The Student Room Group

Lying on UCAS?

Hey guys,

First and foremost, this is a situation that I don't agree with completely on an ethical level. Despite this though, I am looking for honest, realistic replies of your viewpoint on the matter.

I'm an aspiring dental student - one of many. I received relatively decent GCSEs: 6 A*s, 5 As. However, my AS results were dreadful this summer: DDEE

I decided to move college for a fresh start. They said I'd have to redo year 12. This presents a problem as most dental schools disallow candidates to complete A levels over a period of more than 2 years. I would be doing them over 3 years.

There were extenuating circumstances, and the head of 6th at the new college said that I could lie on my UCAS personal statement by saying that due to these circumstances, I didn't complete my first time doing year 12 (even though I did), thus making it seem as if I'd only sat my A levels over a 2 year period.

Their claim was that universities won't check to see qualifications from my previous college as I would be applying through the new college, with new AS and A2 grades under the new 2015 spec, and due to the fact that realistically, universities don't have time to background check everyone.

I understand that this is ethically wrong, however the head of 6th suggested I do this and I was wondering if I should follow them up on their advice?

Thanks for reading!
(edited 8 years ago)

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I'd do it if I were you. Students at public schools get considerable advantages to those at state schools, so it's not as if you're cheating in a fair race. The race is already rigged, and the chances are probably already against you.

I wouldn't say it's ethically wrong, but that's just me.
Original post by Jenaid
Hey guys,

First and foremost, this is a situation that I don't agree with completely on an ethical level. Despite this though, I am looking for honest, realistic replies of your viewpoint on the matter.

I'm an aspiring dental student - one of many. I received relatively decent GCSEs: 6 A*s, 5 As. However, my AS results were dreadful this summer: DDEE

I decided to move college for a fresh start. They said I'd have to redo year 12. This presents a problem as most dental schools disallow candidates to complete A levels over a period of more than 2 years. I would be doing them over 3 years.

There were extenuating circumstances, and the head of 6th at the new college said that I could lie on my UCAS personal statement by saying that due to these circumstances, I didn't complete my first time doing year 12 (even though I did), thus making it seem as if I'd only sat my A levels over a 2 year period.

Their claim was that universities won't check to see qualifications from my previous college as I would be applying through the new college, with new AS and A2 grades under the new 2015 spec, and due to the fact that realistically, universities don't have time to background check everyone.

I understand that this is ethically wrong, however the head of 6th suggested I do this and I was wondering if I should follow them up on their advice?

Thanks for reading!


Not just ethically wrong:
http://help.ucas.com/contract12/index.html
Original post by Jenaid
Hey guys,

First and foremost, this is a situation that I don't agree with completely on an ethical level. Despite this though, I am looking for honest, realistic replies of your viewpoint on the matter.

I'm an aspiring dental student - one of many. I received relatively decent GCSEs: 6 A*s, 5 As. However, my AS results were dreadful this summer: DDEE

I decided to move college for a fresh start. They said I'd have to redo year 12. This presents a problem as most dental schools disallow candidates to complete A levels over a period of more than 2 years. I would be doing them over 3 years.

There were extenuating circumstances, and the head of 6th at the new college said that I could lie on my UCAS personal statement by saying that due to these circumstances, I didn't complete my first time doing year 12 (even though I did), thus making it seem as if I'd only sat my A levels over a 2 year period.

Their claim was that universities won't check to see qualifications from my previous college as I would be applying through the new college, with new AS and A2 grades under the new 2015 spec, and due to the fact that realistically, universities don't have time to background check everyone.

I understand that this is ethically wrong, however the head of 6th suggested I do this and I was wondering if I should follow them up on their advice?

Thanks for reading!


According to UCAS you d be commiting fraud so I really wouldn't do it after all that would be a year unaccounted for and a university would want to know why that gap existed.
Do what u gotta do to get in as long as you are confident u will not get found out. There was a poll on here not long ago and a significant number of people do lie in their personal statement. Thats to be expected when you are trying to get into uni and you know you wont get caught lying (like, you can claim to have read a book you never read - no one will ever find out you didnt read it unless you have to attend an interview) etc, people lie all the time because the system makes it easy.
Reply 5
Original post by Jasaron
I'd do it if I were you. Students at public schools get considerable advantages to those at state schools, so it's not as if you're cheating in a fair race. The race is already rigged, and the chances are probably already against you.

I wouldn't say it's ethically wrong, but that's just me.


This sounds slightly bitter, and is awful advice for life/anything. Cheating is cheating, regardless of what other people do. If you get caught, they won't give you a free pass because 'wahh, public school kids get more help than me'.
Reply 6
Original post by claireestelle
According to UCAS you d be commiting fraud so I really wouldn't do it after all that would be a year unaccounted for and a university would want to know why that gap existed.


Well as I said, there genuinely were extenuating circumstances that affected not only me, but my entire family which would be the 'explanation' as to why I hadn't completed my AS exams in the first year (having dropped out of college before exam season, hypothetically).

I'm not advocating this by the way and I was shocked to hear it from a head of 6th, but my thinking is if they're suggesting I do that, then it must be a fairly common occurence without severe consequence, otherwise they wouldn't risk it themselves as an instituion.
Okay first of all, the head is full of bull crap, seriously doubting the credibility of this new college.

I THINK (and correct me if I am wrong) but as an aspiring med student what I gather from "over 2 years only" is that your series can only extend over two years. example: 2011-2012 so that means you can't resit any module in 2013 because that will be beyond your series.

however if you restart sixth form, then surely you are just joining a new series which itself extends over 2 years. this would also erradicate your problem. but do just check what anybody tells you.

