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Rape Culture Does Not Exist

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Original post by SmashConcept


I don't really have a response to this, other than that the logical conclusion is that you don't think the law should intervene in domestic violence either. I'm only really quoting it so that the other people who keep parrotting that feminism is stupid or whatever can see the kind of person they're aligning themselves with.


I think he's saying the government shouldn't be intervening in what two willing, married individuals are doing in their own household. He's not saying it's okay for a man to rape his wife (or vice versa).

Original post by SmashConcept
Your made up idea that rape is over-reported by 90% is in stark contravention of the actual data from actual surveys saying it's under-reported by about 70%. And the idea that 90% of women are lying is an unknown figure, higher than twice that of the most MRA friendly estimate and over 11 times higher than the FBI's estimate that around 8% of accusations are unfounded. I'm sure you're going to attack these studies and like all studies there are critiques to make, but I doubt you're going to be able to provide any compelling reason why the intuition of a fringe lunatic (which is what you are) is any more reliable.


His 90% figure was probably figurative (and for one night stands rather than all rapes)...
Original post by Dandaman1
I think he's saying the government shouldn't be intervening in what two willing, married individuals are doing in their own household. He's not saying it's okay for a man to rape his wife (or vice versa).

I mean he specifically said that he didn't care if a man rapes his wife soooo.....

His 90% figure was probably figurative (and for one night stands rather than all rapes)...

Yes, if his entire post was a metaphor and he actually meant the opposite of all the things he wrote then he would seem like a fairly intelligent guy :yy:
Reply 42
Original post by SmashConcept
At this point I just don't think you understand what a logical fallacy is. I have explained exactly why I provided the anecdotes - because the poster I replied to specifically asked for them.


Lol the user in question was speaking rhetorically.

I'm having difficulty placing you. You're either a troll with an exceptional amount of cunning or just an imbecile. Probably the latter. :lol:
Original post by Cup o' Tea
Lol the user in question was speaking rhetorically.

.... because he didn't think people would be able to provide any anecdotes...

I'm having difficulty placing you. You're either a troll with an exceptional amount of cunning or just an imbecile. Probably the latter. :lol:

I'm having no difficulty placing you.
Original post by SmashConcept
As you did when we talked in your other thread, you're betraying a fairly poor grasp of logic here. I'm not saying rape culture exists because of my own experiences, I actually posted them as a direct answer to someone asking if anyone had experienced that kind of thing. As it happens, my experiences are such that the academic studies on "rape culture" (again, I'm not arguing one way or the other or actually calling it that) are entirely plausible.


At first I was surprised that you took it upon yourself to form an opinion on how I've participated in various conversations about rape even though I didn't tell you. Reading the rest of your post, it seems as though pulling opinions out of your arse is standard operating procedure for you though, so don't worry about it.


I don't really have a response to this, other than that the logical conclusion is that you don't think the law should intervene in domestic violence either. I'm only really quoting it so that the other people who keep parrotting that feminism is stupid or whatever can see the kind of person they're aligning themselves with.


Your made up idea that rape is over-reported by 90% is in stark contravention of the actual data from actual surveys saying it's under-reported by about 70%. And the idea that 90% of women are lying is an unknown figure, higher than twice that of the most MRA friendly estimate and over 11 times higher than the FBI's estimate that around 8% of accusations are unfounded. I'm sure you're going to attack these studies and like all studies there are critiques to make, but I doubt you're going to be able to provide any compelling reason why the intuition of a fringe lunatic (which is what you are) is any more reliable.


Listen, if you have no evidence of domestic violence or rape, guess what? You cannot prosecute. Unless you are willing to remove that barrier, and suggest that we do not have to presume innocence until guilt is proven? Your Independent article suggests that so many women are raped by their husbands, but they don't know it (!) - are we to infer from this that they didn't say no?

The single type of rape that goes under-reported are family/friends. The majority of these thug lyfe one-night stand rapes are fabrications and second thoughts from the women. Hell, even Mattress Girl and the UAV rape hoax has my back on this. Time and time again women are reporting rapes to retain some kind of morality, but they are long past that.

