Rape Culture Does Not Exist
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If we lived in a rape culture, then there would be no prosecutions for rape.
If you want to know about an actual rape culture, think ancient Rome where you could rape your wife, your slaves and even your children. The only offense was to rape another man's property/wife/children. That is a rape culture.
To call our modern culture a rape culture is ludicrous and hysterical
If you want to know about an actual rape culture, think ancient Rome where you could rape your wife, your slaves and even your children. The only offense was to rape another man's property/wife/children. That is a rape culture.
To call our modern culture a rape culture is ludicrous and hysterical
Original post by BefuddledPenguin
I'd argue that we live in the most anti-rape culture that has ever existed
It's really a red herring to say this. We live in the least racist, most equal era that has ever existed, but that's because all the other eras were really, really ****ty in that regard and not because we don't have anything to improve anymore. There was the sexual aggression study which showed that all you have to do is call sex where one participant is unwilling and 3x as many men become OK with it as opposed to calling it rape. I don't really care if you call that "rape culture" or not, but it's pretty dumb to just do what people are doing in this thread and saying "oh well rape is illegal now what are women complaining about?"
Original post by FoalingAround
If we lived in a rape culture, then there would be no prosecutions for rape.
If you want to know about an actual rape culture, think ancient Rome where you could rape your wife, your slaves and even your children. The only offense was to rape another man's property/wife/children. That is a rape culture.
To call our modern culture a rape culture is ludicrous and hysterical
If you want to know about an actual rape culture, think ancient Rome where you could rape your wife, your slaves and even your children. The only offense was to rape another man's property/wife/children. That is a rape culture.
To call our modern culture a rape culture is ludicrous and hysterical
Should we really be setting our standards off what the ancient Romans did?
I guess nowadays a wrongly convicted prisoner has nothing to complain about. After all, it's not like we fed him to a lion.
Original post by DiddyDec
Anyone that believes that the west has a rape culture is not worth listening to.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
All feminists then. That's OK, I never listened to them anyway. Only for a laugh.
The fact is this: culture is not "what happens", but what is conducted by the wise folk of the tribe. Culture stems from what society deems appropriate and is then spread. Have you ever heard anybody claim rape is good? Has anybody told you that? No! Why? Because it's socially unacceptable and immoral. Some put it above murder because it leaves scars.
No, we do not live in a culture which encourages or promotes rape. We have, in fact, entered an era of hyper-consent laws in which people cannot interact with one another without agreeing that they agreed they wished to interact with one another. It's bizarre really, because it is so unnatural. There has to be a middle ground between rape and "yes means yes".
Original post by HigherMinion
The fact is this: culture is not "what happens", but what is conducted by the wise folk of the tribe. Culture stems from what society deems appropriate and is then spread. Have you ever heard anybody claim rape is good? Has anybody told you that? No! Why?
Yes actually. This is TSR so I'm not sure if I should be surprised you're so sheltered you've never met anyone who would say that blatantly or indirectly.
Original post by SmashConcept
Yes actually. This is TSR so I'm not sure if I should be surprised you're so sheltered you've never met anyone who would say that blatantly or indirectly.
Indirectly, huh? What are we talking, a smirk and sarky "i'll be raping her as soon as I get a chance"? or what?
Because whenever something actually happens, the men who rape are shunned from society and castigated. When women do it, they don't seem to get much more than a telling off unless it was with a pupil, as it so often is. But the men are shunned even by other men.
Do tell me how you've had this promotion put to you in your street-wise circles offline.
Original post by HigherMinion
Indirectly, huh? What are we talking, a smirk and sarky "i'll be raping her as soon as I get a chance"? or what?
Because whenever something actually happens, the men who rape are shunned from society and castigated. When women do it, they don't seem to get much more than a telling off unless it was with a pupil, as it so often is. But the men are shunned even by other men.
Do tell me how you've had this promotion put to you in your street-wise circles offline.
Because whenever something actually happens, the men who rape are shunned from society and castigated. When women do it, they don't seem to get much more than a telling off unless it was with a pupil, as it so often is. But the men are shunned even by other men.
Do tell me how you've had this promotion put to you in your street-wise circles offline.
The idea that every rapist is punished judicially is just astoundingly niave. It's a notoriously difficult crime to prosecute because there aren't usually witnesses and forensically most rapes look the same as consensual sex. And the idea that most people are shunned from society is even more ridiculous. For knifepoint street rapes, yeah, but they represent a low percentage of actual rapes.
In terms of where I've heard that kind of attitude offline, it's fairly prevalent in the blue collar jobs I work in (along with outright racism). I've heard some other stuff from guys who came from really poor black neighbourhoods in the USA too.
Original post by SmashConcept
Yes actually. This is TSR so I'm not sure if I should be surprised you're so sheltered you've never met anyone who would say that blatantly or indirectly.
