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Original post by ibzombie96
Corbyn doesn't want a 75% tax rate for the richest. He even said the 70% rate wasn't necessary.


Apologies, I read an Independent article wrong.
Original post by ibzombie96
Corbyn doesn't want a 75% tax rate for the richest. He even said the 70% rate wasn't necessary.



Mr Corbyn says he wants to bring back the 50% tax rate, which applied to those paid £150,000 (roughly the top 1 per cent of earners).He’s also said he would be in favour of going higher if it meant raising more money.


What i was referring to
Original post by Politikal
Disability benefits alone account for £36.7bn.
HB £26bn.

A massive proportion claiming these are mis-claiming (the benefit 'fraud' stats are meaningless as it takes massive man hours and cost to detect fraud and so only a tiny minority are discovered).
The number of people claiming sickness / disability benefits (et alone HB and the rest they claim) is 4 x higher than in 1970. It is preposterous to suppose we've 4 x as sick since then.

All that changed was the sceptical safety net we managed on perfectly well after WW2 became a lifestyle option in later decades.


My contention with the other poster was that he claimed "welfare" was £110bn. Apparently, half of it is made up of pensions from Public Sector Workers.


I don't think disability benefits account for £36.7bn and HB (presuemably Housing Benefit) is not at £26bn.

The 2015 budget shows £28.9bn for Social Exclusion n.e.c which I think includes disability benefit as well as the administration of said benefits. So that's grants for wheelchair ramps and other materials, not limited to cash payments.


Where are you getting your figures from? :confused:
Original post by SotonianOne
Apologies, I read an Independent article wrong.


No worries - it only came out quite recently in an LBC interview
Original post by illegaltobepoor
The reason why the dinosaurs are flapping like chickens is because Jeremy Corbyn listens to the working class and voices their concerns in Parliament. He is a proper MP and not one of the self serving liars we see everyday in the media.

He wants to put into motion economic changes which will favor people at the bottom rather than the top.

Lets talk about housing.

The Winners.
Low Paid Workers, The Local Economy and Local Government

Lets put it this way. If you give a worker a council house they will be paying less rent. There will be a huge sum left over from their income and this will be spent in their local economy because the working class spend 99% of their income.

There will be less need to pay excessive amounts of housing benefit. The housing benefit that does get paid will go to local councils and will be used for creating new council houses and maintaining the remaining council housing stock.

Money is like water. You consume it and then send it on its merry way after your body has used it. It gets used again and again and again.

The Losers.Private Landlords, Estate Agents, Investors and Home Owners.

If we build a huge amount of Council Housing the prices of similar homes in the local vicinity will not gain so much value as they did before. This will put a end to investors parking their money in British property and driving up prices.

The knock on effect will be that Private Landlords will not be able to increase their property rents excessively every year or two in relation to the slow down in house prices. Also the demand for private accommodation will be lower due to tenants switching to council housing and this will mean that private landlords will have to lower their rents to attract tenants.

The Buy to Let market may collapse and this will be bad news for property managers especially estate agents.

.....................................

Basically if Jeremy Corbyn got elected in 2020 as Prime Minister he would make sure Slumlords appear on channel 5 as the real benefit scroungers.

Some Tories are waking up to the fact that they've made a big mistake vouching for Jeremy. He has the potential to unite the whole left-wing and take back voters from UKIP.



I agree with this. He has more credibility than the self-serving career politicians like Liz Kendall, Yvette Cooper and Stella Creasy who speak in vacuous soundbites and propose no real solutions to the problems the working class in this country are facing.
Original post by ibzombie96
Oh my lord, there is literally no limit to how much you guys will complain. He's raised the minimum wage for those above 25 - the majority of workers. The reason he hasn't done so for those under or equal to 25 is that having a 25 year old kid offering to work the same wage as a 35 year old will just price the 25 year old out of the market. If those under 25 are given a much higher wage (and the 'living wage' is a much higher wage than the current minimum), youth unemployment will be much higher.


wtf
Original post by Shqiptare
Jeremy Corbyn tweeted the following:

I believe that homeo-meds works for some ppl and that it compliments 'convential' meds. they both come from organic matter...

He also signed the following petition among several others:

That this House notes that herbal remedies have for centuries made a valuable contribution to healthcare; acknowledges that successive Ministers have hoped that the Traditional Herbal Medicinal Products Directive would provide a safe future legal home for such products as older legislative provisions were withdrawn; is alarmed that only 35 applications for registration under the Directive have been received by the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency, and only 14 registrations granted; fears that many smaller specialist manufacturers are deterred by the prohibitive costs and pharmaceutical testing regimes introduced by the legislation; warns that this risks the loss of thousands of safe and popular herbal remedies when the transitional period expires in 2011; and invites Ministers urgently to intervene to reduce the burdens of regulatory compliance and to persuade the European Union to review the legislation to prevent further damage to the herbal products sector.


