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Is Multicultural Europe beginning to fracture?

The other day Hungary's PM made a "rivers of blood speech"

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/30/viktor-orban-fidesz-hungary-prime-minister-europe-neo-nazi

Although the Guardian may be a little sensationalist in it's title, I think this is a question worth asking.

Yes we know many people have their issues with the multicultural society, however up until now it's mainly remained on the fringe, Now we have a PM of a nation condemning the multiracial society.

We have seen other groups such as Golden Dawn in Greece and the Front Nationale in France gaining a lot of support in recent years for similar reasons as well.

Could we see a second wave of Fascism as a direct result of forced integration?

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Is it 'forced integration' or is it what generally happens after a major recession?

I think it's the latter. It'll pass. People have been predicting the EU to fail since it's inception- it's still going strong. Even Greeks are overwhelmingly pro EU and even euro.
Original post by Drunken Bard
The other day Hungary's PM made a "rivers of blood speech"

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/30/viktor-orban-fidesz-hungary-prime-minister-europe-neo-nazi

Although the Guardian may be a little sensationalist in it's title, I think this is a question worth asking.

Yes we know many people have their issues with the multicultural society, however up until now it's mainly remained on the fringe, Now we have a PM of a nation condemning the multiracial society.

We have seen other groups such as Golden Dawn in Greece and the Front Nationale in France gaining a lot of support in recent years for similar reasons as well.

Could we see a second wave of Fascism as a direct result of forced integration?


What on earth is the problem with a
Statement like this. Imagine that you're wearing some strange glasses that make you see the world in a funny way. Now symbolise taking off the glasses.

Now read the statement the Hungarian PM made just as a matter of fact statement without any prejudices:


“What we have at stake today is Europe, the European way of life, the survival or disappearance of European values and nations, or their transformation beyond recognition … We would like Europeto be preserved for the Europeans. But there is something we would not just like but we want because it only depends on us: we want to preserve a Hungarian Hungary.”


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Reply 3
Avatar for sdotd
sdotd
17
i like this hungary prime minister
Original post by SotonianFour
Possibly, but more likely to do with lack of prosperity.


Why? Merkel said multiculturalism had failed in 2010.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11559451
Original post by MatureStudent36
Why? Merkel said multiculturalism had failed in 2010.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11559451


And she hardly received any backlash.

In the UK however, any doubt in multiculturalism makes you a new age Enoch Powell.

It is annoying how judgemental the left is in this country.
Large scale human migration happened quite frequently in history. Usually the factions that refuse the entry of migrants end up the worst off.
Reply 7
Avatar for Rakas21
Rakas21
21
The answer to thread title is no. Off the top of my head there is no nation that looks like it might seriously leave the EU willingly bar the UK (and even that's doubtful).

I do agree somewhat that non-EU migration should be curtailed to a large degree in many European nations.
Anyone who thinks multi culturalism is a success needs their head examined. I will take London as an example. People like to consider it 'multi-cultural'. Yet you only have to look at the statistics. Forget the boroughs but on a smaller scale each community is very segregated. You will see the Indian community form predominately on their own, you will see the Muslim community form predominately on its own, the same can be said for the white English, the Eastern European and black African communities. The borough statiscts may look like its multi cultural but on the ground everyone relatively sticks with their own. Southall is a great example, you will be lucky to see a single white person.

We have been forced to integrate but instead have only become more segregated.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Davij038
Is it 'forced integration' or is it what generally happens after a major recession?

I think it's the latter. It'll pass. People have been predicting the EU to fail since it's inception- it's still going strong. Even Greeks are overwhelmingly pro EU and even euro.


This.

I'm Hungarian so I know what these neo-Nazis aka Jobbik are actually like, sometimes when I read Western media reports on politics from my country it is extremely misunderstood and misinformed.... and inaccurate...

The far right's rise in Hungary and other Eastern European countries is due to the 2008 recession, not multiculturalism - we dont have immigrants from different cultures coming to Hungary

Of course in some countries like France, anti-muslim feelings fuel parties like The National Front but Hungary is a completely different case. And most people in Hungary dont vote for the far right party because they actually share or even really know what their ideology is about - it's just that the left ruined the country and the right are now doing just as bad, so they are flocking to the only alternative, which is the far right party who have never been the governing party, of course if they ever came to power they would be worse than either the left or the right and they would be abandoned for yet another new coming party...but they are promising 'new' and 'better' things than the 'establishment' so people vote for them whether they previously voted for the left or right. Most people dont have an ideology, they're just sheep.

But otherwise, Hungary's PM Orban Viktor is just an attention seeking **** and he will be wiped out soon enough. He wants to reinstate the death penalty and when I look at him, I actually support that, Hungarians should sign a petition and get him beheaded.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Basic-brains
What on earth is the problem with a
Statement like this. Imagine that you're wearing some strange glasses that make you see the world in a funny way. Now symbolise taking off the glasses.