It would be fallacious to assume that any anecdotes from your own life you could provide are somehow representative of "rape culture" in the UK as a whole.
It's also a stretch to imply that the UK has a rape "culture" because of a few certain distasteful comments you heard whilst you were walking around the hood.
Anecdotal evidence is a common logic fallacy. Please do not use it.
Original post by SmashConcept
The idea that every rapist is punished judicially is just astoundingly niave. It's a notoriously difficult crime to prosecute because there aren't usually witnesses and forensically most rapes look the same as consensual sex. And the idea that most people are shunned from society is even more ridiculous. For knifepoint street rapes, yeah, but they represent a low percentage of actual rapes.
In terms of where I've heard that kind of attitude offline, it's fairly prevalent in the blue collar jobs I work in (along with outright racism). I've heard some other stuff from guys who came from really poor black neighbourhoods in the USA too.
The idea that every rapist is punished judicially is just astoundingly niave. It's a notoriously difficult crime to prosecute because there aren't usually witnesses and forensically most rapes look the same as consensual sex. And the idea that most people are shunned from society is even more ridiculous. For knifepoint street rapes, yeah, but they represent a low percentage of actual rapes.
In terms of where I've heard that kind of attitude offline, it's fairly prevalent in the blue collar jobs I work in (along with outright racism). I've heard some other stuff from guys who came from really poor black neighbourhoods in the USA too.
If you are hearing that kind of thing from your colleagues, why aren't you calling them out on it? Why aren't you helping to stigmatise rape promotion when it's brought up among them? Instead, you moan that we live in a rape culture. Well I've got news for you: you're letting it happen (to the extent that you think it exists).
I never said every rapist is punished judicially- it is ridiculous to assert that for the reasons you stated. It is difficult to find evidence and witnesses to such a private act. The thing is, I really don't care about marital "rape" because this term is used to further divide sex relations and destroy any integrity marriage still has. The belief of liberals that "once you're married you're free to rape" is a pure fantasy. The women have just as much autonomy in marriage as they do outside; they chose their husband and they chose their circumstances. It is up to both of them to make their household tolerable to live in, not the law.
The other port of call for you is the "one night stand" drunk rapes. The women who call rape on these are being disingenuous 90% of the time- they wanted sex, they had a choice not to get drunk or get in that taxi. The law is not here to reserve womens dignity or mollycoddle them when they do something socially uncouth, but to distribute blind justice whenever the occasion arises. One night stands and supporting "slut culture" is not justice.
Original post by Cup o' Tea
It would be fallacious to assume that any anecdotes from your own life you could provide are somehow representative of "rape culture" in the UK as a whole.
It's also a stretch to imply that the UK has a rape "culture" because of a few certain distasteful comments you heard whilst you were walking around the hood.
Anecdotal evidence is a common logic fallacy. Please do not use it.
It's also a stretch to imply that the UK has a rape "culture" because of a few certain distasteful comments you heard whilst you were walking around the hood.
Anecdotal evidence is a common logic fallacy. Please do not use it.
As you did when we talked in your other thread, you're betraying a fairly poor grasp of logic here. I'm not saying rape culture exists because of my own experiences, I actually posted them as a direct answer to someone asking if anyone had experienced that kind of thing. As it happens, my experiences are such that the academic studies on "rape culture" (again, I'm not arguing one way or the other or actually calling it that) are entirely plausible.
Original post by HigherMinion
If you are hearing that kind of thing from your colleagues, why aren't you calling them out on it? Why aren't you helping to stigmatise rape promotion when it's brought up among them? Instead, you moan that we live in a rape culture. Well I've got news for you: you're letting it happen (to the extent that you think it exists).
At first I was surprised that you took it upon yourself to form an opinion on how I've participated in various conversations about rape even though I didn't tell you. Reading the rest of your post, it seems as though pulling opinions out of your arse is standard operating procedure for you though, so don't worry about it.
I never said every rapist is punished judicially- it is ridiculous to assert that for the reasons you stated. It is difficult to find evidence and witnesses to such a private act. The thing is, I really don't care about marital "rape" because this term is used to further divide sex relations and destroy any integrity marriage still has. The belief of liberals that "once you're married you're free to rape" is a pure fantasy. The women have just as much autonomy in marriage as they do outside; they chose their husband and they chose their circumstances. It is up to both of them to make their household tolerable to live in, not the law.
I don't really have a response to this, other than that the logical conclusion is that you don't think the law should intervene in domestic violence either. I'm only really quoting it so that the other people who keep parrotting that feminism is stupid or whatever can see the kind of person they're aligning themselves with.
The other port of call for you is the "one night stand" drunk rapes. The women who call rape on these are being disingenuous 90% of the time- they wanted sex, they had a choice not to get drunk or get in that taxi. The law is not here to reserve womens dignity or mollycoddle them when they do something socially uncouth, but to distribute blind justice whenever the occasion arises. One night stands and supporting "slut culture" is not justice.
