MBB vs BB IB?
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Original post by FVP
Do you work in IB? lol
This forum is pathetic. Clueless students giving second-hand advice to even more clueless students.
This forum is pathetic. Clueless students giving second-hand advice to even more clueless students.
who are you talking about?
his hours may be off a bit, normally if you do a couple all nighters youre allowed to come into office later the next days, around 11-ish, overall though whats he said wrong?
Original post by Princepieman
Eh? Those are the hours that I've been told by someone who's an IBD Analyst. It all varies based on if you're in a live deal or not. Also varies on the bank - European banks (especially the French ones) tend to have lower hours.
Stop being a condescending douchebag.
Stop being a condescending douchebag.
That's nice. I am actually in IBD and at one of the elite boutiques, which are notorious for bad hours. No one works until 4am and comes in at 9am the next day, that is not a bad day, that is a dire day.
I am not saying you are wildly wrong about the hours, you are pretty much right, but it's just the way you are preaching like it's a fact when you've just heard it second hand from somebody else. If you have any questions then I'd be happy to answer them.
Original post by FVP
That's nice. I am actually in IBD and at one of the elite boutiques, which are notorious for bad hours. No one works until 4am and comes in at 9am the next day, that is not a bad day, that is a dire day.
I am not saying you are wildly wrong about the hours, you are pretty much right, but it's just the way you are preaching like it's a fact when you've just heard it second hand from somebody else. If you have any questions then I'd be happy to answer them.
I am not saying you are wildly wrong about the hours, you are pretty much right, but it's just the way you are preaching like it's a fact when you've just heard it second hand from somebody else. If you have any questions then I'd be happy to answer them.
Do you enjoy your work?
Original post by Princepieman
I think you'll find that exit opps are multitudes better at MBB. You can move into pretty much anything.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
This. A job at MBB is pretty much a swiss army knife for exit opps.
Not sure what exit opps are for other consulting firms, but if you want finance exit opps (PE, HF, VC, etc) MBB is pretty much a prerequisite.
Re: IB hours, w.r.t. to weekend work I think I've worked on average about 3 or 4 out of every 8 or so weekend days in a month, in my analyst years thus far - but that ranges from like 3 hours work in a day to the whole day spent working, so no, it's not every weekend, but can still be a lot, yes.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by MAINE.
This. A job at MBB is pretty much a swiss army knife for exit opps.
Not sure what exit opps are for other consulting firms, but if you want finance exit opps (PE, HF, VC, etc) MBB is pretty much a prerequisite.
Re: IB hours, w.r.t. to weekend work I think I've worked on average about 3 or 4 out of every 8 or so weekend days in a month, in my analyst years thus far - but that ranges from like 3 hours work in a day to the whole day spent working, so no, it's not every weekend, but can still be a lot, yes.
Not sure what exit opps are for other consulting firms, but if you want finance exit opps (PE, HF, VC, etc) MBB is pretty much a prerequisite.
Re: IB hours, w.r.t. to weekend work I think I've worked on average about 3 or 4 out of every 8 or so weekend days in a month, in my analyst years thus far - but that ranges from like 3 hours work in a day to the whole day spent working, so no, it's not every weekend, but can still be a lot, yes.
Original post by FVP
That's nice. I am actually in IBD and at one of the elite boutiques, which are notorious for bad hours. No one works until 4am and comes in at 9am the next day, that is not a bad day, that is a dire day.
I am not saying you are wildly wrong about the hours, you are pretty much right, but it's just the way you are preaching like it's a fact when you've just heard it second hand from somebody else. If you have any questions then I'd be happy to answer them.
I am not saying you are wildly wrong about the hours, you are pretty much right, but it's just the way you are preaching like it's a fact when you've just heard it second hand from somebody else. If you have any questions then I'd be happy to answer them.
Thanks for the insight guys.
In terms of travelling, is going out for IPO roadshows common or are you mostly based in the office? And, if you work in a coverage group, what's the breakdown of M&A vs other types of deals percentage wise?
Original post by FVP
That's nice. I am actually in IBD and at one of the elite boutiques, which are notorious for bad hours. No one works until 4am and comes in at 9am the next day, that is not a bad day, that is a dire day.
I am not saying you are wildly wrong about the hours, you are pretty much right, but it's just the way you are preaching like it's a fact when you've just heard it second hand from somebody else. If you have any questions then I'd be happy to answer them.