Also, UCAS has a very vigorous system of verifying the facts. Seriously, the horror stories i've been told...you don't wanna lie to them
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Jenaid
x


Don't do it. Even if it's unlikely that UCAS/the universities will discover that you did sit the exams, there is still a reasonable chance; there will be evidence, and they just have to find it for your future to be ruined. If there were truly extenuating circumstances, surely they will be valid enough for the unis so you don't have to lie? Also, I'm beyond shocked that your new sixth form is recommending this route; if they encourage this, I can imagine them being dishonest about coursework etc.
Original post by Jenaid
Well as I said, there genuinely were extenuating circumstances that affected not only me, but my entire family which would be the 'explanation' as to why I hadn't completed my AS exams in the first year (having dropped out of college before exam season, hypothetically).

I'm not advocating this by the way and I was shocked to hear it from a head of 6th, but my thinking is if they're suggesting I do that, then it must be a fairly common occurence without severe consequence, otherwise they wouldn't risk it themselves as an instituion.


Fill in the UCAS honestly and then follow the universities own extenuating circumstances policy. A school suggesting you lie makes me doubt that they're fully aware of any consequences.
Could you ask the universities if they have an allowance for 3 years due to extenuating circumstances? They must have something in place otherwise it's discrimination.. I'd say ring up a university which youd consider but not your top choice and see what they say. If they say yes then try the one you really want. If they say no then lie I guess
b honest
Original post by Jenaid
Hey guys,

First and foremost, this is a situation that I don't agree with completely on an ethical level. Despite this though, I am looking for honest, realistic replies of your viewpoint on the matter.

I'm an aspiring dental student - one of many. I received relatively decent GCSEs: 6 A*s, 5 As. However, my AS results were dreadful this summer: DDEE

I decided to move college for a fresh start. They said I'd have to redo year 12. This presents a problem as most dental schools disallow candidates to complete A levels over a period of more than 2 years. I would be doing them over 3 years.

There were extenuating circumstances, and the head of 6th at the new college said that I could lie on my UCAS personal statement by saying that due to these circumstances, I didn't complete my first time doing year 12 (even though I did), thus making it seem as if I'd only sat my A levels over a 2 year period.

Their claim was that universities won't check to see qualifications from my previous college as I would be applying through the new college, with new AS and A2 grades under the new 2015 spec, and due to the fact that realistically, universities don't have time to background check everyone.

I understand that this is ethically wrong, however the head of 6th suggested I do this and I was wondering if I should follow them up on their advice?

Thanks for reading!

Original post by Carnationlilyrose

Let me just offer a dissenting voice.

Cheaters do prosper. For every Lance Armstrong, there's 10 Sonny Steroids. Since your new college seems willing to collude with you, go for it. Just make sure references and your personal statement match.
(edited 8 years ago)
It really depends on how important this is to you. Dentistry is a choice that, while not always, is likely to be your career for the rest of your life. If you're so determined to be a dentist then what do you have to lose? If they won't take you because of your extra year then you have no chance of getting on, whereas if you lie there is at least some chance you will get on, and the worst case scenario is that they reject you; which would be the outcome anyway. Its a victimless crime.

I don't condone cheating in anyway, but don't look back in years to come and realise you made a mistake.
Reply 14
If I did do it and did get caught, what would the consequence be? Would I still be able to reapply the year after, or would I be banned from applying to any university through UCAS? Alternatively, would I still be able to apply to universities abroad to do dentistry, should I be caught out?
Original post by Arkasia
This sounds slightly bitter, and is awful advice for life/anything. Cheating is cheating, regardless of what other people do. If you get caught, they won't give you a free pass because 'wahh, public school kids get more help than me'.


I don't deny that cheating is cheating, but OP was asking whether or not it'd be ethically wrong. In my opinion, it's not ethically wrong.
No, you shouldn't lie. It's wrong!
Original post by Jenaid
If I did do it and did get caught, what would the consequence be? Would I still be able to reapply the year after, or would I be banned from applying to any university through UCAS? Alternatively, would I still be able to apply to universities abroad to do dentistry, should I be caught out?


The consequence would be that your place would be withdrawn, and that could still happen at any stage of your period of study if you were discovered after you had started on the course, right up to the point of graduation.

I don't think you would be prevented from applying abroad but it seems rather drastic.

It's entirely up to you if you want to do this. If your new college is prepared to lie for you, then you probably have nothing to fear, but I would not make any decision before having an honest and frank discussion with the head of sixth and explaining your concerns about this, pointing out that you would be making a false declaration if you did not declare all results on your application. This willingness to bends the rules doesn't cast the college in a very pleasant light, I must say, and I would ensure that if you take the course of action the head of sixth is advocating, you make sure you have spoken in person with the head of the whole school and obtained his/her agreement. The head is responsible for certifying that the applications made in the name of his/her school are truthful, and the consequences for other candidates if Ucas decides that this school cannot be trusted may be more than s/he is prepared to risk.
Original post by Jenaid
Well as I said, there genuinely were extenuating circumstances that affected not only me, but my entire family which would be the 'explanation' as to why I hadn't completed my AS exams in the first year (having dropped out of college before exam season, hypothetically).

I'm not advocating this by the way and I was shocked to hear it from a head of 6th, but my thinking is if they're suggesting I do that, then it must be a fairly common occurence without severe consequence, otherwise they wouldn't risk it themselves as an instituion.


well if there are genuine extenuating circumstances wouldn't it be better to be tell the truth but explain what happened?
Original post by Jasaron
I don't deny that cheating is cheating, but OP was asking whether or not it'd be ethically wrong. In my opinion, it's not ethically wrong.


Fair point, but I reckon it would be, since my view of ethics is based on duty/set values, as opposed to relative based on what others do. Still, each to their own I guess?

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