Original post by Dandaman1
I think he's saying the government shouldn't be intervening in what two willing, married individuals are doing in their own household. He's not saying it's okay for a man to rape his wife (or vice versa).His 90% figure was probably figurative (and for one night stands rather than all rapes)...
The 90% figure was figurative, yes. Sounds better than saying "the vast majority". Also, what I meant about the first bit was that if there is no way of proving either party's crime, then the justice system cannot proceed. If it's legitimately a problem for either of them, they can break the partnership/marriage. Nothing stopping them except their own psyche (learned helplessness is an internal problem, not a social one).
Original post by Cup o' Tea
Lol the user in question was speaking rhetorically.


I actually was not. I was asking sincerely for the context and extent of his discussions and dealings with youths who were "pro-rape". He delivered some weak sauce, but it was to be expected.
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 45
Original post by SmashConcept
.... because he didn't think people would be able to provide any anecdotes...


I'm having no difficulty placing you.


Aye but anecdotes are a logical fallacy. Whether you knew this or not, you offered them up just because you were asked to, and as a result you weakened your position. You're an imbecile.

I'm relieved you've finally found something on TSR that hasn't presented you with immense difficulty. Tell me, Smash Concept, where have you placed me? :lol:
Original post by Lwin
Rape doesn't have to be legal for a "rape culture" to exist.
It's about the social laxity in policing and prosecuting rapists. Conviction rates are falling despite an increase in the number of reported rapes. Despite the fact that of the 15 670 incidents reported to police in 2012 only 35 were found to be false allegations.
You don't have to explicitly say "rape is ok" for it to be a cultural problem.
And men should be horrified that people even consider the idea of a "rape culture" existing, or the argument that "men can't control their urges", because it lowers all men to the level of potential rapists. Which they are not.


Could you cite your source showing reported rapes are increasing? Even if they are, you can't take a 'reported rape' as an actual rape - only those where guilt was actually determined. Simply because guilt cannot be determined in most cases does not mean we live in a rape culture; it means we follow something called due process and the principle of 'innocent until proven guilty.' You'd need to prove that more guilty people are actually being let off due to laxity. However, all the crime statistics we have show that confirmed rapes (instances where a party has been determined guilty and convicted) are declining in number, and these judicial statistics are the only reliable sources from which we can ascertain guilt, so there's no way for you to support your claim (unless you know better than all the courts did and have proof that you do).

False rape accusation statistics vary hugely, from 2-40% depending on government agency or peer reviewed study. Nobody actually knows how many there are, especially as most reports do not have a definitive result - many of these could have also been false, but remain unknown.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Cup o' Tea
Aye but anecdotes are a logical fallacy

You keep saying this and I really don't think you know what it means. Anecdotes are not a logical fallacy, they are anecdotes.
Original post by SmashConcept
I mean he specifically said that he didn't care if a man rapes his wife soooo.....


That's not strictly what he said, though, is it?
Original post by Dandaman1
That's not strictly what he said, though, is it?

Yes.
Reply 50
Original post by SmashConcept
You keep saying this and I really don't think you know what it means. Anecdotes are not a logical fallacy, they are anecdotes.


I really don't think you know where you are or what day it is.
Original post by SmashConcept
Yes.


His response to me:

"Also, what I meant about the first bit was that if there is no way of proving either party's crime, then the justice system cannot proceed. If it's legitimately a problem for either of them, they can break the partnership/marriage. Nothing stopping them except their own psyche (learned helplessness is an internal problem, not a social one)."

Make of that what you will (or ask him yourself). To me, however, it doesn't sound like he "doesn't care" if a man actually rapes his wife, rather that he disputes some aspects of the phenomenon.
Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes
Rape culture does exist, even in the west. Rape seems to be normalised by porn industries hugely, media has an impact, online forums show signs of it, yes even TSR. Rape seems to be blurred here and there every now and again, which further proves rape culture is still in existence. Now linking to the extremities of feminism just to deny rape culture pisses me off greatly!


Not because a fairly high number of people fantasize about such fantasies...

Trust me, it isn't the porn industry creating it, my ex used to read rape erotic literature and she loved it. You have loads of women who love the whole kidnapping and rape fantasy, bondage (which is a lesser extension of rape fantasy etc).

