Tories get egged and spat on by protesters at conference

No actually you did say the left are all violent, aggressive and hate filled and made out in no uncertain terms that the 4 people who were arrested are representative of that fact and the left.

You gave a list of isolated incidents which are more often than not carried out by anarchists rather than leftists. Violent scars are always condemned by the mainstream left.
I could point to all the violent acts carried out by the national front, the right wing group and make out that all the right are violent but that of course is not the case.

A few incidents from a few idiots do not in any way, shape or form represent the left, nor the right.

Tens of thousands protested- 4 were arrested , the police made a statement saying how the overwhelming majority protested peacefully yet you're still trying to make out that the left are violent.

And no, I don't wear a mask - I'm not an activist and I'm comfortably middle class, with two doctors as parents - so no I don't hate the wealthy or the middle classes.
Cheers.

Where pray tell did I say or imply that? You might as well go off and argue against yourself if you're going to put words in my mouth for me. You've misunderstood and I've clarified.
I gave a list of NUMEROUS incidents carried out by large mobs during mainstream left wing protests. They aren't isolated, they aren't one off and they aren't individuals. You've got your head in the sand, big time. The fact that you've got to bring up the National Front as a counter comparison to students, public sector workers and trade unionists shows how much you're scrapping the barrel. But since you mention NF, I'd love to hear when exactly they've done anything on par with the mardy left. Remember when they stormed Labour HQ in London? Or attacked a cafe because it serves expensive cereal? Or harassed and attacked politicians? Or swung from the Cenotaph and defaced war memorials? Oh wait…so essentially the mainstream left, ON AVERAGE, is more unruly than the extremist right?
Again, your class warfare rant against Zac Goldsmith suggests otherwise.

Reply 161

username878267

15

Original post by pol pot noodles

Where pray tell did I say or imply that? You might as well go off and argue against yourself if you're going to put words in my mouth for me. You've misunderstood and I've clarified.
I gave a list of NUMEROUS incidents carried out by large mobs during mainstream left wing protests. They aren't isolated, they aren't one off and they aren't individuals. You've got your head in the sand, big time. The fact that you've got to bring up the National Front as a counter comparison to students, public sector workers and trade unionists shows how much you're scrapping the barrel. But since you mention NF, I'd love to hear when exactly they've done anything on par with the mardy left. Remember when they stormed Labour HQ in London? Or attacked a cafe because it serves expensive cereal? Or harassed and attacked politicians? Or swung from the Cenotaph and defaced war memorials? Oh wait…so essentially the mainstream left, ON AVERAGE, is more unruly than the extremist right?
Again, your class warfare rant against Zac Goldsmith suggests otherwise.

Why shouldn't I Bring up the national front? If you're going to use left wing extremists to prove your point then I can use right wing extremists to prove mine. The nf used to intimidate and commit violent acts against thanks they disliked. How absurd would it be for me to try and attach that to the mainstream right? Very of course.

Quite often these attacks that you say are carried about by the 'left' are actually carried out by anarchists not lefties.

The left is no more violent than the right- your 'evidence' seems to be to bring up isolated incidents very often not carried out by lefties anyway. But even if they were I can equally bring up isolated acts of violence by those on the right.

And you made the 'prediction' that Tories would be beaten up in labour strongholds without any evidence of this happening ever not anything to even suggest it will happen. Especially when the police themselves came out and praised the overwhelming majority on the march.

The left are no more or less violent than the right. That's about it.

Reply 162

pol pot noodles

19

Original post by Bornblue

Why shouldn't I Bring up the national front? If you're going to use left wing extremists to prove your point then I can use right wing extremists to prove mine. The nf used to intimidate and commit violent acts against thanks they disliked. How absurd would it be for me to try and attach that to the mainstream right? Very of course.

Quite often these attacks that you say are carried about by the 'left' are actually carried out by anarchists not lefties.

The left is no more violent than the right- your 'evidence' seems to be to bring up isolated incidents very often not carried out by lefties anyway. But even if they were I can equally bring up isolated acts of violence by those on the right.

And you made the 'prediction' that Tories would be beaten up in labour strongholds without any evidence of this happening ever not anything to even suggest it will happen. Especially when the police themselves came out and praised the overwhelming majority on the march.

The left are no more or less violent than the right. That's about it.

I never said you shouldn't bring up the National Front. I'm asking what's your point? How do they prove anything? When have even they acted anything in the manner like the stuff I've mentioned?
Well that's convenient, it's all just the 'anarchists'?
I made my 'prediction' based on numerous incidents of Tories being attacked for being Tories by left-wing protesters. That's pretty much what my prediction entails. A Tory MP being attacked without provocation by students at Sussex Uni campus. Brighton and Uni campuses are left wing central. Ergo, that's a Tory activist being attacked in a left-wing stronghold because they were a Tory. Quite literally.
Like I said before, I never said everyone on the march was violent or that all left-wing people are violent. Stopped getting hung up over that and trying to refute something I've never said. However when more of the left riot than the right, in larger numbers and cause more damage, it's quite reasonable to say that the left are more violent.