Nothing wrong with the original statement - pretty clear that homeopathic treatments can have a placebo effect and so effectively complement treatments that work. As for the petition, I'd note that 'herbal remedies' is a significantly broader category than 'homeopathic treatments'

As I said before, he described Hamas as 'my friends' and denounced placing them on the terrorist list. Perhaps you can clear up any misunderstanding in Corbyn's quest to talk to all sides including those with whom one disagrees, by giving us an example of Corbyn inviting a group of Israeli right-wingers to Westminster and, in the same spirit, introducing them as "friends"?


Corbyn has already addressed the 'my friends' question at some length. For him to have to invite a group of Israeli right-wingers to a discussion to display a concern for open debate, it would have to be the case that he was in the position to at a time where nobody more appropriate (e.g. any politician more right-wing than he) was.

Haaretz is a mainstream centre-left Israeli newspaper. I have no reason do doubt it. But if you want I can link you the entire Appeal's Chamber judgement into Salah's case. See in particular paragraph 57-59.

https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/judgments/ait-decision-mahajna/


Every time I've been shown a Haaretz article it's been poorly-written, loaded with unexplained preconceptions and just basically about as impartial and level-headed as the Express or the Socialist Worker. I don't doubt the Salah point; what I cannot find is an unambiguous statement of support for him (as opposed to an invitation to a discussion etc) from Corbyn, and especially since the events in question occurred. Given he is leading the race to be leader of one of the UK's biggest two parties, I would expect such a statement to be widely reported in the UK, probably by broadsheets.

On the second point, Corbyn signed this petition. The article in question was written by John Pilger, a virulent denier of the crimes of Slobodan Milosevic’s Serbian regime against the Kosovo Albanians. It is little more than a propaganda piece, making a large number of untrue claims and massively downplaying Milosevic's atrocities in Kosovo to around 1/5 of the actual death toll. It even cites former Canadian ambassador James Bissett - an unrepentant defender of Slobodan Milosevic and a denier of both the Srebrenica and Raçak massacres and founder of the extreme right-wing think tank ‘Lord Byron Foundation for Balkan Studies - as well as Milosevic supporter Neil Clark and paid Serbian lobbyist Lewis MacKenzie (although of course Pilger conceals these salient facts about these individuals from his readers).


This, I'm struggling to defend. I would, however, say that this is just one small part of an MP's workload and believe it is possible that Mr Corbyn signed the petition without knowing much about the subject, or even perhaps having read the article. I would appreciate a more recent affirmation of his position on the subject. Also FWIW, I think this is veeeeeeeeeeeeeery far from adopting a pro-Milosevic position per se.
He does talk in a refreshingly honest and straight forward manner, far removed from the anti septic autobot prescriptions employed by Cooper etal.

However, he is not on the side of GENUINE fairness, he doesn't even know what fairness means. Like so many from the bourgeoisie left he has an outdated, quaint notion of fairness that delivers freebies and short cuts to the cunning, the criminal and the loafer.
Original post by Politikal
He does talk in a refreshingly honest and straight forward manner, far removed from the anti septic autobot prescriptions employed by Cooper etal.

However, he is not on the side of GENUINE fairness, he doesn't even know what fairness means. Like so many from the bourgeoisie left he has an outdated, quaint notion of fairness that delivers freebies and short cuts to the cunning, the criminal and the loafer.


I mean, at the very least 'fairness' has got to include equality of opportunity, which cannot be achieved without equality of outcome (see studies into correlations between wealth of a household and academic success even within the state sector).
Original post by TheDefiniteArticle


I mean, at the very least 'fairness' has got to include equality of opportunity, which cannot be achieved without equality of outcome



An impossibility I'm afraid.
Reply 70
He's a far leftist, even leftists should be able to admit he is un-electable.
Original post by footstool1924
Woah, Woah! Slow down there a bit. £110bn? That's how much our Welfare bill is? That's bloody huge.

Actually, £55bn of that is through local government social protection n.e.c and is wholly made up of Social Protection (LKSOP) which according to some people (there is no official confirmation) that this is pensions paid to nurses, police officers and other people which is not really "welfare", is it?

That means that the actual welfare bill is actually £55bn (give or take a few bn).

Unemployment is only £3.5bn so let's just say that the whole of that gets cut out.

Full employment does not equate to full time work. In fact, most of all the jobs that will be created will probably be part-time work. Housing, families and children will therefore be reduced but not by much.

Out of the £20bn, it will most likely be around £5bn at best.

Taking all that into account, we probably would save around £8-£10bn.


But, 20% (5.4million) of all jobs are in the public sector so the unemployment of 1.86m would be split along similar lines. That is an extra 400,000 people working as nurses, police officers, teachers, etc etc.