I am not saying you are wildly wrong about the hours, you are pretty much right, but it's just the way you are preaching like it's a fact when you've just heard it second hand from somebody else. If you have any questions then I'd be happy to answer them.
I think that may be my firm..... is it the one which has some buyside activities as well as advisory.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Princepieman
I've sent you a PM.
Original post by Princepieman
Thanks for the insight guys.
In terms of travelling, is going out for IPO roadshows common or are you mostly based in the office? And, if you work in a coverage group, what's the breakdown of M&A vs other types of deals percentage wise?
In terms of travelling, is going out for IPO roadshows common or are you mostly based in the office? And, if you work in a coverage group, what's the breakdown of M&A vs other types of deals percentage wise?
I've sent you a PM.
Original post by Princepieman
Eh? Those are the hours that I've been told by someone who's an IBD Analyst. It all varies based on if you're in a live deal or not. Also varies on the bank - European banks (especially the French ones) tend to have lower hours.
Stop being a condescending douchebag.
Stop being a condescending douchebag.
Where did you hear this? I have a friend at BNP paribas and he's working the worst hours of anyone i know in IBD. like 9-4 both days last weekend, not even in M&A.
Original post by fuuji
Where did you hear this? I have a friend at BNP paribas and he's working the worst hours of anyone i know in IBD. like 9-4 both days last weekend, not even in M&A.
Going off what Will told me about Soc Gen but he's in FIG. Tbh, hours are too variable to even give an accurate picture.
Original post by fuuji
Where did you hear this? I have a friend at BNP paribas and he's working the worst hours of anyone i know in IBD. like 9-4 both days last weekend, not even in M&A.
Have never heard anything about French banks having fewer hours than average....have definitely heard about them paying less than average though.
Original post by Princepieman
Thanks for the insight guys.
In terms of travelling, is going out for IPO roadshows common or are you mostly based in the office? And, if you work in a coverage group, what's the breakdown of M&A vs other types of deals percentage wise?
In terms of travelling, is going out for IPO roadshows common or are you mostly based in the office? And, if you work in a coverage group, what's the breakdown of M&A vs other types of deals percentage wise?
I work in a sector coverage group. Have worked in two banks since I graduated and tbh at the Analyst level how much you get to travel/attend client meetings is more a function of just how willing your team is to let you do so. You travel/attend meetings more at the Associate level because then you're really expected to be accountable for stuff and be able to explain things to clients, and be not just a number cruncher as Analysts are.
There's no universal split of M&A, ECM, DCM work that applies to all banks. It depends on what the team/bank is good at, and what they can make most money off given time invested. In a sector coverage team though at least, more of your actual time will be devoted to M&A rather Financing because Financing is typically not something that requires too much sector expertise.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by xXxSharkxXx
Starting salary?
Salary progression?
Better exit opportunities?
Work/life balance?
prestige?
Salary progression?
Better exit opportunities?
Work/life balance?
prestige?
Starting salary? BBs in UK; in some other locations equal or shifted in favour of MBB
Salary progression? BBs (esp. incl. Bonus) enough that probably equals out around Director/Principal level
Better exit opportunities? MBB
Work/life balance? Both suck in different ways if oyu're talking BB IBD, depends on what you're more willing to sacrifice. Otherwise BB S&T
prestige? Probably BBs in UK and US, elsewhere probably MBB (well, MB really)
Original post by xXxSharkxXx
Finally, thank you. Work/life balance is what will probably be the deciding factor if I were ever in a position to choose. Exit opportunities are also a thing I value. Which is best for going into HF?
Depends on HF, but usually BB is a good bet, bt even then depends on what role you're doing and what HF. These questions are jsut to broad to give a good answer to.
Original post by xXxSharkxXx
Thank you for the detailed response. 9am-4am? That has to be illegal, how is that even possible?
It is in he EU, except in the UK. They, like in everything in Europe, opted out of making the EU Work Time Directive obligatory. Not that you work less in IBD in other countries. Its just illegal.
Original post by welcometoib
ironically the title of this thread is my predicament, in a really serious way, was focused on ibd but consulting is so much more interesting.
id choose ow and oc and c over any ibd without thinking twice. defo for at least a summer internship.
if i was guaranteed my absolute choice of desk in ibd in whatever firm i loved, for their culture, not prestige, which is more important, then id think twice. in the end though, getting somewhere like a summer in a top mc firm really is something to be valued, it would be too much pain and what if to say no to imo.
id choose ow and oc and c over any ibd without thinking twice. defo for at least a summer internship.
if i was guaranteed my absolute choice of desk in ibd in whatever firm i loved, for their culture, not prestige, which is more important, then id think twice. in the end though, getting somewhere like a summer in a top mc firm really is something to be valued, it would be too much pain and what if to say no to imo.
Its easy enough to lateral between the two if you position yourself correctly
Original post by Princepieman
Eh? Those are the hours that I've been told by someone who's an IBD Analyst. It all varies based on if you're in a live deal or not. Also varies on the bank - European banks (especially the French ones) tend to have lower hours.
Stop being a condescending douchebag.
Stop being a condescending douchebag.
While in general the culture at US BBs is harsher, this does not translate directly into better hours. I worked at an European bank and my hours were definitely worse than those done at most BBs. But that is down to the team and microclimate within the team. I've been told some teams at GS don't really do much longer than 10pm on a regulat basis, other teams at 2nd tier banks or even 3rd tier banks and boutiques will rival those done at the most intense BB and elite boutiqe teams. In fact, it can for many be that the lwoer tier banks really do put in more ours as they try to deliver the same quality work with much less manpwoer and support infrastructure / tools. Though it is true that banks (not just European) much further down the chain, say ING, RW Biard, DC Advisory, Houlihan Lockey (if headhunters are to be believed, they cut down massively on hours) etc, will work much more reasonable hours overall and do fewer weekends.
Original post by welcometoib
who are you talking about?
his hours may be off a bit, normally if you do a couple all nighters youre allowed to come into office later the next days, around 11-ish, overall though whats he said wrong?
his hours may be off a bit, normally if you do a couple all nighters youre allowed to come into office later the next days, around 11-ish, overall though whats he said wrong?
Original post by FVP
That's nice. I am actually in IBD and at one of the elite boutiques, which are notorious for bad hours. No one works until 4am and comes in at 9am the next day, that is not a bad day, that is a dire day.
Might be the unwritten rule at most BBs, but not at all banks or teams. I know some who insist (or used to) that people be in at 9am sharp (and latest, ideally earlier), regardless of how long the night has been.
In my team, if I'd come in as late as 11, it'd really must have been 6am. And not jsut a one-off, but several days in a row.
Though I guess the laxness at BBs makes it easier to do interviews before you get in.
Original post by MAINE.
Not sure what exit opps are for other consulting firms, but if you want finance exit opps (PE, HF, VC, etc) MBB is pretty much a prerequisite.
Not sure what exit opps are for other consulting firms, but if you want finance exit opps (PE, HF, VC, etc) MBB is pretty much a prerequisite.
Never heard or seen that MBB was seen a prerequisite for PE, HF or VC, though some buyside shops do prefer it, they are in the minority.
Original post by Princepieman
Thanks for the insight guys.
In terms of travelling, is going out for IPO roadshows common or are you mostly based in the office? And, if you work in a coverage group, what's the breakdown of M&A vs other types of deals percentage wise?
In terms of travelling, is going out for IPO roadshows common or are you mostly based in the office? And, if you work in a coverage group, what's the breakdown of M&A vs other types of deals percentage wise?
Entirely a function of your MD's willingness to let you go. Some folks are lucky and get to tag along to most important meetings or events, e.g. management presentation or site visit. Some clients prefer their advisors to work on site, so you might end up spending most of your time babysitting a client at their HQ. With others you're lucky if you get invited to any of the conference calls. Its also a matter of simplicity. You'll be more likely to go to a client meeting in Birmingham than a site visit in a mining village 9 hours car drive from Astana (yes, that does happen), as you don't really want the Analyst to spend 40 hours unproductively in transit. Another factor is the sector. You're more likely to travel in a sector such as Metals & Mining than in FIG for things such as site visits etc.
Personally, my last MD never took anyone below VP level to meetings, even if they were in London. Was not helped by the travel policy which limited the number of people from a team allowed to go to a pitch.
My previous MD though was happy to send an analyst to Ghana for a few weeks without any notice so they can do modelling and check on DD at the target's location.
Original post by fuuji
I think that may be my firm..... is it the one which has some buyside activities as well as advisory.
Might just spell it out at this point. But granted, advisory + buyside is not eally something unique to them but could also mean Rothschild, Blackstone, Evercore, PWP, Moelis and plenty of other firms of all sizes.
Original post by Princepieman
Going off what Will told me about Soc Gen but he's in FIG. Tbh, hours are too variable to even give an accurate picture.
He's FIG coverage not FIG M&A. Completely different game at SG and some other banks.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by KLL
Never heard or seen that MBB was seen a prerequisite for PE, HF or VC, though some buyside shops do prefer it, they are in the minority.
I should actually be more specific. Have never seen any consultants at HFs, so just referring to PE and VC.
Having interviewed at a few VC places myself this year, know there is more of a bias for MBB in PE than VC. In PE, of course no firm just considers candidates from MBB, but when you do see consultants in PE they tend to come from MBB. It's exactly the same bias a lot of PE firms have for BB banks.
[video="youtube;ROlDmux7Tk4"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROlDmux7Tk4[/video]
Original post by Boy_wonder_95
[video="youtube;ROlDmux7Tk4"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROlDmux7Tk4[/video]
Basically illustrates how both jobs are bascially bull****. As a junior, only real difference is hours and that in one you get paid with cash and the other you get paid with miles and starwood points (which is actually worth a lot if you got the time to use em).
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Boy_wonder_95
[video="youtube;ROlDmux7Tk4"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROlDmux7Tk4[/video]
The IBer totally killed it when he brought up the consultant's salary....
I would say consulting personally, but it'll depend on your personal intellectual interest.
As an objective thing:
Pay: Banker
Pay per hour worked: Even
Pay progression: Banker
Pay v risk of sacking/redundancy: Consulting
Exit Opps: Consulting
PE/HF: Banking
Int Travel Opps: Consulting
Prestige: Even*
Content of work: Consulting
People: Consulting
Training and Development: Consulting
Work Life Balance: Consulting
So overall I would go with consulting, especially if you're not sure about committing to the finance career track. Its pretty hard for bankers to take non-finance jobs relative to consultants should they realise its not for them. Not so with consulting.
*MBB of course.
As an objective thing:
Pay: Banker
Pay per hour worked: Even
Pay progression: Banker
Pay v risk of sacking/redundancy: Consulting
Exit Opps: Consulting
PE/HF: Banking
Int Travel Opps: Consulting
Prestige: Even*
Content of work: Consulting
People: Consulting
Training and Development: Consulting
Work Life Balance: Consulting
So overall I would go with consulting, especially if you're not sure about committing to the finance career track. Its pretty hard for bankers to take non-finance jobs relative to consultants should they realise its not for them. Not so with consulting.
*MBB of course.
Just to weigh in.
Pay: BB IBD/S&T pays far better than consulting. Consulting starts at 40k vs. 50k base + approx. 20k bonus for banking (depending on the bank).
Pay Progression: BB IBD/S&T
Risk of Redundancy: Highest risk BB S&T > BB IBD = Consulting IMO. Consulting is pretty up and out whereas I feel in IBD, they need the bodies
Exit Opps: If you want finance exit opps (PE or HF) then for sure BB IBD is far better. If you want to work at a normal company or anything else consulting is better (note that the pay is far better for PE/HF compared to normal jobs).
Travel Opps: Consulting. But it depends because e.g. Bain doesn't staff globally so you won't really be travelling internationally.
Work Life Balance: BB S&T > Consulting > IBD. Hours suck in IBD but travel isn't that much better either.
Pay: BB IBD/S&T pays far better than consulting. Consulting starts at 40k vs. 50k base + approx. 20k bonus for banking (depending on the bank).
Pay Progression: BB IBD/S&T
Risk of Redundancy: Highest risk BB S&T > BB IBD = Consulting IMO. Consulting is pretty up and out whereas I feel in IBD, they need the bodies
Exit Opps: If you want finance exit opps (PE or HF) then for sure BB IBD is far better. If you want to work at a normal company or anything else consulting is better (note that the pay is far better for PE/HF compared to normal jobs).
Travel Opps: Consulting. But it depends because e.g. Bain doesn't staff globally so you won't really be travelling internationally.
Work Life Balance: BB S&T > Consulting > IBD. Hours suck in IBD but travel isn't that much better either.
(edited 8 years ago)
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