Why are conservative values looked down upon?
Why are true conservative values looked down upon? If you look at Islam, you will see that its a conservative religion in many regards. However, in the west, there seems to be somewhat of a deep hatred now of conservatism, even though in the past conservatism has led to more order, respect and a higher system of morality within society (I'm not talking about Thatcher etc. - I'm talking about true small 'c' conservatism).
So many insults have been created by liberal bigots who loathe anyone with different views to them. For example, the term 'homophobic' is used as a slur against people who oppose gay marriage. This isn't homophobic at all yet its an easy card to play just like the racism card when you can't actually debate a point respectfully. Furthermore, liberals think you owe them a justification for your viewpoints like they're some superior entity that you simply must explain your views to and justify. They really should just get over themselves and accept that not everyone will hold the same views as them.
There has been a constant attack on true conservatism in the UK.
If you are against gay marriage the liberal bigots will call you homophobic.
If you are against mass immigration the liberal bigots will call you a racist.
If you are against any of their beliefs they will find a word to slur you with.
They claim to be open minded, liberal and accepting but deep down that only applies if you think and believe the same as them, otherwise they will insult you and abuse you with these slurs to try and discredit you. The problem with this liberal bigotry is these bigots cant actually accept conservative values and try to force their opinion on everyone else.
So many insults have been created by liberal bigots who loathe anyone with different views to them. For example, the term 'homophobic' is used as a slur against people who oppose gay marriage. This isn't homophobic at all yet its an easy card to play just like the racism card when you can't actually debate a point respectfully. Furthermore, liberals think you owe them a justification for your viewpoints like they're some superior entity that you simply must explain your views to and justify. They really should just get over themselves and accept that not everyone will hold the same views as them.
There has been a constant attack on true conservatism in the UK.
If you are against gay marriage the liberal bigots will call you homophobic.
If you are against mass immigration the liberal bigots will call you a racist.
If you are against any of their beliefs they will find a word to slur you with.
They claim to be open minded, liberal and accepting but deep down that only applies if you think and believe the same as them, otherwise they will insult you and abuse you with these slurs to try and discredit you. The problem with this liberal bigotry is these bigots cant actually accept conservative values and try to force their opinion on everyone else.
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Because Conservatism is evil at its core. Lets break it down:
- Conservatives want regressive taxation - they want the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer
- Conservatives want a free market in education and health care - how is this in any way fair on the poorest in society?
- Conservatives are intolerant of those who are different, whether that be race, religion, sexuality, income levels etc.
- Conservatives are generally opposed to change - the clue is in the name, they want to 'conserve' things the way they are
- Conservatives are all about greed, self-interest, no redistribution of wealth, acquisition of wealth at the expense of others. Some Conservatives don't even believe we should do anything about climate change and global warming.
Conservatism is great if you're already wealthy or born into affluence. It's awful if you're poor or born into poverty. I really fear for this country over the next 5 years. This majority Conservative government will destroy the lives of the most vulnerable in society and create severe divisions in society.
- Conservatives want regressive taxation - they want the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer
- Conservatives want a free market in education and health care - how is this in any way fair on the poorest in society?
- Conservatives are intolerant of those who are different, whether that be race, religion, sexuality, income levels etc.
- Conservatives are generally opposed to change - the clue is in the name, they want to 'conserve' things the way they are
- Conservatives are all about greed, self-interest, no redistribution of wealth, acquisition of wealth at the expense of others. Some Conservatives don't even believe we should do anything about climate change and global warming.
Conservatism is great if you're already wealthy or born into affluence. It's awful if you're poor or born into poverty. I really fear for this country over the next 5 years. This majority Conservative government will destroy the lives of the most vulnerable in society and create severe divisions in society.
Because social convervatism is a repressive and authoritarian ideology disguised as 'moral values'. People then hide behind their 'moral values' to justify their irrationality and bigotry.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Mr JB
If you are against gay marriage the liberal bigots will call you homophobic.
Thank you for proving my point.
Being honest I'd expect justification from anyone who has influence in how the country is run on their views. I don't think that is unreasonable - why should we just accept a view without justification. I agree however that debate shouldn't get personal - simply because someone disagrees with gay marriage, we should not label them homophobic, especially if we want a sensible debate. I don't however think it's unreasonable to challenge someone on their views and ask for justification, regardless of what that view is.
I think when conservative views are 'looked down on', it is often not done blindly, justification is given. For example I'm against conservative values because at there core they support maintaining an unequal society that is currently in existence. They also put profit well above everything else - this governments support for fracking is a perfect example of this.
