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ISIS flag guy did nothing illegal

Friendly reminder that you live in a 21st century international megapolis, a pinnacle of civilisation, developed over the sweat and tears of lawmakers, thinkers and philsophers for thousands of years.

We have freedom of expression and we recognise the fact that different people will have different opinions, and although they might be abhorrive and digusting, they have equal weighing before the law just like any other opinion.


It is not hate speech to wear an ISIS flag;- hate speech intentionally seeks to offend a certain person or group of people, meaning this guy has a right to believe that killing all infidels is right, but not threaten any directly with death.

I am saddenned by people on social media trying to attack the police for not arresting a man with an opinion not doing any harm, or worse, call for arresting that guy for treason: for they don't respect the delicacy of our law system and our government's philosophical standing, and just how much work it took for us historically to reach a stage in a civilisation where we overcome our emotions and respect people's right to free speech rather than killing them for it. The latter, by the way, is what the Caliphate would do, and we are not them.

I despise what you say but I will defend to death your right to say it

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Reply 1
Avatar for LibertyMan
LibertyMan
OP
16
The moral argument for having freedom of opinion in our world, or the most convincing one to me at least, is that our growth as a race depends on different ideas clashing and getting explored and evaluated. The more varied and passionate thinkers and philosophers we have the better. We cannot ban political opinions, because they bring about change that molds our society for the better. No, this doesn't mean ISIS is good- but that we can't claim to know what is good or bad or have truly objective morality, so we need to respect all sorts of opinions, whether very hippie or very aggressive, in order to breed some genius philosophers somewhere that will help us progress.

Secondaly, following the same argument that we can't claim to know what is right or wrong, we simply ought to respect people's opinions, because if we don't, we are arbitarily surpressing them, and that means any opinion, even a good one, can be arbitarily surpressed in the future by a tyrannical government.

I'd like to finish off with saying that over history man evolved in a constant struggle to fight his emotions and let his reason be in control his animalistic body. We are halting this evolution of intellectual power if we choose to use draconian power to surpress opinions that we feel an animalistic negative instinct towards, rather than using logic and debate to win people over. What makes a philosopher different to an extremist is that the extremist is completely enslaved to his emotions and passions, while a philosopher has masterred himself with his intellect. Who would you rather be?
I don't think he should be arrested, but I would question his ability to take care of his child and would want that looked into. Reminds me of that US neo-nazi couple who had their kids taken for similar reason.
If a country has to arrest a guy with a flag to protect itself then that country is truly weak beyond salvation.
Reply 4
Avatar for jcwh97
jcwh97
2
He may not be braking the law but you should be able to confiscate anything that supports these scum who murder and rape women and children. If you disagree you may as well be wearing the flag as well.

Posted from TSR Mobile
If I burn a Koran, I will be arrested. If I burn a Bible, I will not be arrested.
Reply 6
Avatar for 22.22
22.22
11
Would rep- one of the most well-reasoned posts I've come across
Original post by LibertyMan
Friendly reminder that you live in a 21st century international megapolis, a pinnacle of civilisation, developed over the sweat and tears of lawmakers, thinkers and philsophers for thousands of years.

We have freedom of expression and we recognise the fact that different people will have different opinions, and although they might be abhorrive and digusting, they have equal weighing before the law just like any other opinion.


It is not hate speech to wear an ISIS flag;- hate speech intentionally seeks to offend a certain person or group of people, meaning this guy has a right to believe that killing all infidels is right, but not threaten any directly with death.

I am saddenned by people on social media trying to attack the police for not arresting a man with an opinion not doing any harm, or worse, call for arresting that guy for treason: for they don't respect the delicacy of our law system and our government's philosophical standing, and just how much work it took for us historically to reach a stage in a civilisation where we overcome our emotions and respect people's right to free speech rather than killing them for it. The latter, by the way, is what the Caliphate would do, and we are not them.

I despise what you say but I will defend to death your right to say it

What if I had worn a flag with a swastika?
Original post by 22.22
Would rep- one of the most well-reasoned posts I've come across

Who's this, Cameron/Clegg mk. 2?

Too many wet pussies in this country with your attitude. We should have bundled him in to a white van and sent him to Pakistan.
Original post by billydisco
What if I had worn a flag with a swastika?


that's not illegal either
As much as I'd like to see the flag removed and burnt in front of him whilst he is tasered in the nuts, I can't think of any legal justification for that. I don't think he is fit to raise children though. If social services randomly paid a visit and took his kid(s) into custody, that wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
It saddens you that people want him arrested? What? It doesn't sadden you that these people, full of hatred, supporting a fundamentalist group who would gladly see all of us killed, are allowed to parade their flag around outside our parliament, because it's within their 'human rights'? It doesn't sadden you that he has a young child who is being brought up with these horrific beliefs?