Reply 163

ElephantMemory

8

This nonsense still going? This has nothing to do with left and right wing. This is about the oppressed and the oppressors. You should NEVER expect the oppressed to be peaceful. You treat a group of people like **** then expect them to do something about it. Peaceful protests are pointless nonsense for people who are bored. A real protest is messy.

People have no idea how much power they hold in this country. A peaceful protest is not the best way to exercise that power.

Reply 164

username878267

15

Original post by pol pot noodles

I never said you shouldn't bring up the National Front. I'm asking what's your point? How do they prove anything? When have even they acted anything in the manner like the stuff I've mentioned?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2592921/Riot-police-called-violent-clashes-break-France-far-right-National-Front-win-dramatic-gains-local-elections.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/13/newsid_2534000/2534035.stm

- The National Front carrying out acts of violence.
You seem to be suggesting that a few idiots on the extreme left carrying out acts of violence means the left is violent - well those on the right also carry out violence...

Well that's convenient, it's all just the 'anarchists'?

Quite often yes it has been shown to have been anarchists in black hoods. That's a fact.

I made my 'prediction' based on numerous incidents of Tories being attacked for being Tories by left-wing protesters. That's pretty much what my prediction entails. A Tory MP being attacked without provocation by students at Sussex Uni campus. Brighton and Uni campuses are left wing central. Ergo, that's a Tory activist being attacked in a left-wing stronghold because they were a Tory. Quite literally.

Again that is one isolated incident of a tory activist being beaten up - which is a disgrace but it is absolutely absurd to use that to base a prediction that this is mainstream. Again it would be like me saying I can imagine all left wingers are beaten up by tories because of the Galloway incident.

It is utterly absurd to make a sweeping prediction like that base off one incident of a tory activist being beaten up.

Like I said before, I never said everyone on the march was violent or that all left-wing people are violent. Stopped getting hung up over that and trying to refute something I've never said. However when more of the left riot than the right, in larger numbers and cause more damage, it's quite reasonable to say that the left are more violent.

Well obviously the left protest more than the right and at protests you always get a few nutters. The left is no more violent than the right.

But why are you focusing on the actions of 4 people, rather than the other tens of thousands who protested perfectly peacefully?

Reply 165

pol pot noodles

19

Original post by Bornblue

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2592921/Riot-police-called-violent-clashes-break-France-far-right-National-Front-win-dramatic-gains-local-elections.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/13/newsid_2534000/2534035.stm

- The National Front carrying out acts of violence.
You seem to be suggesting that a few idiots on the extreme left carrying out acts of violence means the left is violent - well those on the right also carry out violence...

Quite often yes it has been shown to have been anarchists in black hoods. That's a fact.

Again that is one isolated incident of a tory activist being beaten up - which is a disgrace but it is absolutely absurd to use that to base a prediction that this is mainstream. Again it would be like me saying I can imagine all left wingers are beaten up by tories because of the Galloway incident.

It is utterly absurd to make a sweeping prediction like that base off one incident of a tory activist being beaten up.

Well obviously the left protest more than the right and at protests you always get a few nutters. The left is no more violent than the right.

But why are you focusing on the actions of 4 people, rather than the other tens of thousands who protested perfectly peacefully?

Christ, are you actually scrapping the barrel to such an extent that you have to refer to events that either happened 38 years ago or in another country?!!! (Not even mentioning the NF incident in 1977 was a brawl between NF and Socialists, so actually is still the left getting violent)

It's not one isolated incident. I've listed numerous incidents. You're comparing one guy getting attacked by one person to a guy getting attacked by an entire mob? You're comparing a brawl between right-wing and left-wing extremists to incidents where left-wing activists riot and go on an unprovoked rampage?

Because this isn't a thread discussing the majority of the protest that was peaceful. It was a thread discussing those that weren't, which unfortunately is a very common occurrence at mainstream left-wing demonstrations. Just to clarify for the last time, I've never said and am not saying that ALL left-wing people are violent and aggressive. What I am saying is that the left is more violent than the right. The fact that you have to refer to foreign events or something that happened before I presume either of us were born, or one single individual jumping George Galloway, where as I can list off numerous incidents that happened since the Tories came to office in 2010, that happened in Britain, involving large mobs of left-wing activists, says it all really.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 166

Gigabit

14

Original post by ByEeek

...have you noticed that people sleeping on the streets now is quite common compared to 5 - 8 years ago?

There are less homeless people around in my experience.

Reply 167

Tishy

8

Original post by pol pot noodles

It's not anecdotal. These aren't my personal stories about incidents. It's observation based on documented factual events.

You're confusing anacedotal evidence with personal experience. Yes, what you provided is anecdotal evidence, it's a single, "real life" example. "Observation based on a documented event" is not empirical evidence.

Like I said, back up your bold statements with research. There's a lot out there comparing traits between typical Tory voters and Labour voters.