Now read the statement the Hungarian PM made just as a matter of fact statement without any prejudices:


“What we have at stake today is Europe, the European way of life, the survival or disappearance of European values and nations, or their transformation beyond recognition … We would like Europeto be preserved for the Europeans. But there is something we would not just like but we want because it only depends on us: we want to preserve a Hungarian Hungary.”


Posted from TSR Mobile


He actually started a hate campaign against the refugees from Africa/the Middle East and plastered the country with hundreds of banners that said 'If you come to Hungary, you cannot take away Hungarian people's jobs'. The only problem with that is that peasants from the third world don't understand Hungarian and there are no jobs in Hungary, therefore there is nothing to take away, so it is a non issue. He is just trying to divert attention from the fact that he and his government are robbing the country left and right. There have been huge protests against them and the banners have all been torn down so he got them repainted and SENT POLICE OFFICERS TO WATCH THE BANNERS. Surveys show Hungarians dont want the banners and dont want a fence around Hungary. And his blabbing about being 'European' is hilarious, he likes Putin, not Europe.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Drunken Bard


Could we see a second wave of Fascism as a direct result of forced integration?


Free sovereign nations working for the benefit of their own people is not the definition of fascism, god dammit. Fascism is the strict state-control of both social and economic structures within a nation. What we are seeing is the final realisation that multiculturalism does not work.

Original post by lllllllllll
Large scale human migration happened quite frequently in history.


Yes. They were called armies.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by HigherMinion
Free sovereign nations working for the benefit of their own people is not the definition of fascism, god dammit. Fascism is the strict state-control of both social and economic structures within a nation. What we are seeing is the final realisation that multiculturalism does not work.



Yes. They were called armies.


No, but Fascism often rises out of Nationalism.

Something which a lot of Europeans are turning to; Nationalism that is.
Original post by Drunken Bard
No, but Fascism often rises out of Nationalism.

Something which a lot of Europeans are turning to; Nationalism that is.


You cannot suggest patriotism or nationalism result in fascism. Fascism is fascism. New Labour, Nazi party, Franco/Mussolini. Those were fascists: they controlled their internal economies centrally. Britain was not like this for the longest time without being part of the EU. Stop spreading lies.
Original post by HigherMinion
You cannot suggest patriotism or nationalism result in fascism. Fascism is fascism. New Labour, Nazi party, Franco/Mussolini. Those were fascists: they controlled their internal economies centrally. Britain was not like this for the longest time without being part of the EU. Stop spreading lies.


I'm not.

Nationalism is a cornerstone of the Fascist ideology, that's a fact.

Not every nationalist will be a fascist, but every fascist will be a nationalist.
Reply 15
Avatar for Josb
Josb
6
Original post by Drunken Bard
The other day Hungary's PM made a "rivers of blood speech"

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/30/viktor-orban-fidesz-hungary-prime-minister-europe-neo-nazi

Although the Guardian may be a little sensationalist in it's title, I think this is a question worth asking.

Yes we know many people have their issues with the multicultural society, however up until now it's mainly remained on the fringe, Now we have a PM of a nation condemning the multiracial society.

We have seen other groups such as Golden Dawn in Greece and the Front Nationale in France gaining a lot of support in recent years for similar reasons as well.

Could we see a second wave of Fascism as a direct result of forced integration?

The French National Front is not the same as Hungarian Neonazis. More like UKIP.
Original post by HigherMinion
You cannot suggest patriotism or nationalism result in fascism. Fascism is fascism. New Labour, Nazi party, Franco/Mussolini. Those were fascists: they controlled their internal economies centrally. Britain was not like this for the longest time without being part of the EU. Stop spreading lies.


What do you mean by controlling their internal economies centrally? Do you mean as in a planned society - ie socialist?

If so Britain in such cases as Attlees government had toyed with this way before the EU came into being.
Original post by Josb
The French National Front is not the same as Hungarian Neonazis. More like UKIP.


Much more like the BNP.
Original post by Davij038
What do you mean by controlling their internal economies centrally? Do you mean as in a planned society - ie socialist?

If so Britain in such cases as Attlees government had toyed with this way before the EU came into being.


Things like a bread provision and other regulations for the price of certain essential materials. Spain had it, and I believe the UK did have something similar at some point, but I can't remember what the extent was at the top of my head. The extremely fascist states were extremely socialist, yes.

Original post by Drunken Bard
I'm not.Nationalism is a cornerstone of the Fascist ideology, that's a fact.Not every nationalist will be a fascist, but every fascist will be a nationalist.



So stop scaremongering and I'll get off your back.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by HigherMinion
Things like a bread provision and other regulations for the price of certain essential materials. Spain had it, and I believe the UK did have something similar at some point, but I can't remember what the extent was at the top of my head. The extremely fascist states were extremely socialist, yes.




So stop scaremongering and I'll get off your back.


Hardly scaremongering, more speculation.

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