Jesus Christ.
No, displaying the IS flag is very likely to provoke panic, and it must be banned. A direct proscription would give radicals a cause agianst the British government, so it should simply be prosecuted under Public Order Act 1986 sec 4.

I have been thinking maybe the Met let this one go - especially as in this case the man was not an actual danger - in order to gauge public opinion on this most sensitive of political topics, and possibly to allow some politician to make political capital out of it.
Original post by billydisco
Who's this, Cameron/Clegg mk. 2?

Too many wet pussies in this country with your attitude. We should have bundled him in to a white van and sent him to Pakistan.


Except we live under rule of law. How easily you allow terrorists to subvert British values. Weak. Weak. Weak.
Original post by LibertyMan

It is not hate speech to wear an ISIS flag


That's highly debatable. It's the symbol of a proscribed, illegal terrorist organisation that only recently murdered 30 Britons, and has a genocidal agenda.

I would consider it incitement and encouragement of terrorism per s1 of the 2006 act;

(2)A person commits an offence if—

(a)he publishes a statement to which this section applies or causes another to publish such a statement; and

(b)at the time he publishes it or causes it to be published, he—

(i)intends members of the public to be directly or indirectly encouraged or otherwise induced by the statement to commit, prepare or instigate acts of terrorism or Convention offences;

or(ii)is reckless as to whether members of the public will be directly or indirectly encouraged or otherwise induced by the statement to commit, prepare or instigate such acts or offences.


I think it would be reasonable to construe "statement" and "publish" in the same manner as other analogous offences or torts, and that it would include the public display of images, etc

There are also very strong arguments in favour of this being a public order offence;

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if he—

(a)uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour,

or(b)displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by scrotgrot
No, displaying the IS flag is very likely to provoke panic, and it must be banned. A direct proscription would give radicals a cause agianst the British government, so it should simply be prosecuted under Public Order Act 1986 sec 4.


My thoughts exactly.
(edited 8 years ago)
seriously? after everything ISIS have done, walking around like that, after the tunisa attack and close to the aniversary of 7/7 is meant as a threat. it is not "free speech". that flag is frightening and extremely psychologically distressing to the public. we have seen it when person after person are beheaded or murdered in other barbaric manners. ISIS are gaining ground. they threaten to come here and slaughter us. wearing the ISIS flag isn't hate speech? I beg to differ. It is exactly that. that flag is a symbol of terror and murder, against us. he should have been taken into custody and his home and computer should have been searched, definitely. you do not know what could have been found. this is not one for "political correctness" or "free speech". we should not allow this. what next?

edit: also i'm very surprised this did not cause more of a commotion on the street (at least, that hasn't been reported.) this could have lead to a lot of trouble right there and then. perhaps that's why he took a little kid with him as some sort of 'protection'.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by blahbleeblah
seriously? after everything ISIS have done, walking around like that, after the tunisa attack and close to the aniversary of 7/7 is meant as a threat. it is not "free speech". that flag is frightening and extremely psychologically distressing to the public. we have seen it when person after person are beheaded or murdered in other barbaric manners. ISIS are gaining ground. they threaten to come here and slaughter us. wearing the ISIS flag isn't hate speech? I beg to differ. It is exactly that. that flag is a symbol of terror and murder, against us. he should have been taken into custody and his home and computer should have been searched, definitely. you do not know what could have been found. this is not one for "political correctness". we should not allow this. what next?


This
Also, s13(1) of the Terrorism Act 2000;

13Uniform.

(1)A person in a public place commits an offence if he—

(a)wears an item of clothing, or

(b)wears, carries or displays an article,in such a way or in such circumstances as to arouse reasonable suspicion that he is a member or supporter of a proscribed organisation.


That seems like a straightforward offence that this revolting terrorist sympathiser has committed.
Original post by Carpe Vinum
It saddens you that people want him arrested? What? It doesn't sadden you that these people, full of hatred, supporting a fundamentalist group who would gladly see all of us killed, are allowed to parade their flag around outside our parliament, because it's within their 'human rights'? It doesn't sadden you that he has a young child who is being brought up with these horrific beliefs?

Jesus Christ.


He didn't say that it doesn't sadden him that the man has a young child or that this fundamentalist group exists and is parading its flag outside of our parliament. All he said is that it's within the man's rights. He even made clear that he disagrees with the man!

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