The Student Room Group

Egyptian Historian: Gaza is our enemy, not Israel

There have been amazing changes occurring in Egypt. Specifically, the new regime of General Sisi appears to realise that ISIS is a bigger threat to them than Israel ever will be in the future. Last week there was an ISIS attack which simultaneously hit a number of Egyptian military bases in the Sinai, killing 17 soldiers.

This Egyptian historian went on TV last month and astonishingly said he views Gaza (presumably he's talking about Hamas as a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood) as his enemy, not Israel, and that Israel and Egypt should live in peace and harmony.

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4974.htm

Also, General Sisi went before the clerics of the Al-Azhar Mosque, the most prestigious in Egypt and perhaps the Middle East, and said that Muslims need to reform their religion and that it is antagonising the whole world. He said Islam needs a religious "revolution"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/22/sisi-muslims-adapt_n_6508808.html

Incredible. There's a new atmosphere in Egypt, a new breeze of realism and reform blowing through that part of the Middle East. These people should be supported
(edited 8 years ago)

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Might be something to do with Egyptian troops are combating Hamas supported ISIS troops in the Sinai.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.664352

Whilst Isis also claim to want to topple Hamas in gaza.

My enemy's enemy is my friend.
Al-Sisi isn't a bad guy!
Original post by The Dictator
Al-Sisi isn't a bad guy!


:rofl:
Sisi and his sheep were paid, and forcibly took down a democratically elected president, detaining members of the same party without charges, and were condemning them to a life in prison or to be executed. Soon after they were killing protestors who were protesting for their democratic rights, and still are to this day.

So any speech by this oppressive & human-right violating regime shouldn't be accepted, no matter how much they wish to be seen as legitimate. They have no real authority, just tomfoolery and weapons to point at their own nation.
Original post by getfunky!
:rofl:
Sisi and his sheep were paid, and forcibly took down a democratically elected president, detaining members of the same party without charges, and were condemning them to a life in prison or to be executed. Soon after they were killing protestors who were protesting for their democratic rights, and still are to this day.

So any speech by this oppressive & human-right violating regime shouldn't be accepted, no matter how much they wish to be seen as legitimate. They have no real authority, just tomfoolery and weapons to point at their own nation.


They're killing Islamists. We ally with who we must in the War on Terror. I don't care about whatever else al-Sisi is done. In any case every member of the Muslim Brotherhood should be shot on sight.
Reply 5
Original post by MatureStudent36
Might be something to do with Egyptian troops are combating Hamas supported ISIS troops in the Sinai.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.664352

Whilst Isis also claim to want to topple Hamas in gaza.

My enemy's enemy is my friend.


I think it's a little more than that. Israel and Egypt have had fairly close connections on the intelligence side for a couple of decades now. It's just that Sisi doesn't appear to feel comfortable playing up to the "Hero of the Palestinians" role that Hosni Mubarak still wanted to act out in public

Sisi is from a generation that never fought against Israel, and was educated at Western military colleges
Reply 6
Original post by getfunky!
:rofl:
Sisi and his sheep were paid, and forcibly took down a democratically elected president

A democratically-elected president who had gone insane and was determined to install a sharia dictatorship.

You forget, Sisi was democratically elected too and many of the people who were in Tahrir Square in 2011 were there again in 2013 calling for Morsi's overthrow.

The Muslim Brotherhood are terrorists.
Reply 7
Original post by The Dictator
They're killing Islamists. We ally with who we must in the War on Terror. I don't care about whatever else al-Sisi is done. In any case every member of the Muslim Brotherhood should be shot on sight.


Not just that, he's a genuine reformer; he understands that Islam must be reformed, and that Egypt's future involves peace with Israel

He is also sensitive to Western opinion on LGBT rights, having ordered the release of some men who were swept up as a result of a hysterical TV campaign
Reply 8
Original post by The Dictator
They're killing Islamists. We ally with who we must in the War on Terror. I don't care about whatever else al-Sisi is done. In any case every member of the Muslim Brotherhood should be shot on sight.