Your made up idea that rape is over-reported by 90% is in stark contravention of the actual data from actual surveys saying it's under-reported by about 70%. And the idea that 90% of women are lying is an unknown figure, higher than twice that of the most MRA friendly estimate and over 11 times higher than the FBI's estimate that around 8% of accusations are unfounded. I'm sure you're going to attack these studies and like all studies there are critiques to make, but I doubt you're going to be able to provide any compelling reason why the intuition of a fringe lunatic (which is what you are) is any more reliable.
Original post by ivybridge
It appears that virtually all of you don't understand what is meant by rape culture.
Enlighten us.
Rape doesn't have to be legal for a "rape culture" to exist.
It's about the social laxity in policing and prosecuting rapists. Conviction rates are falling despite an increase in the number of reported rapes. Despite the fact that of the 15 670 incidents reported to police in 2012 only 35 were found to be false allegations.
You don't have to explicitly say "rape is ok" for it to be a cultural problem.
And men should be horrified that people even consider the idea of a "rape culture" existing, or the argument that "men can't control their urges", because it lowers all men to the level of potential rapists. Which they are not.
It's about the social laxity in policing and prosecuting rapists. Conviction rates are falling despite an increase in the number of reported rapes. Despite the fact that of the 15 670 incidents reported to police in 2012 only 35 were found to be false allegations.
You don't have to explicitly say "rape is ok" for it to be a cultural problem.
And men should be horrified that people even consider the idea of a "rape culture" existing, or the argument that "men can't control their urges", because it lowers all men to the level of potential rapists. Which they are not.
(edited 8 years ago)
Rape culture does exist, even in the west. Rape seems to be normalised by porn industries hugely, media has an impact, online forums show signs of it, yes even TSR. Rape seems to be blurred here and there every now and again, which further proves rape culture is still in existence. Now linking to the extremities of feminism just to deny rape culture pisses me off greatly!
Original post by SmashConcept
As you did when we talked in your other thread, you're betraying a fairly poor grasp of logic here. I'm not saying rape culture exists because of my own experiences, I actually posted them as a direct answer to someone asking if anyone had experienced that kind of thing. As it happens, my experiences are such that the academic studies on "rape culture" (again, I'm not arguing one way or the other or actually calling it that) are entirely plausible.
You're providing anecdotes from your own life as a way of arguing that rape culture "may" exist. You also implied that people who've been "sheltered" have probably not been exposed to this elusive "rape culture" purely because they've been sheltered. That is a no true Scotsman fallacy.
Your arguments are pretty much a feeble stew of logical fallacies, and you stack more and more fallacies on top with subsequent posts. Who has a poor grasp of logic then?
Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes
Rape culture does exist, even in the west. Rape seems to be normalised by porn industries hugely, media has an impact, online forums show signs of it, yes even TSR. Rape seems to be blurred here and there every now and again, which further proves rape culture is still in existence. Now linking to the extremities of feminism just to deny rape culture pisses me off greatly!
Erm, what do you mean by "normalised" exactly?
Original post by Drunken Bard
In all my years I have never heard anyone actually the phrase "She deserved to be raped"
I have, I have read stories online which have claimed the rapist said those exact words. One story where the rapist has actually said it on camera on a documentary called 'Indias daughter' if you want to see; he openly expressed that she "needed to learn a lesson" and that she "shouldn't have fought back and let it happen to her". Yes it was in the east, but I have no doubt beliefs like that exist in the west. If victim blaming still exits then parallel to that would be she that 'deserved it'.
Original post by Cup o' Tea
Erm, what do you mean by "normalised" exactly?
Well a few days ago there was thread on here about would you hit a woman or rape a woman? Something along those lines, it doesn't directly normalise behaviour, I'm sure no guy reading it would think "Okay I'm going out to rape someone" but getting people to answer it, balancing it out, it normalises the situation, rape loses it's vile meaning when it's challenged by another crime. That's just one example, another would be porn, the gang rape scenes. the reluctance scenes etc, people seeking enjoyment from rape scenes normalises it, it becomes an enjoyable act, a fetish perhaps, it's no longer seen as a vile crime against a person.
Original post by Cup o' Tea
You're providing anecdotes from your own life as a way of arguing that rape culture "may" exist. You also implied that people who've been "sheltered" have probably not been exposed to this elusive "rape culture" purely because they've been sheltered. That is a no true Scotsman fallacy.
Your arguments are pretty much a feeble stew of logical fallacies, and you stack more and more fallacies on top with subsequent posts. Who has a poor grasp of logic then?
Your arguments are pretty much a feeble stew of logical fallacies, and you stack more and more fallacies on top with subsequent posts. Who has a poor grasp of logic then?
At this point I just don't think you understand what a logical fallacy is. I have explained exactly why I provided the anecdotes - because the poster I replied to specifically asked for them.
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