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Want to apply for Oxbridge for Law. However, my GCSE's may hold me back.

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Reply 20
Original post by J.SMART
They aren't technically more important in terms of getting into university. But they should be. having high grades in essay subjects at GCSE should be taken into account over your grades in none-essay based subjects if you are applying for such a degree and vice-versa.


Nope. Scientific skills are useful too.

The unis will have already analysed GCSEs against specific Degree performance and if they found a significant correlation they would have reflected that in their requirements.

And if they haven't done that analysis, then there's a PhD thesis right there for you :smile:
Original post by Little Toy Gun
And where is this published information claimed? That Oxford does not ask for UMS is at best only circumstantial evidence.

Why should I or anyone trust you when you still have yet to provide any evidence to back your claim up? Note that being around for a long time on TSR is not a plus, but rather a minus in this case; and having graduated from Cambridge is irrelevant unless you are an admission tutor at Oxford.


That Oxford do not ask for UMS is factual. For Cambridge you fill out a form called the SAQ where you have to list every module you have taken with the individual UMS for each sitting. Oxford do not have a similar form. Until very recently UCAS only allowed you to enter the grade of your AS modules not the UMS. Oxford would only know your UMS if you put them in your reference.
http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses/entrance-requirements
"Oxford University does not require its candidates to disclose information on unit grades"
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/Guide_to_UMS_averages_when_applying_to_Cambridge

Admissions research:
http://www.cao.cam.ac.uk/admissions-research
http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/news/special/20110406/multiple-regression-study.pdf

Also look at the ones titled:
School background is not a factor in Cambridge degree success
A Levels are a strong indicator of degree potential
A* at A Level as a Predictor of Tripos Performance: An initial analysis

One of the requirements to succeed at university is the ability to research and to learn from others. You will learn more if you take a little more time before you dismiss everybody else's knowledge as mere myth because you don;'t know it.
Original post by J.SMART
If every degree course ranked the GCSE subjects in order of relevance so that an A* in History and and A* in Biology are not equal when it comes to say...Politics or Medicine respectively.


Both Cambridge & Oxford have an admissions process which involves looking at every aspect of the candidates application including the interview, aptitude tests GCSE & A level performance. This is done by a human being, not a machine. You could not specify a ranking in a purely mechanistic way.
The medicine student might have an A in Biology GCSE but has subsequently gone on to get an A* at A level. The GCSE becomes irrelevant. But because Medicine is regarded as having a humanities aspect and essay writing remains important the A* in History is relevant over a B. But if their fourth AS was 95% in English this might be less so.
If you take my subject Economics, Maths is much more important than English. But almost all students have taken Maths & FM at A2 so the maths GCSE has been superseded. However some apply with only Maths and science A levels so the English/History GCSE grades become important.

As a general rule the most important subjects for a degree have been taken at AS. It is the less directly related subjects or the "missing ones" where the GCSE becomes important.
Original post by Colmans
That Oxford do not ask for UMS is factual. For Cambridge you fill out a form called the SAQ where you have to list every module you have taken with the individual UMS for each sitting. Oxford do not have a similar form. Until very recently UCAS only allowed you to enter the grade of your AS modules not the UMS. Oxford would only know your UMS if you put them in your reference.
http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses/entrance-requirements
"Oxford University does not require its candidates to disclose information on unit grades"
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/Guide_to_UMS_averages_when_applying_to_Cambridge

Admissions research:
http://www.cao.cam.ac.uk/admissions-research
http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/news/special/20110406/multiple-regression-study.pdf

Also look at the ones titled:
School background is not a factor in Cambridge degree success
A Levels are a strong indicator of degree potential
A* at A Level as a Predictor of Tripos Performance: An initial analysis

One of the requirements to succeed at university is the ability to research and to learn from others. You will learn more if you take a little more time before you dismiss everybody else's knowledge as mere myth because you don;'t know it.


Is it because you cannot provide evidence that Oxford weights GCSEs more you're providing evidence that is talking about other things? I already told you not asking for UMS is only circumstantial evidence. Even in the Oxford link you posted it clearly said improvement from GCSEs is one of the things tutors focus on, which seems to be an evidence for 'Oxford sees GCSEs so seriously if you don't have good GCSEs you shouldn't apply' being a myth, if anything.

The burden of proof sir who claims something out of nothing.

You can take your condescending tone elsewhere if you cannot do the simple task of getting evidence to back your claim up. This is without mentioning the mere fact that you're not the only person who's graduated from Oxbridge between the two of us.

I will wait.
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 24
Original post by Colmans
Both Cambridge & Oxford have an admissions process which involves looking at every aspect of the candidates application including the interview, aptitude tests GCSE & A level performance. This is done by a human being, not a machine. You could not specify a ranking in a purely mechanistic way.
The medicine student might have an A in Biology GCSE but has subsequently gone on to get an A* at A level. The GCSE becomes irrelevant. But because Medicine is regarded as having a humanities aspect and essay writing remains important the A* in History is relevant over a B. But if their fourth AS was 95% in English this might be less so.
If you take my subject Economics, Maths is much more important than English. But almost all students have taken Maths & FM at A2 so the maths GCSE has been superseded. However some apply with only Maths and science A levels so the English/History GCSE grades become important.

As a general rule the most important subjects for a degree have been taken at AS. It is the less directly related subjects or the "missing ones" where the GCSE becomes important.


Whether you even get an interview is often dependent on your GCSEs though, so there is often not a chance to put those grades into context or carry out much of this analysis you mention.
Original post by J.SMART
Whether you even get an interview is often dependent on your GCSEs though, so there is often not a chance to put those grades into context or carry out much of this analysis you mention.


Oxford and Cambridge look at your entire paper application when deciding who to call for interview.
http://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/applying/decisions/admissions-policy

Oxford have the benefit of your tests, submitted written work and consider your paper application before deciding who to interview:
http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses/entrance-requirements

"..tutors will look at your GCSEs in the context of the overall performance of the school or college where you studied so if, for example, you didn’t get all A* and A grades, but your results were among the best in your year group, that will be taken into account. Tutors will also consider your achieved or predicted grades at A-level (or other equivalent qualifications), your personal statement, academic reference, and any written work or written tests required for your course. If your application is shortlisted your performance at interview will also be taken in to account."
Original post by Little Toy Gun
Is it because you cannot provide evidence that Oxford weights GCSEs more you're providing evidence that is talking about other things? I already told you not asking for UMS is only circumstantial evidence. Even in the Oxford link you posted it clearly said improvement from GCSEs is one of the things tutors focus on, which seems to be an evidence for 'Oxford sees GCSEs so seriously if you don't have good GCSEs you shouldn't apply' being a myth, if anything.

The burden of proof sir who claims something out of nothing.

You can take your condescending tone elsewhere if you cannot do the simple task of getting evidence to back your claim up. This is without mentioning the mere fact that you're not the only person who's graduated from Oxbridge between the two of us.

I will wait.


Tone is in the ear of the beholder I think.
I'm not sure you have provided any proof for your assertions.
Given the speed of your response I doubt if you have read many of the links I posted.

It is self evident that an admissions process which doesn't use UMS, taken at the point before A2 has completed will put more weight on GCSE as this is usually the only public exam record. Cambridge used to have contextual scoring for GCSEs but its research showed that this added little to the predictive value of UMS. So since Cambridge have clearly stated that they don't regard GCSE as very important it is reasonable to say they regard them as less important.

I don't need to convince you & since you are not a potential applicant I don't think there is much point continuing the debate.
Reply 27
Original post by Colmans
I don't need to convince you & since you are not a potential applicant I don't think there is much point continuing the debate.


I think the issue is not the contention that you need UMS for Cambridge, it's that you "need" an immaculate GCSE performance for Oxford. Having tracked a number of Oxford threads it does seem this is a myth, for most courses anyway.

Posted from TSR Mobile
(edited 8 years ago)
iPad edit problem
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Colmans
I am only responding to his question "Where is the evidence to the TSR myth that Oxford puts more weight on GCSEs?" The more is by comparison with Cambridge.
But I don't think he is interested in the answer so I'm done.
Reply 30
[QUOTE="Colmans;59950119"]
Original post by Colmans
I am only responding to his question "Where is the evidence to the TSR myth that Oxford puts more weight on GCSEs?" The more is by comparison with Cambridge.
But I don't think he is interested in the answer so I'm done.


But that's the thing, Oxford places more emphasis on their Admissions Tests than GCSEs. People with relatively "average" GCSEs but good Tests get interviews.

Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Colmans
I'm not sure you have provided any proof for your assertions.


You are the one claiming that the myth is true. You're claiming something out of nothing.

Original post by Colmans
Given the speed of your response I doubt if you have read many of the links I posted.


And was I wrong in saying none of those links say anything about Oxford focusing on GCSEs themselves in a way which disadvantages applicants with poor GCSE results but good a-level results?

Original post by Colmans
It is self evident that an admissions process which doesn't use UMS, taken at the point before A2 has completed will put more weight on GCSE as this is usually the only public exam record. Cambridge used to have contextual scoring for GCSEs but its research showed that this added little to the predictive value of UMS. So since Cambridge have clearly stated that they don't regard GCSE as very important it is reasonable to say they regard them as less important.


From what Oxford said in your link, they appreciate the improvement between GCSE grades and post-GCSE results. This means people with poor GCSEs but good AS could benefit from it. It is not at all clear whether people with poor GCSE results but good post-GCSE results should avoid applying to Oxford.

Original post by Colmans
I don't need to convince you & since you are not a potential applicant I don't think there is much point continuing the debate.


Ha. You said published information have pointed out that it's not a myth. You cannot find any evidence. Then you give up and leave it as '...but it just is because I say so! I'm a Cambridge graduate I know everything everyone must trust me on everything!'
Original post by NOP97
Looking for advice.

I was only able to manage an A*AAAAABBB at GCSE, and when compared to those getting 11 A*'s, it's quite daunting.

For AS, I received AAAA and my predicted grades are A*A*A.

In terms of AS UMS, for two of my subjects, I got over 90%, but for the other two (one of which I dropped) I received around 84% UMS at AS.

Is it worth applying to either Cambridge or Oxford, and if so, which one would be more advisable?

It may be important to note that i've only considered Oxford up until now, as it's the only Uni I have visited out of the two. For law, the LNAT is required, but this is not so for Cambridge. In terms of law for Cambridge, what do I need to do in the application process before I send off my UCAS on the 15th of October?

Thanks

E; Doing Politics, Philosophy, History at A2.


I know this is a little late but your UMS seem just about (borderline) good enough to give you a fair shot at Cambridge, given that it's your top 3 subjects that count. You have better GCSEs than I had (well, I had 2A*s, but only 2 As), and I got in.

GCSEs are taken into account but the process is holistic. If you have 90s UMS it will more likely come down to interview performance, written work, etc.
Reply 33
Original post by TimmonaPortella
I know this is a little late but your UMS seem just about (borderline) good enough to give you a fair shot at Cambridge, given that it's your top 3 subjects that count. You have better GCSEs than I had (well, I had 2A*s, but only 2 As), and I got in.

GCSEs are taken into account but the process is holistic. If you have 90s UMS it will more likely come down to interview performance, written work, etc.


Thanks. I've gone ahead and applied to Cambridge,
Original post by NOP97
Thanks. I've gone ahead and applied to Cambridge,


Good luck!

If you need any guidance on the law admissions process feel free to PM me.

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