This clip is worth watching; an Egyptian cleric "Sheikh Mizo" says the Salafists and Brotherhood members should be annihilated.

He also criticises the Al-Azhar Mosque for calling for the death of apostates

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4986.htm

Naturally he has a crack at the Zionists but this is to be expected
(edited 8 years ago)
Certain posters on TSR (the sort who supported Morsi...) will say he is a Western shill but they really need to look at the issue from Sisi's perspective.


Hamas are not just anti-Israel, they have killed countless Muslims who oppose them and are incredibly sympathetic towards Salafism so if there is a organisation which launches raids into your country, blows up civilians you will oppose them. It's easy to talk about the evil Israelis but when they ignore you and Hamas kill your family, it's clear who it is causing you problems even if you yourself are a Muslim.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by The Dictator
They're killing Islamists. We ally with who we must in the War on Terror. I don't care about whatever else al-Sisi is done. In any case every member of the Muslim Brotherhood should be shot on sight.


"Islamists" :lolwut: they were killing protestors!. Your ludicrous comment really highlights the problem, you think it is fine to kill protestors/members of a party, simply because you disagree with them, then your views at not at all different than the extremists you view collateral.

Would you think it to be fine to kill members of whichever party you oppose in the UK?
Original post by ExcitedPup
I think it's a little more than that. Israel and Egypt have had fairly close connections on the intelligence side for a couple of decades now. It's just that Sisi doesn't appear to feel comfortable playing up to the "Hero of the Palestinians" role that Hosni Mubarak still wanted to act out in public

Sisi is from a generation that never fought against Israel, and was educated at Western military colleges

And although some would like to portray those plucky Palestinian refugees, they're actually a pain in the arse for any country that hosts them.
Original post by ExcitedPup
A democratically-elected president who had gone insane and was determined to install a sharia dictatorship.
You forget, Sisi was democratically elected too and many of the people who were in Tahrir Square in 2011 were there again in 2013 calling for Morsi's overthrow.
The Muslim Brotherhood are terrorists.


When you hold a gun to a nation, forcing them to either accept your military rule or suffer consequences, then it can't be accepted as legitimate.

Western nations happily accepted that Morsi and his party were elected by the nation. Not forcibly taking a position of power that they didn't deserve.
Original post by getfunky!
"Islamists" :lolwut: they were killing protestors!. Your ludicrous comment really highlights the problem, you think it is fine to kill protestors/members of a party, simply because you disagree with them, then your views at not at all different than the extremists you view collateral.

Would you think it to be fine to kill members of whichever party you oppose in the UK?


We're talking about the Muslim Brotherhood here. They aren't just any political party. They are an international terrorist organisation.
Original post by getfunky!
When you hold a gun to a nation, forcing them to either accept your military rule or suffer consequences, then it can't be accepted as legitimate.

Western nations happily accepted that Morsi and his party were elected by the nation. Not forcibly taking a position of power that they didn't deserve.


Democracy is stupid.
Reply 15
Original post by getfunky!
When you hold a gun to a nation, forcing them to either accept your military rule or suffer consequences, then it can't be accepted as legitimate.


You are confusing cause and effect. Morsi said he would not intervene unless the people demonstrated they desired the army to intervene; millions of people took to the streets to demand the Army take power and remove the Brotherhood

Do you actually know any Egyptians?

Western nations happily accepted that Morsi and his party were elected by the nation. Not forcibly taking a position of power that they didn't deserve.


And that was a legitimate stance to take when he was first elected. As his rule became more depraved, and it became clearer that he intended to be a dictator, the situation changes. The Egyptian military was more than justified in stepping in
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 16
Al sisi is a great leader, he has closed 27000 mosques to combat terrorism and wants to reform islam. This has made him hated by many muslims but he has stuck to his guns
Original post by sdotd
Al sisi is a great leader, he has closed 27000 mosques to combat terrorism and wants to reform islam. This has made him hated by many muslims but he has stuck to his guns


How does closing Mosques combat terrorism? Could you please explain?

Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by NaTaLiiA513
How does closing Mosques combat terrorism? Could you please explain?

