What to say to science students that keep insulting my degree?
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I don't see why people do this. We all have our own interests, strengths and talents to put to use. I'm a STEM student and I personally admire those who do other subjects as I feel I can learn a lot from them about stuff like economics, politics, psychology etc. I even go to events and societies to make sure I'm more rounded in my knowledge of the world rather than just in my subject. Of course I adore science but the world would be very boring if we were all STEM students.
Also there is a lot of snobbery within STEM itself. I'm a life sciences student and I get told that it inferior to the physical sciences. I used to be a Chemistry student and was told that that was inferior to physics, mathematics and engineering! And it just goes on and on...
If they have to pick bits in your subject they are probably insecure about their own status in this world. Do what makes you happy OP and forget other's opinions. Hugs
Also there is a lot of snobbery within STEM itself. I'm a life sciences student and I get told that it inferior to the physical sciences. I used to be a Chemistry student and was told that that was inferior to physics, mathematics and engineering! And it just goes on and on...
If they have to pick bits in your subject they are probably insecure about their own status in this world. Do what makes you happy OP and forget other's opinions. Hugs
Science grads never use their science and if they do are poorly paid, often more so than humanities and arts as they have been under the impression their degree is enough and haven't had the pressure (not to mention the free time) to do anything else.
Maths and engineering may have some cause to be snobbish. Vocational will get jobs unless they chose something dumb like law
Maths and engineering may have some cause to be snobbish. Vocational will get jobs unless they chose something dumb like law
Any non technical grad scheme. Easier to get a 2:1 too plus they will probably end up in management making you redundant in favour of machines 
People are more aware of problems for humanities students too so they sometimes get preferential treatment for example my uni has a consultancy project opportunity for humanities kids only
This is the way our system is set up because we choose our degree when we're a clueless 17 year old. In America say, they make it up as they go along so anyone wanting to study liberal arts will take some finance and stats and business on the side. Because you can't really do this over here job prospects are less related to what you studied and more related to extracurriculars
People are more aware of problems for humanities students too so they sometimes get preferential treatment for example my uni has a consultancy project opportunity for humanities kids only
This is the way our system is set up because we choose our degree when we're a clueless 17 year old. In America say, they make it up as they go along so anyone wanting to study liberal arts will take some finance and stats and business on the side. Because you can't really do this over here job prospects are less related to what you studied and more related to extracurriculars
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by scrotgrot
Any non technical grad scheme. Easier to get a 2:1 too plus they will probably end up in management making you redundant in favour of machines
People are more aware of problems for humanities students too so they sometimes get preferential treatment for example my uni has a consultancy project opportunity for humanities kids only
This is the way our system is set up because we choose our degree when we're a clueless 17 year old. In America say, they make it up as they go along so anyone wanting to study liberal arts will take some finance and stats and business on the side. Because you can't really do this over here job prospects are less related to what you studied and more related to extracurriculars
People are more aware of problems for humanities students too so they sometimes get preferential treatment for example my uni has a consultancy project opportunity for humanities kids only
This is the way our system is set up because we choose our degree when we're a clueless 17 year old. In America say, they make it up as they go along so anyone wanting to study liberal arts will take some finance and stats and business on the side. Because you can't really do this over here job prospects are less related to what you studied and more related to extracurriculars
I will assume by your tone of writing that you are a humanities student or graduate? We can also do any generic grad scheme, that's the point of a grad scheme. Science grads would probably be at an advantage in most however because of our mathematical skills especially when looking at financial skills. Further study for subjects such as medicine and dentistry also give preference to science grads in a lot of places. Humanities graduates and English degrees are two a penny, what would you actually learn that is useful? Maybe easier to get a 2:1 in but that devalues the degree because lots of English students will have 2:1's and thus the market is saturated with English graduates that don't have any useful skills really
Say "at least I have one."
I know how you feel. My father and my advisors talked me into going for a Computer Science degree instead of English literature, and I've hated every moment of it. The programming was fun, but I hated the Calculus and Physics. My grades in them are mediocre despite studying very hard. Which is keeping me out of better schools.
Now I have an Associate's Degree, but I also have a bad GPA because of all those Maths and Physics classes I barely passed, and even if I did want to change my major, those grades would count against me anywhere I transfer.
I'm realising that I might have been better off with a degree in English, because I would have enjoyed it more, and I'd probably have a Bachelor's Degree in something by now, given that it took me about 3 years to get a 2 year degree because I couldn't handle the Maths at the expected pace at all. Apparently a lot of jobs here in the US don't care what your degree is in, as long as you have a Bachelor's Degree. I wish I'd known that.
