How can you be against grammar schools?

I really did not say anything about everyone having to be a doctor or dismiss any other career? - I don't think this is worth debating if we're going to fabricate things.
I think the statistic just goes to point out how biased the system is, particularly in medicine. Nothing more, nothing less.




I believe Rockport is.
To my knowledge, most of the grammars in Northern Ireland do not do this. I know I didn't do this.

Thats the problem, you managed to succeed despite the 2 tier system. If there are 2 tier school systems, the "good" school get all the resources and money, the "bad" school get the crumbs. If kids have to go into a single tier system, noisy, middle class parents would be more motivated to improve schools rather than cream off their kids and leave the rest to fester.

Actually, grammar schools are not that selective so its easy to get better grades than other grammar school kids.

The implication of what you wrote is private school students are more able than their state school counterparts hence can get into medical school which is academically demanding.

If that is not what you meant, tell me what you did mean.

I do understand your point, but middle class parents in my experience are better at complaining about the school rather than suggesting helpful ways to improve it. There is always going to be a divide due to money, schools could ask for money to be donated by parents but that will make the working class parents who can't afford it feel bad.

I do think that kids from all backgrounds should mix more often because my school can be quite snobbish and I feel second hand embarrassment for the fear they feel when they see someone from a dreaded council estate or something.

My grammar school is pretty selective, you had to score pretty highly to get in, I don't see what you mean by them not being that selective?

Heads have to take parents' complaints seriously, they live on the edge.

I think the desire for grammar schools is a status thing rather than anything to do with education. Parents like to boast their kid went to a grammar and education workers like to think a grammar somehow confers excellence which it does not. My school had streaming which made having 2 separate schools based on ability moot and having 2 schools is wasteful.

Its usually the top 20-25% of kids that go to grammars which is not that selective. If it was the top 5% it would make more sense.

Not necessarily true. A lot of grammar school students come from a family that would also be able to afford a private school, but they send their kids to the grammar to save money.

The system used to select kids that go to grammar schools is also flawed. Kids from the poorest backgrounds cannot afford the tuition for the 11plus, which essentially excludes them since its practically impossible to compete against kids that have been coached for 2 years or so to take the test.

For the system to work properly, we'd have to see 11plus coaching made mandatory for all schools across the country.

as someone who has lived 7 years of her life in grammar school education and went to a normal primary school I would have to say had I not gone to a grammar school during Years 7-11 I would've got worse grades than I did. My parents would've barely afforded private school education (they were considering that had I not passed the 11+). For me personally, it was the perfect environment - I find pressure helps me work better and spurs me on and I didn't feel like a "nerd" for wanting to do lots of work as I may have been labelled as in a comprehensive, which may have led to bullying perhaps (not to say bullying doesn't exist in grammar schools. it certainly does.) I went to a different grammar school for sixth form which I enjoyed even more because it was so academically focused and I truly believe me going there helped me secure a place at oxbridge.

so basically grammar schools ftw!

In my area, getting into grammar schools is more about who can pay the most for private tutoring rather than intelligence. I don't have anything against grammar schools, but that's what it's coming down to where I live. I see 10 year olds being forced into tuition crying, it breaks my heart tbh. Both my brothers went to a grammar school and I went to the 2nd or 3rd worst state school in my borough and I got better grades than them. This system where there's only one grammar school in each area is just encouraging parents to spend ridiculous amounts of money on private tuition. I remember how devastated and angry some parents were when their children didn't get into grammar school because there weren't enough places. I have an issue with private schools because I believe it enforces an idea that in order to get a good education and live an easy life you have to pay for it (sadly this is becoming the issue for entry into grammar schools though.) I don't have any issues with grammar schools apart from there should be more of them in order to get rid of this ridiculous private tutoring culture

as someone who has lived 7 years of her life in grammar school education and went to a normal primary school I would have to say had I not gone to a grammar school during Years 7-11 I would've got worse grades than I did. My parents would've barely afforded private school education (they were considering that had I not passed the 11+). For me personally, it was the perfect environment - I find pressure helps me work better and spurs me on and I didn't feel like a "nerd" for wanting to do lots of work as I may have been labelled as in a comprehensive, which may have led to bullying perhaps (not to say bullying doesn't exist in grammar schools. it certainly does.) I went to a different grammar school for sixth form which I enjoyed even more because it was so academically focused and I truly believe me going there helped me secure a place at oxbridge.

so basically grammar schools ftw!

Ah, the old money = academic potential debate

I was actually the first person in 7 years from my primary school to get in to grammar, and it was then another 4 years before anyone else got through. It was seen as a huge achievement at the time, coming from a "poor" catchment area (i.e. council estate) where families were either lower-working class or on benefits.
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In state schools you get put into sets in accordance to your academic abilitiy anyway. Grammar Schools just stress academia just as specialist colleges may for example spealise in sports or technology

But those in the highest sets in grammars are likely to still perform better than those in the highest sets of a state comp.

I come from a working class family in London and my dad, having gone to a ****ty inner city school, was adamant about me going to a grammar school. We scrimped and saved for the tuition and bought all the books and now i go to a grammar school in Hertfordshire. On the whole I don't think there is anything wrong with Grammar schools but the idea of catchment areas and sibling policies are wholly illogical. It means places for the brighter students are wasted on those who happen to live in the area/ have brainy older sibling, instead of merit.

There a academic sets in grammar schools as well, it over laps usually as the Middle-bottom sets of a grammar are the top sets of a comprehensive


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Makes sense