I think when conservative views are 'looked down on', it is often not done blindly, justification is given. For example I'm against conservative values because at there core they support maintaining an unequal society that is currently in existence. They also put profit well above everything else - this governments support for fracking is a perfect example of this.
It's not looked down upon. The Conservative Party just won a landslide election and UKIP, who were formed by hardline Tories who hated EU integration, got 4 million votes, while The Green Party - the antithesis of conservative values - only got just over 1 million.
Maybe in universities and TSR where most people haven't actually had a full-time job, paid tax and experienced responsibility of any kind for more than ten minutes look down on conservative values but there is a lot of fondness for them among people who actually live in the real world.
Some students, dossers and trade union types call anything they don't agree with "evil" but that doesn't mean that is a view shared by most others! They're just bitter, angry blowhards with chips on their shoulders who want to make you feel bad for disagreeing with them. They tend to the loudest and most vocal so it seems like they're the majority when they're spewing their hatred towards successful people. I assure you they're not.
Maybe in universities and TSR where most people haven't actually had a full-time job, paid tax and experienced responsibility of any kind for more than ten minutes look down on conservative values but there is a lot of fondness for them among people who actually live in the real world.
Some students, dossers and trade union types call anything they don't agree with "evil" but that doesn't mean that is a view shared by most others! They're just bitter, angry blowhards with chips on their shoulders who want to make you feel bad for disagreeing with them. They tend to the loudest and most vocal so it seems like they're the majority when they're spewing their hatred towards successful people. I assure you they're not.
(edited 8 years ago)
The Tories have been a mixed bunch. Admittedly the slash and burn has happened too quickly but I still believe to an extent it is necessary. How on Earth did Blair run a budget deficit that high during the boom period still baffles me.
Yes, the Conservatives would want regressive taxation but income tax rates have virtually stayed the same. Gordon Brown introduced the 50% tax rate in 2009 and it brought it next to nothing in 2009. I'm satisfied with the current 40% tax threshold. If anything I'd push it up to £45000.
I do agree on the corporate tax rate front though, currently large businesses I feel are taxed a tad too low. Small businesses are still struggling so I'd keep it low for them.
Note, in a lot of cases rises in personal allowances has helped a lot of people.
Education at the moment is in a hole at the moment. The whole academy thing is a mare but the same level of education is still there (compared to Blair years) provided you actually get a place in school but that's the issue with mass migration. If you're smart, you'll do just well whether it'll be in BTECs, A-levels or apprenticeships as those who did 7 years ago. Simple as.
Essentially with healthcare, running the same budget but spread over even more people is always a bad idea so expenditure per person falls. This is something that needs to be sorted. Nurses and midwives also need a hefty pay rise to incentivise people to enter the workforce, but I'd keep other certain roles at 0.5 above inflation.
'Conservatives are intolerant of those who are different, whether that be race, religion, sexuality, income levels etc.'
Bull****, if anything the Tories have done more than I've ever expected a centre-right/right party to do but that may be more due to presence of Lib Dems in the coalition in the previous government.
Yes, we need to give everyone a pay rise but that has to be done gradually. We need more housing, which can only be built at a certain pace and perhaps even a rent control (something pretty anti-tory.)
Most Tories do acknowledge climate change seeing as a few of it's constituencies are rural villages. The reason they cut subsidies was because you have idiots like Centrica who made a billion pound profit getting green subsidies, when it should have used a part of its profit as well.
Conservatism can work provided we make work pay and see a fall in pensioners. Social welfare is fine as it is and will automatically fall if the economy improves. My biggest issue is, what's the point of getting people out of poverty and out of vulnerability, if we're just going to add more and more into into the vulnerable category through. Most of our migration is low-skilled, both EU and non-EU.
At the end of the day, we could be a lot better if we scrapped the stupid tax subsidies for large firms and pushed to close tax loopholes. But going all Corbyn is something the UK just isn't ready for. Those who pay taxes, want to know what they're going to get out of it. That's not greed, that's fair. What's the point of studying hard and working hard (most people get rich this way), if you're facing ridiculous high taxes in which you get very little return for?
We do need to do a lot more for the vulnerable but if taxpayers who have household income above £16000 are no better off than the vulnerable, then what happens? Yes, we should provide them high quality healthcare and education to get them out of poverty and whatnot but other than that in this current economic climate, it should be basic standard of living (i.e. food, shelter and a very small luxury fund) for them with taxpayers benefiting the most out of the taxes. Perhaps in the future if we do have a budget surplus, you can extend the maintenance/luxury fund' but at the current moment, we need to increase social welfare such that there's food on the table for everyone.