Most of the time it's women engaging in those fantasies, not men.

By your logic, those very same women are creating a rape culture in western society.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Colour Me Pretty
It doesn't have to be explicitly said. For example, if a girl wears a short skirt and guys try and chat her up or cat call her etc then a common response would be "Well if you want men to leave you alone then you shouldn't wear clothes like that" or something along those lines. The blame is taken from the men who should exercise self control and put onto the woman. That's what feminists mean when they talk about a rape culture.


Posted from TSR Mobile


None of what you described is rape though.
Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes
I have, I have read stories online which have claimed the rapist said those exact words. One story where the rapist has actually said it on camera on a documentary called 'Indias daughter' if you want to see; he openly expressed that she "needed to learn a lesson" and that she "shouldn't have fought back and let it happen to her". Yes it was in the east, but I have no doubt beliefs like that exist in the west. If victim blaming still exits then parallel to that would be she that 'deserved it'.


And murderers are constantly saying that their victims deserved it.

Do we now live in a "Murder culture"?

Of course not, the words of one sick individual do not equate to the rest of society.
Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes
Well a few days ago there was thread on here about would you hit a woman or rape a woman? Something along those lines, it doesn't directly normalise behaviour, I'm sure no guy reading it would think "Okay I'm going out to rape someone" but getting people to answer it, balancing it out, it normalises the situation, rape loses it's vile meaning when it's challenged by another crime. That's just one example, another would be porn, the gang rape scenes. the reluctance scenes etc, people seeking enjoyment from rape scenes normalises it, it becomes an enjoyable act, a fetish perhaps, it's no longer seen as a vile crime against a person.


And what about violent films and video games? The amount of violence in those forms of media is obscene and constantly has people being shot to pieces, murder is the most abhorrent crime one can commit.

Does this mean everyone who watches violent films is going to go out and commit a murder spree?

No, because the vast majority of people are able to acknowledge that it's fiction, and the same goes for porn, alot of men watch porn; ALOT, are they all now indoctrinated with the view that rape is somehow okay?

Of course not.
Original post by Drunken Bard
And what about violent films and video games? The amount of violence in those forms of media is obscene and constantly has people being shot to pieces, murder is the most abhorrent crime one can commit.

Does this mean everyone who watches violent films is going to go out and commit a murder spree?

No, because the vast majority of people are able to acknowledge that it's fiction, and the same goes for porn, alot of men watch porn; ALOT, are they all now indoctrinated with the view that rape is somehow okay?

Of course not.


I made it quite clear that I didn't believe everyone reading that was going to go out and rape someone, I was talking about the affects or normalising rape in such a way.
Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes
I made it quite clear that I didn't believe everyone reading that was going to go out and rape someone, I was talking about the affects or normalising rape in such a way.


And I was pointing out how murder is normalised in the same way to a much larger extent, yet it isn't an issue because unless you are mentally ill you know what is right and what is wrong.
Original post by Drunken Bard
And I was pointing out how murder is normalised in the same way to a much larger extent, yet it isn't an issue because unless you are mentally ill you know what is right and what is wrong.


Well murder isn't equal to rape anyway, rape more often then not leaves a victim living with all the scars and memories. Also there is no murder porn for people to seek enjoyment out of every night. It's such a typical response to balance one crime against another, don't even bother. We are talking about rape culture here and yes it does exist.

Also to your earlier murder games post, I never said everyone will go out and rape someone, but I have no doubt the internet normalises rape, I have read threads on here reading "was I raped?" which just goes to show how much rape can be normalised and blurred.
Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes
Well murder isn't equal to rape anyway, rape more often then not leaves a victim living with all the scars and memories. Also there is no murder porn for people to seek enjoyment out of every night. It's such a typical response to balance one crime against another, don't even bother. We are talking about rape culture here and yes it does exist.

Also to your earlier murder games post, I never said everyone will go out and rape someone, but I have no doubt the internet normalises rape, I have read threads on here reading "was I raped?" which just goes to show how much rape can be normalised and blurred.


Rape is not worse than murder.

I'm sorry, it just isn't, taking another's life is the ultimate crime.

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