Didnt go to interview but got an offer!

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Why must you all place so much emphasis on league tables? University is university. Full stop. You have pointed out that Portsmouth is 78th or whatever. But the course that this person is applying for could well be in the top 25 in the lists. If you work hard enough, you will get the grade you deserve regardless. What you are all doing is like saying to someone who went to a really "rough" school and got 12 A*s that they aren't as good as someone who went to a private school and did the same. League tables mean very little in the end, especially when you break it down to individual subjects. You have all adopted a very snobbish attitude and hence have made rafiki6 worry about the choices he has made.

Reply 21

I don't think the league tables are that great, and i don't believe they are correct...like chongy said, the uni's rep may not be the best, but the department of your studies could be very good...you work hard, you succeed...i apologise for this comment but the main problem with this whole student room forum is there are to many naive students who believe the league table as bible...and its mostly the oxbridge rejects who end up in exeter who believe in this tripe

Reply 22

chongy

WOOOOOOO! Someone else who has a bit of sense.

I have done some research into drama rankings (one of my subjects, although im quite handy at english :biggrin:

) and Loughborough comes 36th. Just proves the point that these league tables don't prove much, just that people could be missing out on a great course because they want to get onto one at a more reputable uni (e.g. Loughborough).

Reply 23

peachmelba

League tables mean very little in the end, especially when you break it down to individual subjects. You have all adopted a very snobbish attitude and hence have made rafiki6 worry about the choices he has made.

League tables are a very imperfect guide to the intangible thing called reputation (which is what the OP asked about). One of the things that feeds into reputation is, like it or not league tables, but this happens over a considerable period of time, so fluctuation from one year to next is not all that important. At the department level, it probably matters less unless you are applying for a vocational subject like engineering or law.

Does reputation matter? Well, the evidence is that it has an impact on future earnings and chance of getting a highly paid job - basically for a lifetime. Take a look at this research by economists at the LSE http://cee.lse.ac.uk/cee%20dps/ceedp33.pdf For competitive jobs, employers use uni reputation as a signal of graduate quality. some unis just won't get past the first cut.

I guess for some people that doesn't matter and that uni is only about the social experience and the chance to develop as a person. but i suspect i am not the only one paying tuition fees of £3,000 a year who at least hopes to get a better job as part of the deal.

that's why rafiki6 is absolutely right to gather as much info as possible before making a decision. IF portsmouth's overall reputation is worse than the other choices (and the league tables suggest it might be), that is ONEfactor to take into account before making a decision. The place, the course content and structure, distance from home are just some of the others.

University is university

Sorry to bash you, but I just don't think this is true. They are not all the same. Your experience during and after your degree will be different, depending where you go.

Reply 24

kellywood_5

chongy

If you read my posts properly, I did actually say in one that league tables aren't everything and in another that I don't really trust the Guardian table, but the OP asked whether one of his unis was poor, so I was just trying to answer that question. I think it's naive to say that 'university is university, full stop.' It's not. Do you honestly believe someone with a 1st from TVU is going to have as much chance at getting a top graduate job as someone with a 1st from Oxbridge? The top graduate recruiters specifically recruit graduates from a handful of unis, so reputation is important. I agree that if you work hard and do extras outside of your degree, it's definitely possible to get a very good job regardless of what uni you went to, but it's going to be harder if you went to one that's not respected by employers. The comparison with schools doesn't work. At school level, if you get the same grades in a failing inner city comp as someone who went to a top private school, you're seen as better because you've hard to work harder to overcome difficulties. At uni level, the uni you get into reflects how well you did in your A-levels, so the better the uni, the better you look. I agree that individual subject rankings can differ from overall rankings and that they're certainly worth looking at, but like peachmelba, I believe overall reputation counts for a lot more.

Reply 25

Sasuke!

pjamesg

its true that the legue tables done show everything, BUT how else do employers differentiate from the hundred universitites, they know which ones are good etc, if you were to go to a competitive job, i think that the uni taht you go to has a big impact.

Reply 26

Sasuke!

chongy

Hey dont jump down her throat, i dont think she cares about league tables, she not making it sound like she goes to atop uni is it?, jeez people offer their opinions and people throw it back in your face! if you dont want to hear Kelly's opinion dont read it.

Reply 27

jaroxski

London Met does interviews too and my friend didn't bother with the interview because he just wanted to fill in his sixth choice. He got a unconditional offer anyway.