I don't see the fuss over the new child tax credits cap, if you can't pay for them, don't have them. You can't have a baby accidentally on three separate occasions.
What you have to remember is that it's easier to spend money you don't have than to pay back money you don't have.
Yes, the Conservatives would want regressive taxation but income tax rates have virtually stayed the same. Gordon Brown introduced the 50% tax rate in 2009 and it brought it next to nothing in 2009. I'm satisfied with the current 40% tax threshold. If anything I'd push it up to £45000.
I do agree on the corporate tax rate front though, currently large businesses I feel are taxed a tad too low. Small businesses are still struggling so I'd keep it low for them.
Note, in a lot of cases rises in personal allowances has helped a lot of people.
Education at the moment is in a hole at the moment. The whole academy thing is a mare but the same level of education is still there (compared to Blair years) provided you actually get a place in school but that's the issue with mass migration. If you're smart, you'll do just well whether it'll be in BTECs, A-levels or apprenticeships as those who did 7 years ago. Simple as.
Essentially with healthcare, running the same budget but spread over even more people is always a bad idea so expenditure per person falls. This is something that needs to be sorted. Nurses and midwives also need a hefty pay rise to incentivise people to enter the workforce, but I'd keep other certain roles at 0.5 above inflation.
'Conservatives are intolerant of those who are different, whether that be race, religion, sexuality, income levels etc.'
Bull****, if anything the Tories have done more than I've ever expected a centre-right/right party to do but that may be more due to presence of Lib Dems in the coalition in the previous government.
Yes, we need to give everyone a pay rise but that has to be done gradually. We need more housing, which can only be built at a certain pace and perhaps even a rent control (something pretty anti-tory.)
Most Tories do acknowledge climate change seeing as a few of it's constituencies are rural villages. The reason they cut subsidies was because you have idiots like Centrica who made a billion pound profit getting green subsidies, when it should have used a part of its profit as well.
Conservatism can work provided we make work pay and see a fall in pensioners. Social welfare is fine as it is and will automatically fall if the economy improves. My biggest issue is, what's the point of getting people out of poverty and out of vulnerability, if we're just going to add more and more into into the vulnerable category through. Most of our migration is low-skilled, both EU and non-EU.
At the end of the day, we could be a lot better if we scrapped the stupid tax subsidies for large firms and pushed to close tax loopholes. But going all Corbyn is something the UK just isn't ready for. Those who pay taxes, want to know what they're going to get out of it. That's not greed, that's fair. What's the point of studying hard and working hard (most people get rich this way), if you're facing ridiculous high taxes in which you get very little return for?
We do need to do a lot more for the vulnerable but if taxpayers who have household income above £16000 are no better off than the vulnerable, then what happens? Yes, we should provide them high quality healthcare and education to get them out of poverty and whatnot but other than that in this current economic climate, it should be basic standard of living (i.e. food, shelter and a very small luxury fund) for them with taxpayers benefiting the most out of the taxes. Perhaps in the future if we do have a budget surplus, you can extend the maintenance/luxury fund' but at the current moment, we need to increase social welfare such that there's food on the table for everyone.
I don't see the fuss over the new child tax credits cap, if you can't pay for them, don't have them. You can't have a baby accidentally on three separate occasions.
What you have to remember is that it's easier to spend money you don't have than to pay back money you don't have.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by KimKallstrom
It's not looked down upon. The Conservative Party just won a landslide election and UKIP, who were formed by hardline Tories who hated EU integration, got 4 million votes, while The Green Party - the antithesis of conservative values - only got just over 1 million.
Maybe in universities and TSR where most people haven't actually had a full-time job, paid tax and experienced responsibility of any kind for more than ten minutes look down on conservative values but there is a lot of fondness for them among people who actually live in the real world.
Some students, dossers and trade union types call anything they don't agree with "evil" but that doesn't mean that is a view shared by most others! They're just bitter, angry blowhards with chips on their shoulders who want to make you feel bad for disagreeing with them. They tend to the loudest and most vocal so it seems like they're the majority when they're spewing their hatred towards successful people. I assure you they're not.
Maybe in universities and TSR where most people haven't actually had a full-time job, paid tax and experienced responsibility of any kind for more than ten minutes look down on conservative values but there is a lot of fondness for them among people who actually live in the real world.
Some students, dossers and trade union types call anything they don't agree with "evil" but that doesn't mean that is a view shared by most others! They're just bitter, angry blowhards with chips on their shoulders who want to make you feel bad for disagreeing with them. They tend to the loudest and most vocal so it seems like they're the majority when they're spewing their hatred towards successful people. I assure you they're not.
