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PPE or SPS, which one suits me more?

First, I must stress that this is not intended to set up a heated PPE vs SPS debate or slanging match. I appreciate that they are both amazing courses.

I would, however, like a help from fellow TSR'ers in deciding which course is more suited for me, given my subject combinations and grades etc. A pros/cons discussion of each course would be very helpful.

I am doing German, History, Latin, and Economics A Levels, with the option of taking Maths AS next year. I got 6A*s and 5As (inc. Maths) at GCSE.

I was always of the impression that PPE was a superior course, to such an extent that I believed that SPS was little more than 'PPE-lite'. The economics option available for PPE appeals to me. Is there no option for an economics module when studying SPS?

Finally, this discussion is BOUND to have come up before. I spent ages trying to search for a similar thread, but it didn't work- so I apologise if this discussion has indeed come up previously.

Thank you very much
:tsr2:

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Reply 1

sjuthani

Don't worry about whether one is "superior" to another- part of the reason PPE has such a reputation is because its nearly 90 years old now, whilst SPS is only about 30, so has fewer alumni who have moved on to the ranks of the great and the good.

Look into the course- with SPS, do you want to be able to study psychology? Do you want to be able to study sociology from the start? The philosophy is focused on political philosophy IIRC, so maybe that's something for you to think about.

Oddly enough, I'm not interested in political philosophy- I've always found in deathly dull. My interest in philosophy stems from a more religious/ethical/moral standpoint. Also be aware that philosophy at Oxford is the full thing, so you will also be required to study logic, metaphysics, epistimology and all that as part of the first year alone (broader options from the second year).

AFAIK, you can't really study economics as part of SPS, so you if you really want to know about the economy and markets (in the broadest senses of those words) then SPS isn't really for you. I came here with A-level economics, but not maths, and I cope just fine (even if I complain about it a lot, generally because I just like to complain :p:

) but AS-level maths does make life a little bit easier for you.

Your subject combination works fine for both degrees, and I'd say that it was a case of choosing what appeals to you more. I'd suggest some hunting through the prospectuses to see the subject differences and then maybe doing a little reading to see which one particularly appeals. For philosophy, I'd say that Simon Blackburn's "Think" or "Sophie's World" by some Norwegian guy I think, are a great starter books, whilst I'd recommend something like "New Ideas from Dead Economists" as an introduction to economic thought.

Reply 2

hobnob

sjuthani

"Sophie's World" by some Norwegian guy I think, are a great starter books, whilst I'd recommend something like "New Ideas from Dead Economists" as an introduction to economic thought.

Jostein Gaarder (pronounced sort of like "yew-stine gored 'er", in case you're interested - which I bet you're not). :smile:

Reply 3

sjuthani

hobnob

Jostein Gaarder (pronounced sort of like "yew-stine gored 'er", in case you're interested - which I bet you're not). :smile:

I was when I was searching for the book a couple of years ago. Not so much anymore :p:

Thanks for the name though, will prove useful for anyone reading the thread. :smile:

Reply 4

gooseymcgoose

if you want to do economics sounds like you should be going for PPE

Reply 5

likewinethroughwater

what did you apply for in the end?

Reply 6

Craghyrax

Hmm - it would help if I noticed the date of the OP :rofl:

- but hopefully the comments may be found by some person who cares someday.

1361

First of all I don't think you should refer too much to your current grades and subjects in order to make your decision. I think PPE has subject requirements, which will obviously have a bearing, however the most important thing is to work out which subjects you will most enjoy, as both courses are intense, and you will be emerged in that area for three years!

My decision was very straightforward: I'm not mathematically competent enough to survive Economics in a degree, and Philosophy would also have proved pretty challenging for me as a result of Logic and the level of metaphysical abstraction.

SPS: Part 1 - Psychology, Sociology, Politics plus a fourth subject which can be any one of 6 options, including Economics (if you have the A level Maths for it) Part I is one year, and in your second year you specialise in either Psychology, Politics or Sociology for the remaining two years. There are some interdisciplinary options, and some combinations you can use in Part II, or you can focus more deeply and specifically on one stream.

