Shadow Chancellor is Tory-lite!

But Corbyn hasn't said he will fund through borrowing...
He'll stop public sector cuts and invest certainly.
Miliband promised weak tory-lite austerity, Corbyn isn't.

You've now done a complete 180, from arguing he's a looney lefty to arguing he's a tory-lite.


I know you're desperate for him to fail, more for your own ego than anything else, but making cast iron predictions now is beyond foolish.

Initially I didn't want Corbyn, I didn't think he could win, I thought it would be destroy the party.
Right now however, i'm convinced he can win. Absolutely he can and no small poll two weeks in is going to convince me otherwise.

Let's stop this pointless back and forth and see what happens in May, re-evaluate and then be in a clearer position to make predictions. I know you're keen to be a misery guts but just once, lighten up eh?

Oh God, it seems you literally aren't understanding the position. McDonnell, by supporting Osborne's fiscal charter, will not borrow to invest - even Miliband did that. Miliband said he would balance the current budget but would run a capital deficit to invest; McDonnell, like Osborne, will run surpluses in both the current and capital budget.

Personally, I'm delighted with Corbyn's selection. I just want some of his backers to be confronted by realism and data.

I'm delighted to and his supporters are the most realistic of the lot.
I'll discuss further and reevaluate my position after the May elections.
You don't think he can win, I'm certain he can.
No point going round in circles. Wait till May.

Sure, you think he will win, I don't. That's fine.

But that wasn't my original point. Do you agree with McDonnell's signing up to Osborne's fiscal charter, which is even more conservative than Miliband's policy?

I never said he will, I said he can.
I'm waiting to see him flesh out his exact proposals and policies.

I never said he will, I said he can.
I'm waiting to see him flesh out his exact proposals and policies.

"We will support the charter. We will support the charter on the basis we are going to want to balance the book, we do want to live within our means and we will tackle the deficit"

Those are his words. The charter means no current budget deficit, and it means no borrowing to invest. What do you think?

If he can propose a way to do that without making cuts to low and middle income earners and instead making those at the top pay their fare share then absolutely I think he can do it.
Borrowing is not the only way of raising capital.
You see again, you've done a complete 180, claiming he's now a tory-lite because it suits your anti-Corbyn agenda. The press did the same with Ed Miliband. Made out like he was a looney lefty and a tory lite depending on which line suited their current line of attack.

Unlike you, I've never claimed Corbyn was an extremist, I wouldn't support him if I felt he was. But rather his policies are far more mainstream, 'centrist' and realistic then the current ideological cuts of the tory party.

I haven't done a 180; it's Labour that have. Should I have expected that Corbyn's Labour Party would take a more conservative fiscal stance than Ed Miliband? It's a surprise to everyone. Given that McDonnell said a couple of weeks ago that the fiscal charter is mad and that Corbyn consistently talked about government-led growth, do you disagree that its they that have changed position?

I'm glad you agree that Corbyn is not an extremist and a 'threat to national security' but actually has very popular, mainstream and realistic policies.

It's what I've been saying all along.

x

I was under the impression that although McDonnell is supporting the fiscal charter he is not supporting the budget. Perhaps I'm wrong, I'm certainly no expert, but this certainly opposes your argument:

Labour would also stimulate economic growth by borrowing to invest in infrastructure projects, McDonnell said. “We will tackle the deficit but the dividing line between us and the Tories is how we tackle it. Our basic line is we are not allowing either middle or low earners or those on benefit to have to pay for the crisis. It is as simple as that.”

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/25/john-mcdonnell-labour-will-match-osborne-and-live-within-our-means

He may be going along with the deficit narrative but that's hardly Tory-lite.

Out of interest, how likely do think it is that the Government will clear the deficit by 2020?

Trump v Sanders would mean radically different politics and it may well be that. Trump miles ahead and Sanders catching Clinton fast. In America, like here, voters are fast abandoning the 'centre ground'.

But not many had actually seen him speak first hand without the biased media spin. He got positive reviews for PMQs and absolute rave reviews or his wonderful, straight talking, unspun interview on Marr this morning - even off the Blairties and the Daily Telegraph...
The more people who see him and realise he's a thoroughly decent, intelligent and strong individual the more they'll come round to him and stop viewing him as this 'threat to national security' rubbish that the tories and media are trying to portray him as.

It's his position on the military, Trident, NATO, Putin etc that make me uncomfortable. That's ignoring his ideas about renationalisation of energy, opening coal mines and so forth.

What policies of his are popular, apart from the nationalisation of the railways? Of course, you'd have to refer to polls, though they are clearly low in your favour given they've produced a -3 rating for Corbyn. People know what his policy positions are, and that's why he's unpopular. You must just accept objective fact.

But I ask you again, as this was my original point before you decided to go into one about the wonderful Mr Corbyn: do you agree with Mr McDonnell and his signing up to the Tories' fiscal charter?

He seems to be compromising on his good economic policies and keeping his ludicrous foreign ones.

You're mistaking sensationalist newspaper headlines with actual policies...
It is not official policy to leave nato,

Polls had been showing consistently that the Tories were more trusted on the Economy.



I know he's an idiot, but Trump seems to be a pretty moderate Republican candidate.






There's some cognitive dissonance going on there....

I seriously have no idea how many times this has to be said for people to accept it.

It seems like every single day I see a newspaper come out saying Corbyn wants the UK to leave NATO. Both Corbyn and McDonnell have come out and said categorically that this will not happen.

I get the impression that the media are running with the tactic of "say something enough times and people will eventually start to believe it".