I wish I could give you a thousand upvotes. Spot on!
Original post by k4l397
Being honest I'd expect justification from anyone who has influence in how the country is run on their views. I don't think that is unreasonable - why should we just accept a view without justification. I agree however that debate shouldn't get personal - simply because someone disagrees with gay marriage, we should not label them homophobic, especially if we want a sensible debate. I don't however think it's unreasonable to challenge someone on their views and ask for justification, regardless of what that view is.
I think when conservative views are 'looked down on', it is often not done blindly, justification is given. For example I'm against conservative values because at there core they support maintaining an unequal society that is currently in existence. They also put profit well above everything else - this governments support for fracking is a perfect example of this.
I think when conservative views are 'looked down on', it is often not done blindly, justification is given. For example I'm against conservative values because at there core they support maintaining an unequal society that is currently in existence. They also put profit well above everything else - this governments support for fracking is a perfect example of this.
We are not all the same otherwise we'd all be the same person. We'd all be doing the same job. The fact that we aren't equal means that we all are special at something. It's not that we are against equality, after all it was the Tories who abolished slavery, introduced the equal pay act 1970 and legalised gay marriage. We believe in an equal opportunity at success. Unfortunately, just as it is impractical for everyone to be equal, this is also.
You right wingers complain about being stereotyped as homophobes and racists, yet you have no problem generalising left wingers or even center left liberals as insane SJW types. Hypocrisy is bliss.
Original post by Mr JB
If you are against gay marriage
If you are against mass immigration
If you are against any of their beliefs
If you are against gay marriage
If you are against mass immigration
If you are against any of their beliefs
You answered your own question.
If you can't accept other people live their own lives and have different beliefs, sexualities or ethnicities to you then you are indeed a sh*t person all over
Original post by KimKallstrom
Some students, dossers and trade union types call anything they don't agree with "evil" but that doesn't mean that is a view shared by most others!
I think Nazism is evil and I don't agree with it, but hey, I guess I'm just some dosser aren't I?
Original post by RonnieRJ
You answered your own question.
If you can't accept other people live their own lives and have different beliefs, sexualities or ethnicities to you then you are indeed a sh*t person all over
If you can't accept other people live their own lives and have different beliefs, sexualities or ethnicities to you then you are indeed a sh*t person all over
Basically this. Liberal values are about letting people live their lives however they want as long as it doesn't negatively impact on the lives of others. Conservative values are about imposing their opinions on others and making everyone live how they think they should.
Original post by Terry Tibbs
You right wingers complain about being stereotyped as homophobes and racists, yet you have no problem generalising left wingers or even center left liberals as insane SJW types. Hypocrisy is bliss.
+1
I have encountered hardline right-wing types who dismissed me as a 'social justice warrior' and 'cultural Marxist' for simply thinking minorities are human beings...
Conservatism just doesn't work. We know this because Neo-Liberalism is a big sham which is all about supporting the growth of monopolies. Trickle down economics does not work.
And lowering corporate tax is just a game of musical chairs until one country finds its self unable to function.
UK is dead anyway. My advise i just leave and let the rich get over ran by migrants who aren't loyal to the country. Let the rich hire their mercenaries for their own protection. There is no point getting killed for her majesty and fighting in her wars. Screw Britain.and the whole establishment. Let the world get their revenge on the lords and ladys.
And lowering corporate tax is just a game of musical chairs until one country finds its self unable to function.
UK is dead anyway. My advise i just leave and let the rich get over ran by migrants who aren't loyal to the country. Let the rich hire their mercenaries for their own protection. There is no point getting killed for her majesty and fighting in her wars. Screw Britain.and the whole establishment. Let the world get their revenge on the lords and ladys.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by KimKallstrom
It's not looked down upon. The Conservative Party just won a landslide election and UKIP, who were formed by hardline Tories who hated EU integration, got 4 million votes, while The Green Party - the antithesis of conservative values - only got just over 1 million.
Maybe in universities and TSR where most people haven't actually had a full-time job, paid tax and experienced responsibility of any kind for more than ten minutes look down on conservative values but there is a lot of fondness for them among people who actually live in the real world.
Some students, dossers and trade union types call anything they don't agree with "evil" but that doesn't mean that is a view shared by most others! They're just bitter, angry blowhards with chips on their shoulders who want to make you feel bad for disagreeing with them. They tend to the loudest and most vocal so it seems like they're the majority when they're spewing their hatred towards successful people. I assure you they're not.