Now I have an Associate's Degree, but I also have a bad GPA because of all those Maths and Physics classes I barely passed, and even if I did want to change my major, those grades would count against me anywhere I transfer.
I'm realising that I might have been better off with a degree in English, because I would have enjoyed it more, and I'd probably have a Bachelor's Degree in something by now, given that it took me about 3 years to get a 2 year degree because I couldn't handle the Maths at the expected pace at all. Apparently a lot of jobs here in the US don't care what your degree is in, as long as you have a Bachelor's Degree. I wish I'd known that.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by scrotgrot
Science grads never use their science and if they do are poorly paid, often more so than humanities and arts as they have been under the impression their degree is enough and haven't had the pressure (not to mention the free time) to do anything else.
Maths and engineering may have some cause to be snobbish. Vocational will get jobs unless they chose something dumb like law
Maths and engineering may have some cause to be snobbish. Vocational will get jobs unless they chose something dumb like law
That depends really. You can make reasonable money in private sector research (relatively speaking), certainly more than in academia. Or you use your science in an industry that requires a knowledge fo your subject. Certain engineers/scientists in nuclear industry need to be physics graduates. "Do you know about neutrons and ****" as a careers guest speaker form the industry told us ^.^
There are grad schemes in those areas that start you on £29k at sellafield as I tried to get on a work placement year with them. I don't know about you but I would love to be on £29k straight out of uni...
(edited 8 years ago)
Numeracy not necessarily an advantage for management. Grad schemes that are quantitative usually do say numerate degrees preferred, so it's not just an unspoken preference operating everywhere. Plus you have less free time to do interesting leadership positions. And you are more lilely to be good at persuasion which is what business is all about really. I studied linguistics then accounting
I think really humanities vs science is much of a muchness in the non specialist job market
I think really humanities vs science is much of a muchness in the non specialist job market
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
That depends really. You can make reasonable money in private sector research (relatively speaking), certainly more than in academia. Or you use your science in an industry that requires a knowledge fo your subject. Certain engineers/scientists in nuclear industry need to be physics graduates. "Do you know about neutrons and ****" as a careers guest speaker form the industry told us ^.^
There are grad schemes in those areas that start you on £29k at sellafield as I tried to get on a work placement year with them. I don't know about you but I would love to be on £29k straight out of uni...
There are grad schemes in those areas that start you on £29k at sellafield as I tried to get on a work placement year with them. I don't know about you but I would love to be on £29k straight out of uni...
I guess. Most of the science people i know have gone on to PhD's this MSc's that as they (presumably) love doing actual lab work. I agree unlike English say there is a class of specialist jobs requiring technical knowledge and also some which demand a numerate degree. But for generalist grad schemes no advantage.
What is the progression/exit opps like? I have always got the impression that the problem with technical roles is often that you get pigeonholed as a techie and stuck doing the monkey work all your career
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Anonymous
Sorry for the essay! I study English Literature and want to be a writer and an English lecturer. I've wanted to be a published author for as long as I can remember, and a lecturer since I was in college. So you can see why I picked English at university. It's what I'm good at, it's what I enjoy, and it's the field I wish to go into.
Most of my friends at university are science students. I love my friends dearly and care a lot about them.
However, now, I'm in the second year. They are still making cheap shots at my degree. They say things like, "What's the point in doing English?", but only when there's a lot of them there. They wouldn't dare say it straight to my face, but when I'm in the room with two or more of them, they do. It's like they don't even consider my feelings.
It makes me feel really uncomfortable, because this is what I have always wanted to do, and it's costing me a lot of money. It's making me angry, too, because it's clear that they think their degrees are worth more than mine. And maybe they are. I don't know. But it's still hurtful to hear. I mean, on one level, the 'value' of my degree doesn't matter - if I know what I want to do and am certain that I'm doing what I need to to get where I want to be, what does its worth to others matter? In an ideal world, I would like my friends to totally change this idea they've got about it. However, at this point, all I want them to do is stop voicing their thoughts on it. And yes, maybe I'll "let them talk" or whatever, but it's still unpleasant to deal with. When I'm where I want to be, of course this will stop, but I'm not yet, and probably won't be until my mid to late twenties.
I once said something back - that they can criticise me as much as they want, but that they weren't doing well enough to get into the fields that they want to get into. They couldn't handle it, of course. I felt terrible saying it and don't want to fight fire with fire.