Posted from TSR Mobile


It's not actually mosques that have been closed, it's local places of worship which are not official mosques and whose preachers are not under the supervision of or licensed by the state religious authorities. These places are believed to be likely to be hotbeds of radicalism where terrorism is preached and radicalism fostered.
Abdel Fattah al-Sisi of Egypt has presided over the flagrant abuse of human rights since taking office a year ago pledging to restore stability. Violence by armed groups and the government has escalated.

The United States and European governments should stop overlooking Egyptian government abuses, including a lack of accountability for many killings of protesters by security forces, mass detentions, military trials of civilians, hundreds of death sentences, and the forced eviction of thousands of families in the Sinai Peninsula.

Over the past year, al-Sisi and his cabinet, governing by decree in the absence of an elected parliament, have provided near total impunity for security force abuses and issued a raft of laws that severely curtailed civil and political rights, effectively erasing the human rights gains of the 2011 uprising that ousted the longtime ruler Hosni Mubarak.

“The al-Sisi government is acting as though to restore stability Egypt needs a dose of repression the likes of which it hasn’t seen for decades, but its treatment is killing the patient,” said Joe Stork, deputy Middle East and North Africa director. “What makes it worse is that Western governments that subordinated human rights in their relations with Egypt during the Mubarak era seem ready to repeat their mistake.”

No member of the security forces has been held accountable for the mass killings of protesters that followed the military’s July 2013 removal of Mohamed Morsy, Egypt’s first freely elected president, which al-Sisi orchestrated as defense minister. These included the killing of at least 900 people in a single day, August 14, during security operations to clear protest sites in Cairo.

These killings amounted to probable crimes against humanity. But a government-commissioned fact-finding committee that investigated the events related to Morsy’s removal released only an executive summary of its findings in November 2014. The executive summary did not recommend any investigations into the mass killings, and Egypt’s prosecutor general has never announced an independent investigation.

Attacks by insurgent groups increased in the North Sinai governorate immediately following Morsy’s removal, but both insurgent attacks and government arrests and violence have escalated sharply since an October 2014 attack on a military base there, Human Rights Watch research has found. Attacks on police and government infrastructure have also become common in mainland Egypt. The government has responded by clearing a kilometer-wide buffer zone on the border with the Gaza Strip, trying thousands of civilians in military courts, and arresting those who dissent.

In its annual report, released in May 2015, the quasi-governmental National Council for Human Rights (NCHR) stated that the “right to life witnessed horrible deterioration” in 2013 and 2014. The report said that violence had resulted in about 2,600 deaths in that period, including 700 security personnel, 1,250 supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood the organization to which Morsy belonged and 550 other civilians.

Since al-Sisi came to power, the authorities have continued to aggressively enforce a de facto protest ban and routinely dispersed anti-government demonstrations with force. In January 2015, at least 20 people died during events surrounding the fourth anniversary of the 2011 uprising. Prosecutors charged a member of the Central Security Forces (CSF) for the January 24 killing of a leftist activist but also charged 17 people who witnessed her killing with violating the anti-protest law. In February, at least 19 soccer fans died in a stampede outside a Cairo stadium after police fired tear gas into a crowd of hundreds lined up to pass through an enclosed metal corridor. Prosecutors charged members of one of the team’s fan clubs and alleged Brotherhood members for the stampede, but no police officers.

A congressionally mandated US State Department report on Egypt’s political situation submitted in May 2015 found that “a series of executive initiatives, new laws, and judicial actions severely restrict freedom of expression and the press, freedom of association, freedom of peaceful assembly, and due process, and they undermine prospects for democratic governance.”


source: Human Rights Watch

Original post by ExcitedPup

And that was a legitimate stance to take when he was first elected. As his rule became more depraved, and it became clearer that he intended to be a dictator, the situation changes. The Egyptian military was more than justified in stepping in


Really? That excerpt sounds justified, I find it ludicrous that you speculate that Morsi would have become a dictator - which he wouldn't have, as you proved by mentioning that Morsi was listening to the demands of the electorate.

Instead you now defend a proven dictator - el-Sisi:lolwut:

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