Reply 168

pol pot noodles

19

Original post by Tishy

You're confusing anacedotal evidence with personal experience. Yes, what you provided is anecdotal evidence, it's a single, "real life" example. "Observation based on a documented event" is not empirical evidence.

Like I said, back up your bold statements with research. There's a lot out there comparing traits between typical Tory voters and Labour voters.

An anecdote is a story about an incident. Information acquired by observation is empirical. Me saying 'So and so happened at the demonstration' is an anecdote. Me saying 'Based on numerous relevant incidents listed I conclude the left is more aggressive and violent' is not an anecdote.

Reply 169

username1799249

19

Original post by AlecRobertson

There are less homeless people around in my experience.

It is just a shame your experience doesn't tally with reality. The data isn't hard to find. Failing that take a walk from Picadilly station in Manchester to town and the harsh realities of austerity are there for all to see.

Reply 170

The_Mighty_Bush

3

Original post by Tishy

You're confusing anacedotal evidence with personal experience. Yes, what you provided is anecdotal evidence, it's a single, "real life" example. "Observation based on a documented event" is not empirical evidence.

Like I said, back up your bold statements with research. There's a lot out there comparing traits between typical Tory voters and Labour voters.

Studies on traits of Tory and Labour voters is not going to tell you who is more likely to be commit acts of political violence or who is more likely to riot. Plus they weren't even talking about Tory or Labour voters but the left vs. the right in general in this regard.

It is pretty clear from observation that leftists are more likely to be violent or to riot etc. Now this may just be a result of the current climate where right wingers are treated worse by the law because we live in a left-wing society (see the example of the man in Spain who got life imprisonment for defending himself from a gang of armed communists) or because right wingers are perhaps more likely to have full-time employment and less likely to be engaging in constant political activity or protests.

Reply 171

chocolate hottie

1

Original post by ElephantMemory

This has nothing to do with left and right wing. This is about the oppressed and the oppressors. You should NEVER expect the oppressed to be peaceful.

Yeah right. The leaders of the mob who trashed that cafe in Shoreditch were lecturers at the LSE.

Anyway, you guys need to get real. Threatening a young girl with rape and gobbing on Michael Crick is hardly storming the Bastille...

Reply 172

Popsy1234

OP

8

Original post by chocolate hottie

Yeah right. The leaders of the mob who trashed that cafe in Shoreditch were lecturers at the LSE

Source?

Reply 173

chocolate hottie

1

Original post by Popsy1234

Source?

Google Lisa McKenzie.

Reply 174

ElephantMemory

8

Original post by chocolate hottie

Yeah right. The leaders of the mob who trashed that cafe in Shoreditch were lecturers at the LSE.

And...? That means nothing.

Reply 175

L i b

19

Original post by xxvine

Oh i agree

Ian Duncan Smith has to be one of the most heartless horrible politicians that have ever existed.

I don't understand why he is politics...its like he gets a kick out of people suffering. Can someone be so cold?

Um, quite the opposite. He has presided over a huge reduction in poverty, an absolute revolution in increasing employment. That's a great deal of achievement for the worst-off people in our society.

Reply 176

L i b

19

Original post by parentlurker

threaten people, put them in fear of their life and drive them into a corner where they see no other way out and they tend to fight back because you have left them no other option. You see other options for them, they don't. That is not a defense of violence in this situation but I do understand why people if fear of starvation react badly.

No-one at those protests was starving or otherwise suffering. They were political tribalists who make it their business to shout abuse at people. I suspect the poorest people in our country would be as revolted by them as the Conservative Party's members were.

Tories are under investigation for breaching human rights http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13635161.UN_launches_investigation_into__grave__violations_of_disabled_people_s_human_rights_over_welfare_reforms/

The Sunday Herald that you're referencing there is a comic strip. The UN are more than welcome to look at the UK's human rights record - indeed, I think they should. In the last three decades or so, the UK has been one of the most progressive forces in the world in terms of the rights of the disabled and other minority groups.

so their response is to try and abolish human rights.

Um, no it isn't. That's quite simply not happening and if you think it is, I suggest you get out of your social media bubble and actually read up a bit about the Government's proposals in this area.

Reply 177

Gigabit

14

Original post by ByEeek

It is just a shame your experience doesn't tally with reality. The data isn't hard to find. Failing that take a walk from Picadilly station in Manchester to town and the harsh realities of austerity are there for all to see.

Your evidence is anecdotal at best, as you admit.

Reply 178

username1799249

19

Original post by AlecRobertson

Your evidence is anecdotal at best, as you admit.

You are absolutely right. Here is an anecdotal survey created by my imaginary friend.

http://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/rough-sleeping/rough-sleeping-explore-data

Here is an anecdotal news article based on anecdotal evidence

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/number-homeless-people-stockport-triples-10179247

Feel free to dismiss it outright.

Interesting that even the Conservative leader must have noticed the odd sleeping bag on the street near where he lives because he seemed to talk about helping the poorest in society a lot in his speech yesterday. Perhaps he is delusional as well?