken is in an embryonic state, so the egg is infact within another egg.
Original post by 04MR17
This is a debate thread between the first chicken and the first egg to produce a chicken. An alternative debate is what came first the chicken or the chicken egg, but in my eyes a chicken egg is laid by a chicken so that solves that one. The essential principle is did a chicken-like creature mutate into what we know as a chicken or did an egg contain weird mutations that produced the first 'proper' chicken. Let the debate, begin!


Original post by Mathlover123
No debate its the egg, you make it sound like the chicken mutated into something else after it came out the egg. It was a chicken as soon as the egg was laid, however what came first the chicken or the chickens egg is a bit of a trick question as by definition it has to be the chicken.


Dinosaurs laid eggs, so from a historical context, the answer is simple.

Clearly the egg came first as a result of two "chicken-like" species cross-breeding (potentially), which was just another point in evolution as we understand it.

#eggftw
Reply 69
The egg, from an animal that is not a chicken. Eggs existed for millions of years before the modern chicken.

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