Reply 28

sunday

I got an offer from Portsmouth too, even though I didn't go to the interview :tongue:

Reply 29

kellywood_5

Death Eater

Thanks

Reply 30

chongy

Death Eater

if you dont want to hear Kelly's opinion dont read it.

Am I reading or listening? :p:

I'm not jumpng down anyone's throat, and I implore you to adopt that what you have said to yourself. You don't like my oppinion...don't read it!!! Simple really isn't it? :biggrin:

I don't have a problem with what Kelly said, I was making a point to all the posts in general. One said "I'd say that UEA and Portsmouth are probably the 'best' of your 6". This really got my back up by highlighting best. Kellywood gave the rankings of the chosen universities. I had absolutely no problem with this at all and I apologise if it came across otherwise, I was merely making a point that overall rankings and departmental rankings can (and are) completely different. Just look at my Loughborough example. :rolleyes:

Now, on a friendlier note: I agree that there is a difference between top uni's (Oxbridge) and some that aren't ranked as highly (Portsmouth) and that will impact on your future jobs. My point was to get to university you have to have a fairly high standard of intelligence (most of the time) and to do so is a massive achievement no matter where you go. Furthermore, (I sound like i'm writing a letter) if a university graduate was to go for a job and there were people who hadn't gone to university then the graduate is far far far more likely to get that job. Just as an Oxbridge graduate would probably get the job over a Portsmouth graduate in a similar situation.

"At uni level, the uni you get into reflects how well you did in your A-levels, so the better the uni, the better you look"

Not true. You could have got four A's yet decided to go to a lower ranked uni due to reasons other than the reputation of it. As Peachmelba said reputation is just one factor. You have to take into account many other things such as convenience (if you want that) distance from home, course content etc. It's all down to what that particular student wants. They may not like the feel of Oxford, for example. Would it be wise, or healthy, for them to spend three years somewhere they don't like just because of reputation?

AND ONE FINAL POINT (you will be relieved to note):

"its true that the legue tables done show everything, BUT how else do employers differentiate from the hundred universitites, they know which ones are good etc, if you were to go to a competitive job, i think that the uni taht you go to has a big impact."

All "good" jobs (use the term very loosely) and the employers will know the best places not by reputation alone (although it would be a major factor) but they will also know (some people don't seem to realise this) the best departments within universities. My mum, is a human recourses manager, and she knows the best places to go to get a degree to do with human resources. It was the nature of her job, and that continues through most industries.

Another example: I come back to the drama one with Loughborough, and say a graduate went onto do a PCGE afterwards and applied for a teaching job. In the interview they will have the head of drama/drama teacher and they will know where the best places to do drama would have been. It would have been all well and good coming to the interview and thinking you are above everyone else because you went to a reputable uni, but would that then translate into you having a superior knowledge of your subject? I was never pushed to apply to places like Loughborough to do my drama degree (I want to teach afterwards) despite the fact I got 3 A's in my AS levels because my teacher was well aware where you could get the best degree for drama, and Loughborough certainly isn't one of them. I currently have my heart set on De Montfort (DO NOT SHOOT ME!!!) who are ranked very very low overall. However, the drama department there is a centre of excellence and the facilities are outstanding. Teaching is good in that particular department. I have offers from uni's that are much higher ranked but I don't want to go to them purely because of their reputations... I want to choose the one that is the best for me, not what is written on a league table.

Another thing if I may. Reputations of universities will constantly change and go up and down, apart from Oxbridge uni's and ones like that, due to their elite status. Who knows, perhaps in twenty years time Portsmouth may be in the top 15 and if this person goes to a job interview they may prefer him because of the ranking of Portsmouth at that time.

Now...can't we all be friends? I wasn't jumping down anyone's throat at all, and i'm sorry if you have misinterpreted what I originally said. :kiss:

Reply 31

kellywood_5

[QUOTE="chongy"]Not true. You could have got four A's yet decided to go to a lower ranked uni due to reasons other than the reputation of it. As Peachmelba said reputation is just one factor. You have to take into account many other things such as convenience (if you want that) distance from home, course content etc. It's all down to what that particular student wants. They may not like the feel of Oxford, for example. Would it be wise, or healthy, for them to spend three years somewhere they don't like just because of reputation?