These people would also need pensions so if we were to split the current pension bill (£55bn) by public sector employees, that would give an average of £10200. Multiply this by the amount of people going into the Public Sector and your pension bills would rise to the tune of around £5bn.


Overall, your plan of full employment would result in a net saving of a maximum of £3bn-£5bn*.

*Crude figures were used so take it with a pinch of salt.



Err, you might want to revise that in light of the information above...


They wouldn't need to go into the public sector if we had more competitive corporation tax.

The £55bn local Government is STILL part of the welfare bill. Savings would be much more than you suggest if there were full private sector employment with no further expansion of the public sector.
Original post by slade p
He's a far leftist, even leftists should be able to admit he is un-electable.



Yes, another leftist that cannot comprehend Human reality, and so surplants it with impossible idealism.

REALITY;

+ Lefty wants to take out an ISA for her childs future needs
+ She shops around for best returning ISA's
+ Best returning ISA's own shares in corporations
+ ISA trustees on behalf of the lefty client ensure those corporations maximise profits so as to meet the expectation of the lefty ISA client
+ Lefty happily accrues wealth under the ISA and yet marches with Occupy against capitalism

Interchange ISA and Pension to witness the same tension at the core of lefty idealism
Original post by Cadherin
They wouldn't need to go into the public sector if we had more competitive corporation tax.


What rate would you suggest is "competitive"?

The £55bn local Government is STILL part of the welfare bill. Savings would be much more than you suggest if there were full private sector employment with no further expansion of the public sector.


Utter tripe. I don't think anyone considers public sector pensions to be "welfare".
Original post by Катя
wtf


Ah, another intelligent comment.

This analysis is so basic it doesn't even really qualify as a particular economic theory. If you dramatically raise the minimum wage for all people, there will be many under 25s who are willing to work for less if it means they can get a job, who will be legally prevented from offering to work for less. Employers, faced with a 25 year old and a 35 year old who charge the same living wage, will always go for the more experienced person. Keeping 25 year olds and younger on a lower minimum wage keeps them competitive in the labour market and keeps them, therefore, in employment. It's really not that hard.
Original post by footstool1924
What rate would you suggest is "competitive"?

Utter tripe. I don't think anyone considers public sector pensions to be "welfare".


The state pension is part of the welfare budget.
Original post by Rakas21
The state pension is part of the welfare budget.


Why not cut the State Pension aspect of it then?
Original post by slade p
He's a far leftist, even leftists should be able to admit he is un-electable.


Then why has he increased his majority in his constituency in the general election. And how on earth do you explain SNP surge in scotland if everyone has supposedly moved to the centre. How do you explain popularity behind Green party movement...

Labour came to the general election on the Tory lite platform. That's what they were offering. And they lost. They lost their core traditional vote to UKIP and indeed to the Tories because at least those parties are honest about what they are. The number of people in the Labour party who abstained on the welfare bill shows what the labour party is now...a political party who do not give a **** about the most vulnerable in our society. Corbyn is one of the few who represents the grassroots labour movement and isn't a vacuous bobble-head like Burnham, Tristram Hunt, Stella Creasy and Liz Kendall.
Original post by ibzombie96
Ah, another intelligent comment.

This analysis is so basic it doesn't even really qualify as a particular economic theory. If you dramatically raise the minimum wage for all people, there will be many under 25s who are willing to work for less if it means they can get a job, who will be legally prevented from offering to work for less. Employers, faced with a 25 year old and a 35 year old who charge the same living wage, will always go for the more experienced person. Keeping 25 year olds and younger on a lower minimum wage keeps them competitive in the labour market and keeps them, therefore, in employment. It's really not that hard.


Then award pay based on experience, not age. Imagine 35 year old and a 25 year old starting out in the same industry with 0 previous experience - why give the old guy more money just because he is old?

"Keeping 25 year olds and younger on a lower minimum wage keeps them competitive" - you mean keeps them claiming tax credits and housing benefits because they can't afford to survive on pittance pay? Bless.
Reply 79
Original post by YellowWallpaper
Then why has he increased his majority in his constituency in the general election. And how on earth do you explain SNP surge in scotland if everyone has supposedly moved to the centre. How do you explain popularity behind Green party movement...

Labour came to the general election on the Tory lite platform. That's what they were offering. And they lost. They lost their core traditional vote to UKIP and indeed to the Tories because at least those parties are honest about what they are. The number of people in the Labour party who abstained on the welfare bill shows what the labour party is now...a political party who do not give a **** about the most vulnerable in our society. Corbyn is one of the few who represents the grassroots labour movement and isn't a vacuous bobble-head like Burnham, Tristram Hunt, Stella Creasy and Liz Kendall.


Leftism is strong in Scotland but not England as a whole.

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