I would hasten to point out that changing to different courses is quite straightforward and common at Cambridge. I have friends who have switched into SPS from other degrees, and also some who have transferred to different colleges after first year. Colleges are usually very supportive and flexible, so you shouldn't feel too determined by your choice. I'm sure the same may be true at Oxford, although I'll leave it for the Clone army to comment.

PPE as far as I understand involves taking three subjects for the first year - Politics, Economics and Philosophy. In second and third year you can lose one subject for the remainder of the degree. You then can choose how you balance the ratio of your subjects, eg 2:4 or 3:3 or something - an Oxon will have to provide the exact balances available to you as I only hazily remember from chatting to a PPE friend several weeks ago.

I would like to stress that SPS should not be considered as a wannabe PPE (despite their pathetic name change to PPS) They are extremely different subjects with only Politics in common. Even as far as Politics is concerned they differ sharply. Cambridge Politics heavily emphasises the History of Political Thought and has strong links to the History department. Students such as myself who have chosen not to specialise in Politics are essentially studying a degree that is in no way comparable to PPE except in so far as they are both multidisciplinary and social science!
The Economics component of PPE might answer for part of its popularity and supposed superiority - I'm sure it must be better for career prospects than SPS! However, the Psychology and Sociology department at Cambridge are top in the country - so I think each has its own merit. Its just a division of labour, really - they're offering different benefits.

Your choice really should be based on which subjects you will most enjoy!

Reply 7

hobnob

likewinethroughwater

what did you apply for in the end?

German at Oxford, if I remember correctly. :smile:

Reply 8

FadedJade

Well PPE is Philosophy, Politics and Economics
PPS is Psychology, Politics and Sociology

The two courses aren't all that alike, so the one for you is the one that actually contains what you want to study.

Reply 9

FadedJade

OK I just realised how old this thread is.

Reply 10

The West Wing

First year PPS is ridiculously difficult and work-heavy. I've worked until 4AM most nights.

I realise people that care less than me don't do as much as that, but I've found it to be the toughest thing I've done in my life.

Reply 11

parkerpen

The West Wing

I think its unfair to characterise those of us who didn't work until 4am as not caring less. For instance, I never worked that hard in 3 years but I cared deeply about the degree

Reply 12

Alexander

The West Wing

First year PPS is ridiculously difficult and work-heavy. I've worked until 4AM most nights.

You could do that with any Cambridge degree if you're mad enough. It doesn't mean PPS is worse than most.

Reply 13

Teebs

The West Wing

Everything I've heard from Cambridge friends is that SPS has one of the lowest workloads.

Reply 14

The West Wing

Teebs

Everything I've heard from Cambridge friends is that SPS has one of the lowest workloads.

I guess I just suck then.

Reply 15

parkerpen

Teebs

Everything I've heard from Cambridge friends is that SPS has one of the lowest workloads.

The thing about workloads is that the "mean workload" of a particular subject is pretty meaningless. Plenty of people do tonnes of work in all subjects, a fair few get away with relatively little.
It is true that in the sciences the minimum workload is a lot higher than the humanities beucase of practicals and higher lecture loads. However judging from my friends they used to sleep through lectures and mess about during practicals yet called it 'work'.

The problem with SPS is that the workload seemed the most varied. Most arts friends of mine had fairly rigorous timetables. essays due in on a regular basis that were laid out ahead of time. for SPS with four supervisors in different disciplines I often found that I had a tonne of supervisions one week and then almost nothing for 2 weeks. In your second and third year varied project loads are also problematic in this way. Despite doing the same amount of work as many other arts students I often seemed to be working less.

Finally I know a fair few of the people who got firsts in my year. They worked very hard for the most part. Getting a first in SPS is a lot tougher, statistically at least, than getting a first in most sciences. By the same logic getting a 2i is a lot easier (again statistically) in SPS.

Reply 16

Craghyrax

Teebs

Everything I've heard from Cambridge friends is that SPS has one of the lowest workloads.

Yeh they tell us that too. It results in pretty violent reactions from this quarter when (like now) I have three essays to do in four days :dry:

The West Wing

- this is a pretty accurate description of my first year.

Alexander

You could do that with any Cambridge degree if you're mad enough. It doesn't mean PPS is worse than most.

Nobody's suggesting that his comments make PPS any harder than any other degree at Cambridge. To the contrary it is flagged up primarily because of the widespread notion that the reverse is true.