Point taken, but in general someone who got into a top 10 uni will have done much better in their GCSEs and A-levels than someone who got into a top 80 uni and that's why reputation is important. Also, uni exams aren't standardised public exams like GCSEs and A-levels. They're set and marked internally, so an Oxford exam is going to be much harder than a Portsmouth exam and that's why a first from some unis means a lot more than a first from another. Obviously employers look at GCSEs and A-levels as well, so if someone got straight A*s and straight As, they wouldn't be rejected just for going to Portsmouth because they could obviously have gone somewhere much better if they'd wanted to.

chongy

All "good" jobs (use the term very loosely) and the employers will know the best places not by reputation alone (although it would be a major factor) but they will also know (some people don't seem to realise this) the best departments within universities. My mum, is a human recourses manager, and she knows the best places to go to get a degree to do with human resources. It was the nature of her job, and that continues through most industries.

Another example: I come back to the drama one with Loughborough, and say a graduate went onto do a PCGE afterwards and applied for a teaching job. In the interview they will have the head of drama/drama teacher and they will know where the best places to do drama would have been. It would have been all well and good coming to the interview and thinking you are above everyone else because you went to a reputable uni, but would that then translate into you having a superior knowledge of your subject? I was never pushed to apply to places like Loughborough to do my drama degree (I want to teach afterwards) despite the fact I got 3 A's in my AS levels because my teacher was well aware where you could get the best degree for drama, and Loughborough certainly isn't one of them. I currently have my heart set on De Montfort (DO NOT SHOOT ME!!!) who are ranked very very low overall. However, the drama department there is a centre of excellence and the facilities are outstanding. Teaching is good in that particular department. I have offers from uni's that are much higher ranked but I don't want to go to them purely because of their reputations... I want to choose the one that is the best for me, not what is written on a league table.

Maybe it depends on the subject then. I think the reputation of the department matters more for vocational/practical/creative subjects, eg performing arts, whereas the reputation of the uni as a whole matters more for most academic subjects. That's just my opinion though- I have no evidence to back it up. Good for you about De Montfort. If it has excellent facilities and good teaching for your subject, you'll be happier there than you would be at a uni like Loughborough with not so good facilities and teaching, and if employers know it's a really good uni for drama, that's an added bonus. Good luck in getting an offer :smile:

chongy

Another thing if I may. Reputations of universities will constantly change and go up and down, apart from Oxbridge uni's and ones like that, due to their elite status. Who knows, perhaps in twenty years time Portsmouth may be in the top 15 and if this person goes to a job interview they may prefer him because of the ranking of Portsmouth at that time.

Perhaps that will be the case, but unfortunately there's no way of knowing, so all we have to go on at the moment are league tables and employer preferences.

chongy

Now...can't we all be friends? I wasn't jumping down anyone's throat at all, and i'm sorry if you have misinterpreted what I originally said. :kiss:

Yeah, let's all be friends :smile:

Reply 32

tbtommyb

I just got an offer from UCL, and I was supposed to be waiting for an interview, so it mustn't be that uncommon.

Reply 33

Well i'm glad you 2 sorted out your differences :smile:

Even if both your responses felt like i was reading a book :wink:

Maybe you should collaborate...

Reply 34

Sasuke!

They use past experiences or their own bias, and they look at the quality of your application (ignoring university) - NO graduate employer takes the time to check the ranking of a university (in either the overall tables or the subject tables) before shortlisting/interviewing.

but like you said, from previous expience and people in general know that Oxbridge, ICL, UCL, Greenwich are good universities.

Reply 35

kellywood_5

pjamesg

Well i'm glad you 2 sorted out your differences :smile:

Even if both your responses felt like i was reading a book :wink:

Maybe you should collaborate...

Hey, what can I say, I like essays! :p:

Reply 36

previous experience based on previous employees and how good they were

http://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/events/leaguetables/downloads/EmployerRecruiterPerspective.ppt is worth a read - graduate employers aren't nearly as well informed as people tend to assume on TSR...especially about league tables

Yeah unless your going into investment banking, then i can imagine the reputation of the university isn't a 'MAJOR' concern when in the application process, to be honest even having a degree sometimes doesn't give you the deciding factor. I've been working as an Underwriter for the past 3 years, but when i first applied, they asked for a degree (which i didnt have but still applied), but they gave me benefit of the doubt, gave me an interview and i got the job over a number of graduates....quite ironic now that i'm quitting my job to do a degree but nevermind! :smile:

Reply 37

Sasuke!

oh i was reading the thingy and when it got to the conclusions it stopped lol jst when it wsa saying why employers have "target Universities2
Oh thanks for the Rep Kelly :p: