Depression - educate me.
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I totally agree with you over sadness and depression, sadness is a short lived emotion it rarely affects a persons health/daily life. I feel sad sometimes because I can't always see my friends or because something sad is on the telly.
However Depresion has more long term and affects everything about my life, lack of interest in activities I once enjoyed, my sleep varies from night to night, I have no energy, no concentration, things don't seem interesting as the was before, I don't give a monkeys about the latest strictly. Then that affects my health, looking for work, daily activities and I hate myself more and more.
My emotions are very limited or none, I tend to consciously put on a happy face like in the same way as make up.
Then without realising I'm hurting myself and next thinking horrible thoughts and next minute I don't care if I lived/died.
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However Depresion has more long term and affects everything about my life, lack of interest in activities I once enjoyed, my sleep varies from night to night, I have no energy, no concentration, things don't seem interesting as the was before, I don't give a monkeys about the latest strictly. Then that affects my health, looking for work, daily activities and I hate myself more and more.
My emotions are very limited or none, I tend to consciously put on a happy face like in the same way as make up.
Then without realising I'm hurting myself and next thinking horrible thoughts and next minute I don't care if I lived/died.
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Original post by TheCitizenAct
When someone breaks their leg the symptoms of that leg break exist in the physical realm. Symptoms of depression are subjective and in any given context, dependent upon omission, accentuation or presentation, could be identified in anyone. The diagnostic tools are meek at best. A bit like selling a house, all it requires is an effective presentation.
You made an enlightening post and a worthwhile contribution to the discussion earlier. However, what I didn't read was any conceptualisation of 'normality.'
A prolonged period of sadness, a 'mood'; why is this a disorder? Why is anyone in a position to determine what is and is not acceptable human behaviour (outside of the confines of inflicting bodily harm on another)? Perhaps it's a logical and accurate biological response to reality? Why is happiness in the face of sadness deemed 'not depressed'? Surely that's more of a disorder than prolonged sadness in the face of sadness?
You made an enlightening post and a worthwhile contribution to the discussion earlier. However, what I didn't read was any conceptualisation of 'normality.'
A prolonged period of sadness, a 'mood'; why is this a disorder? Why is anyone in a position to determine what is and is not acceptable human behaviour (outside of the confines of inflicting bodily harm on another)? Perhaps it's a logical and accurate biological response to reality? Why is happiness in the face of sadness deemed 'not depressed'? Surely that's more of a disorder than prolonged sadness in the face of sadness?
I dunno mate. Your first point can probably be disproved, in that depression does physically exist in the same way a broken leg does, as neurotransmitter levels can be measured using fMRI, as well as any brain abnormalities which may be causing it (x-ray, CT, MRI).
As to your other point - one is functional (happiness, lack of sadness, etc.) and one is not functional (anhedonia, chronic unhappiness, etc.). It's not about what is 'acceptable', but what is detrimental to the individual.
It's the same as having a broken or paralysed. You can't say that the baseline should be the infirm arm, or that it isn't detrimental to have said arm. Cognition and behavior is arbitrary to a degree, but not to the extent you're suggesting.
[QUOTE=Pathway;59882021]He's also mentally ill and his thinking is compromised as a result. Hence, massive decisions, like taking one's life, are seen as irrational and therefore should be prevented. If someone broke their leg and wanted to have it amputated would that be rational? Would you follow what that person said? No? Then it's the same for someone who is suicidal due to depression.
Very well said.
Extreme pain and emotion can lead to irrational choices. When a person isn't in the right frame of mind to make a drastic decision, it's perfectly acceptable to intervene.
To have an understanding of what depression feels like, you have to experience it, not that I'd wish it upon anyone.
You can study it all you like but you won't grasp it properly unless it's happened to you or a close friend.
Someone once said that during depression you're both the prisoner and the jailer; nothing could be more true.
Very well said.
Extreme pain and emotion can lead to irrational choices. When a person isn't in the right frame of mind to make a drastic decision, it's perfectly acceptable to intervene.
To have an understanding of what depression feels like, you have to experience it, not that I'd wish it upon anyone.
You can study it all you like but you won't grasp it properly unless it's happened to you or a close friend.
Someone once said that during depression you're both the prisoner and the jailer; nothing could be more true.
Original post by blue n white army
x
There are people who are crippled by clinical depression and these people do need medical help. But more often than not, being in a state of mild depression is a normal part of life: it is the appropriate emotional response to a bad or difficult situation, rather than an illness. Some people prefer to cry illness rather than face the changes they need to make to live a more authentic life, or go through a normal grief process that everyone has to go through.
I'm pretty sure your statistic is wrong, it's not that 1 in 4 people have depression right here right now. It's that 1 in 4 people will suffer from depression at someone point in their life. (Though I think it's actually 1 in 6).
You also have to understand that there are different types of depression. You can't lump them all together and say A doesn't have real depression because A doesn't feel exactly the same as B.
You also have to understand that there are different types of depression. You can't lump them all together and say A doesn't have real depression because A doesn't feel exactly the same as B.
Original post by hellodave5
It may seem like an objective choice to the individual (unfortunately sometimes is (it seems), in the case of Schizophrenia who have depression and momentarily symptoms improve); but usually in depression the individual is compromised (as far as I know) in that they are primed to make a decision which in a different state of mind (determined by neurotransmitter balance), they would most likely not choose to make.
It may seem like an objective choice to the individual (unfortunately sometimes is (it seems), in the case of Schizophrenia who have depression and momentarily symptoms improve); but usually in depression the individual is compromised (as far as I know) in that they are primed to make a decision which in a different state of mind (determined by neurotransmitter balance), they would most likely not choose to make.
Which is all predicated on in-group and out-group mechanics, in as much as certain emotions are permissible and of benefit, whereas other emotions are demonised and deemed surplus to requirements.
We are working within the confines of 'good' and 'bad', in as much as 'sadness' is a negative trait, and 'happiness' is a positive trait. Yet, objectively, many great outcomes emanate from sadness. Mozart, for example. Some of the world's great works of art; some of the world's greatest principles, ideas and ideologies. In these contexts, a 'prolonged period of sadness' was beneficial, not detrimental.
It frustrates me that 'sadness', much like self-interest, is treated as surplus to requirements, or tantamount to a 'disorder', when it's often a rational biological response to an individual's external environment. Life isn't about maximising happiness, it's about minimising misery - medication seems like the ultimate cop out in the pursuit of an imagined, borderline pathological, happiness.
Original post by hellodave5
The clinical diagnosis of depression would only be if that person has significant problems in their life due to their unhappiness - which is always a reasonably fair quantification of disease. On the other hand, with regards to your line of thought here - I think your position may be applicable to some 'personality disorders' in which life may be overmedicalised - but this I find is still difficult... as these have a basis in highly detrimental developmental processes.
The clinical diagnosis of depression would only be if that person has significant problems in their life due to their unhappiness - which is always a reasonably fair quantification of disease. On the other hand, with regards to your line of thought here - I think your position may be applicable to some 'personality disorders' in which life may be overmedicalised - but this I find is still difficult... as these have a basis in highly detrimental developmental processes.
All of which, in my opinion, is subjective. Diagnostically, a clinician will observe for an expression of these symptoms, but, in reality, anyone could walk in off the street and present these symptoms as their reality, and gain access to medication.
If I enter into a 'prolonged period of sadness', what is to suggest that isn't a rational response to my external environment? Surely, if it's a rational response, it's not a disorder?
If this is to be categorised as a 'disorder', surely its polar opposite, a prolonged period of happiness, must be, likewise, a disorder?
Original post by SnooFnoo
There are plenty of functional depressed people. Those who have become so used to acting that everything is fine when in public that people genuinely think they're happy and content, until that person goes home and their partners/parents see the real them. So no I don't classify someone with depression as someone who doesn't leave the house etc
This is completely true.
I have dysthymia, which is mild but long term (chronic) depression, which symptoms last for over 2 years.
I still get out of bed every day. I socialise a little bit, but not much. I can feel like **** for 2 months at a time and then feel okish for three or so weeks before I slip back into my miserable, cynical self. I am an expert at hiding my true feelings, wearing a facade, that when I finally admitted to some of my friends that I felt sad most days, an overwhelming sense of emptiness and hopelessness, they were surprised. But to me, feeling how I feel, it is normal. I live with it.
Original post by Airmed
This is completely true.
I have dysthymia, which is mild but long term (chronic) depression, which symptoms last for over 2 years.
I still get out of bed every day. I socialise a little bit, but not much. I can feel like **** for 2 months at a time and then feel okish for three or so weeks before I slip back into my miserable, cynical self. I am an expert at hiding my true feelings, wearing a facade, that when I finally admitted to some of my friends that I felt sad most days, an overwhelming sense of emptiness and hopelessness, they were surprised. But to me, feeling how I feel, it is normal. I live with it.
I have dysthymia, which is mild but long term (chronic) depression, which symptoms last for over 2 years.
I still get out of bed every day. I socialise a little bit, but not much. I can feel like **** for 2 months at a time and then feel okish for three or so weeks before I slip back into my miserable, cynical self. I am an expert at hiding my true feelings, wearing a facade, that when I finally admitted to some of my friends that I felt sad most days, an overwhelming sense of emptiness and hopelessness, they were surprised. But to me, feeling how I feel, it is normal. I live with it.
Me too. I've been this way for the past 9 years. Still got my degree still have a social life, I deserve an Oscar for my acting. When I get home I'm a wreck and weeks or weekends when I don't see people I do absolutely nothing I don't phayically feel like I can do anything it's horrible.
[QUOTE=a noble chance;59882839]This sort of stupid comment is why people with mental illnesses are still afraid to talk about their struggles and seek help.
...Excuse me? Care to elaborate?
...Excuse me? Care to elaborate?
Original post by JD1lla
There are quite a lot of people here that have experience with depression.
Those who had clinical depression, how DID you overcome this terrible state of being?
Those who had clinical depression, how DID you overcome this terrible state of being?
From my experience of it (past 9 years) it's more about managing it, very few people get "cured". Most people who start on antidepressants are on them for the long term-to life (mostly at low doses) in combo with talking therapy to stop relapses occurring.
Original post by AbsoluteAnarchy
...Excuse me? Care to elaborate?
by saying "only truly depressed people keep it to themselves" encourages those with feelings of depression from not talking about it. Your comment is damaging to those working up the courage to get help.
Original post by SnooFnoo
Me too. I've been this way for the past 9 years. Still got my degree still have a social life, I deserve an Oscar for my acting. When I get home I'm a wreck and weeks or weekends when I don't see people I do absolutely nothing I don't phayically feel like I can do anything it's horrible.
I've only been diagnosed since June (originally a depression diagnosis) but they reckon I have had it for most of my life. It just feels normal to me to feel like this. And yeah, that is me too. I have days where I don't speak a single word to anyone.
Original post by hellodave5
I dunno mate. Your first point can probably be disproved, in that depression does physically exist in the same way a broken leg does, as neurotransmitter levels can be measured using fMRI, as well as any brain abnormalities which may be causing it (x-ray, CT, MRI).
Not within the conventional process of giving a diagnosis of depression though, right? Correct me if I'm wrong, but this merely involves sitting with a Doctor, conveying your symptoms, and that Doctor making a very subjective observation of your symptoms.
Original post by hellodave5
As to your other point - one is functional (happiness, lack of sadness, etc.) and one is not functional (anhedonia, chronic unhappiness, etc.). It's not about what is 'acceptable', but what is detrimental to the individual.
As to your other point - one is functional (happiness, lack of sadness, etc.) and one is not functional (anhedonia, chronic unhappiness, etc.). It's not about what is 'acceptable', but what is detrimental to the individual.
I would dispute the notion that sadness, or prolonged sadness, isn't functional. See my post above. It has been pathologised (a bit like masculinity) by those with an interest in pathologising it, but that doesn't mean it's lacking in function. Altruism is coveted as an act of human kindness, however all throughout history the worst acts imaginable have been perpetrated upon appeals to altruism - I observe what I would deem to be 'pathological altruism' on a daily basis.
We cannot, in my view, confine human nature to 'good' and 'bad', functional or not.
(edited 8 years ago)
[QUOTE=SnooFnoo;59882951]by saying "only truly depressed people keep it to themselves" encourages those with feelings of depression from not talking about it. Your comment is damaging to those working up the courage to get help.
Ah. This is a simple misunderstanding.
I'm saying when we're depressed, we tend to keep it to ourselves; I'm not saying we should.
I've known many people who have suffered in this department; none of them "bragged" about it to get the wrong type of attention and for me, this shows sincerity in their feelings.
I wholeheartedly encourage the pursuit of help and the visiting of therapists etc. but for the right reasons.
I don't like it when people say they're depressed purely to garner sympathy, or when they post on social networking sites to get "likes" and such.
If you like, I can add this to my first post to resolve the situation? I didn't mean to cause harm; I worded things poorly...
Ah. This is a simple misunderstanding.
I'm saying when we're depressed, we tend to keep it to ourselves; I'm not saying we should.
I've known many people who have suffered in this department; none of them "bragged" about it to get the wrong type of attention and for me, this shows sincerity in their feelings.
I wholeheartedly encourage the pursuit of help and the visiting of therapists etc. but for the right reasons.
I don't like it when people say they're depressed purely to garner sympathy, or when they post on social networking sites to get "likes" and such.
If you like, I can add this to my first post to resolve the situation? I didn't mean to cause harm; I worded things poorly...
Original post by blue n white army
Couple of points before I start
i) Sorry if this is the wrong forum. I was going to put it in the mental health forum but thought that was more for people looking for advice
ii) This is no way meant to be an attack on people with depression, i believe it is a very serious condition.
I've always understood depression to be a crippling mental illness and i genuinely feel sorry for people who genuinely suffer from it. However 1 in 4 people allegedly have this illness and as it was world mental health day yesterday it appears that a lot of my facebook friends have it.
Now I've always been told that depression isn't just feeling a bit down and it's not something you can just snap out of. A lot of people I know of who have had depression have been through a rough patch where things might have not gone their way for a month or two and this made them a bit downbeat for a bit. They then come out and state that they've been battling with depression for the last couple of months. I've seen first hand in a friends mum how bad depression can be she didn't leave the house for months and months and isolated herself from pretty much everyone, didn't turn in for work etc etc.
My view is that actual depression and what people claim is depression are two very different things. The reason there is still a stigma attached to it is because every man and his dog claims to have it and then exaggerates their symptoms. A couple of friends yesterday (world mental health day) claimed that during their periods of depression they barely left the house but I remember very clearly them barely ever being at home and being out and about constantly.
One final thing I read somewhere. If a family member dies and you're still upset about it 2 weeks later you can be diagnosed with depression. That in my eyes is not depression, that is natural grief.
In conclusion, my view is that too man people claim to have depression when they might just be a little bit down. This in turn leads people to dismiss those who genuinely suffer with this illness and finally 1 in 4 people having depression seems ludicrously high.
As I said at the start i'm not trying to attack people with depression and I am more than willing to have my views changed.
i) Sorry if this is the wrong forum. I was going to put it in the mental health forum but thought that was more for people looking for advice
ii) This is no way meant to be an attack on people with depression, i believe it is a very serious condition.
I've always understood depression to be a crippling mental illness and i genuinely feel sorry for people who genuinely suffer from it. However 1 in 4 people allegedly have this illness and as it was world mental health day yesterday it appears that a lot of my facebook friends have it.
Now I've always been told that depression isn't just feeling a bit down and it's not something you can just snap out of. A lot of people I know of who have had depression have been through a rough patch where things might have not gone their way for a month or two and this made them a bit downbeat for a bit. They then come out and state that they've been battling with depression for the last couple of months. I've seen first hand in a friends mum how bad depression can be she didn't leave the house for months and months and isolated herself from pretty much everyone, didn't turn in for work etc etc.
My view is that actual depression and what people claim is depression are two very different things. The reason there is still a stigma attached to it is because every man and his dog claims to have it and then exaggerates their symptoms. A couple of friends yesterday (world mental health day) claimed that during their periods of depression they barely left the house but I remember very clearly them barely ever being at home and being out and about constantly.
One final thing I read somewhere. If a family member dies and you're still upset about it 2 weeks later you can be diagnosed with depression. That in my eyes is not depression, that is natural grief.
In conclusion, my view is that too man people claim to have depression when they might just be a little bit down. This in turn leads people to dismiss those who genuinely suffer with this illness and finally 1 in 4 people having depression seems ludicrously high.
As I said at the start i'm not trying to attack people with depression and I am more than willing to have my views changed.
I would say that I largely agree with that.
Due to the fact it's a mental health condition, it is subjective to diagnose, which is obviously going to muddy the waters.
I have no doubt that it is a real condition, but it is perhaps being over-diagnosed. But then it is difficult to say - high blood pressure is very common, yet people still get diagnosed with it, and that doesn't necessarily mean that the threshold is "too low".
Original post by AbsoluteAnarchy
Ah. This is a simple misunderstanding.
I'm saying when we're depressed, we tend to keep it to ourselves; I'm not saying we should.
I've known many people who have suffered in this department; none of them "bragged" about it to get the wrong type of attention and for me, this shows sincerity in their feelings.
I wholeheartedly encourage the pursuit of help and the visiting of therapists etc. but for the right reasons.
I don't like it when people say they're depressed purely to garner sympathy, or when they post on social networking sites to get "likes" and such.
If you like, I can add this to my first post to resolve the situation? I didn't mean to cause harm; I worded things poorly...
I'm saying when we're depressed, we tend to keep it to ourselves; I'm not saying we should.
I've known many people who have suffered in this department; none of them "bragged" about it to get the wrong type of attention and for me, this shows sincerity in their feelings.
I wholeheartedly encourage the pursuit of help and the visiting of therapists etc. but for the right reasons.
I don't like it when people say they're depressed purely to garner sympathy, or when they post on social networking sites to get "likes" and such.
If you like, I can add this to my first post to resolve the situation? I didn't mean to cause harm; I worded things poorly...
Fair enough :-)
[QUOTE=SnooFnoo;59883247]Fair enough :-)
I'm very very sorry. I'll add it right away... We're cool though, right?
I'm very very sorry. I'll add it right away... We're cool though, right?
Original post by JD1lla
There are quite a lot of people here that have experience with depression.
Those who had clinical depression, how DID you overcome this terrible state of being?
Those who had clinical depression, how DID you overcome this terrible state of being?
Medication
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