Maybe in universities and TSR where most people haven't actually had a full-time job, paid tax and experienced responsibility of any kind for more than ten minutes look down on conservative values but there is a lot of fondness for them among people who actually live in the real world.
Some students, dossers and trade union types call anything they don't agree with "evil" but that doesn't mean that is a view shared by most others! They're just bitter, angry blowhards with chips on their shoulders who want to make you feel bad for disagreeing with them. They tend to the loudest and most vocal so it seems like they're the majority when they're spewing their hatred towards successful people. I assure you they're not.
I'm sorry to tell you this because it may come as a shock, but I do in fact live in the real world and in it there are millions and millions of responsible, hard working adults who pay tax and ardently vote for left wing policy. In fact, every left winger you've ever talked to or heard from has lived in the real world. If you think these people don't exist I am afraid it is you who live in the fantasy land, friend.
I hope at some point you and others like you can come to terms with that.
Society is invariably evolving towards an ideal civilisation wherein life for all the humans in that society generally becomes better (don't take my word for it, just look at all of human history ever, for example compare ancient egypt to the Victorian era to now):
Economically, Earth's resources are shared more fairly among its inhabitants so that everyone has enough and no one finds themselves in need.
Socially, the fact that human beings are created as equals and are entitled to equal opportunities and rights regardless of background becomes more recognised and realised. Here it is important to clarify that people are allowed to excel and succeed, it just shouldn't be on the basis that they were simply born higher up the social ladder than someone of higher merit, for example. Life should be fair.
Technologically, machines and mechanisms that improve human lives and ensure a better future are invested in, most notably for our generation this means clean energy.
Scientifically, the study of the universe we find ourselves in is given the resources needed to find things out, regardless of the value of the research in generating wealth for small numbers of humans.
This evolution is called progress and is something right wing politicians do not seem to believe in.
The politics of fear, selfishness and greed are never going to advance civilisation in a positive way. Never have, never will.
So it is looked down upon. Shy tories are a real thing and they are right to be shy. Voting for a party which cuts funding for education and child benefits while giving tax breaks to millionaires and tripling university fees is definitely something to be ashamed of. If it helps you sleep at night to tell yourself that this is the only way and that it is necessary then do so but in that 'real world' you love so much they are ideological decisions to which there exist alternatives that are entertained successfully in other nations, perhaps the most notable examples being the Nordic nations.
The word Tory itself comes from Irish and means outlaw, thief, scoundrel...
At the most basic level consevative policy is seen as....well, conservative. It's small-minded, short sighted, reactionary. It always moves to impede progress. Those who vote for it do so either because they haven't thought about it very much and have been misinformed or because they enjoy the position they have above their 'lessers' in society and would very much like to keep things that way.
Original post by jelmes96
We are not all the same otherwise we'd all be the same person. We'd all be doing the same job. The fact that we aren't equal means that we all are special at something. It's not that we are against equality, after all it was the Tories who abolished slavery, introduced the equal pay act 1970 and legalised gay marriage. We believe in an equal opportunity at success. Unfortunately, just as it is impractical for everyone to be equal, this is also.
I'm not proposing everyone needs to be totally equal, but income inequality in this country needs to be lessened. It's been found in places where income inequality is lower, that things such as life expectancy is higher for both the most wealthy and the least wealthy. If I had the time to do more research I could list multiple other reasons why reducing income inequality benefits the whole of society. The government has done the total opposite to this and gone a long way to increase income inequality. The worst of it is they've tried to cover it up, child poverty for example has apparently decreased (mainly due to them redefining what child poverty is...). The cuts they have brought to the welfare system have also resulted in deaths, figures that the DWP are still yet to publish (although I think they might be due today). It is thought they will be releasing age-standardised mortality rates, rather than the actual number. To the average member of the public some standardised figure will mean nothing, it's what looks to be another attempt to cover up the effects of their cuts and it's disgusting.
The tories may have done all those things you mentioned, but all those things were inevitable anyway. If it were another government in power at that time then the same would have happened at some point. Those changes were brought about due to changes in peoples attitudes rather than the Tories having some core principle for greater equality. Furthermore, the Tories don't believe in an equal oppurtunity for success, otherwise they wouldn't be making cuts to further education, they wouldn't be removing maintanence grants (which encourages many poorer students to go uni in the first place) and they wouldn't be uncapping tuition fees. It certainly isn't impractical to make society more equal than it currently is, other countries manage it and that in itself should be evidence enough. If you genuinely believe that those are Tory values, you seriously must have been brainwashed...
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