I honestly even get this from strangers on nights out. When I say that I want to write books and be an English lecturer, they seem to understand. I just don't get what else my friends think I should've done. I tell my friends time and time again what I want to do, and have told them a couple times to stop. That quiets them for a little while, but it always starts up again later. In this day and age, it's near-impossible to get a job as a lecturer without a degree.
Of course, it's not all science students. You will know if you're not one of the ones I'm talking about, so please don't turn this into a 'not all scientists' debate. I've got a few friends that are science students that are total babes about it all. But, sorry, I find that most of the time, it's science and maths students that say this to people that are reading basically any other subject. What gives? What should I say to them?
Most of my friends at university are science students. I love my friends dearly and care a lot about them.
However, now, I'm in the second year. They are still making cheap shots at my degree. They say things like, "What's the point in doing English?", but only when there's a lot of them there. They wouldn't dare say it straight to my face, but when I'm in the room with two or more of them, they do. It's like they don't even consider my feelings.
It makes me feel really uncomfortable, because this is what I have always wanted to do, and it's costing me a lot of money. It's making me angry, too, because it's clear that they think their degrees are worth more than mine. And maybe they are. I don't know. But it's still hurtful to hear. I mean, on one level, the 'value' of my degree doesn't matter - if I know what I want to do and am certain that I'm doing what I need to to get where I want to be, what does its worth to others matter? In an ideal world, I would like my friends to totally change this idea they've got about it. However, at this point, all I want them to do is stop voicing their thoughts on it. And yes, maybe I'll "let them talk" or whatever, but it's still unpleasant to deal with. When I'm where I want to be, of course this will stop, but I'm not yet, and probably won't be until my mid to late twenties.
I once said something back - that they can criticise me as much as they want, but that they weren't doing well enough to get into the fields that they want to get into. They couldn't handle it, of course. I felt terrible saying it and don't want to fight fire with fire.
I honestly even get this from strangers on nights out. When I say that I want to write books and be an English lecturer, they seem to understand. I just don't get what else my friends think I should've done. I tell my friends time and time again what I want to do, and have told them a couple times to stop. That quiets them for a little while, but it always starts up again later. In this day and age, it's near-impossible to get a job as a lecturer without a degree.
Of course, it's not all science students. You will know if you're not one of the ones I'm talking about, so please don't turn this into a 'not all scientists' debate. I've got a few friends that are science students that are total babes about it all. But, sorry, I find that most of the time, it's science and maths students that say this to people that are reading basically any other subject. What gives? What should I say to them?
I usually take the **** out of non-STEM subjects for banter. More specifically, anything non Maths, Physics, CompSci or Chemistry.
Obviously, those passionate about their subjects tend to react more and depending on the person depends on whether I push their buttons or stop
But honestly, knowledge is power; everything is interesting
pBesides, it's transferable skills and experience that differentiate people long-term
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Original post by Anonymous
Sorry for the essay!
Heehee,"sorry for the essay" pun intended eh. Listen, as a ripe 22 year old, my words of advice would be to not care what others think about your English degree, at least you are out there getting one. I wish I took this on board when I was younger, and I still need to remind myself. It's true that others are too busy with their own lives to judge you, even if they are your friends.
People will always have different opinions, as you are a prospective writer who will one day be published, critics will become an integral part of your career, heck once you qualify some will praise your writing as great, others will dismiss or berate it. One thing is for certain, you are chasing your dream and that is damn commendable, a lot of people wouldn't have the guts, including myself and I've always wanted to write.
Focus on yourself, your ambition, screw what the world thinks.
STEM degrees are far more specialized, thus less people have the skills and those who do can command greater wages. People can argue against it all they want but once you hit the professional job market if you haven't already, you'll see it play out. In the end do what makes you happiest, if you are career motivated then you made the right choice - ignore elitists. You know the funniest thing here that most people don't seem to realize is that in the vast majority of careers, your degree will become worthless in about 5 years. Everything is always replaced by something more important and the highest importance is usually placed on in field experience. Academic careers being one of the exceptions.
I don't even get asked to produce my STEM degree at interviews anymore, it's all about references and what I've done and if I can show them how good I am in a 60 minute interview.
I don't even get asked to produce my STEM degree at interviews anymore, it's all about references and what I've done and if I can show them how good I am in a 60 minute interview.
I think your friends have tunnel vision and are naive if they genuinely think your degree is useless. And that's coming from a STEM snob! 
(Only joking, I also studied art, I'm a hybrid snob).
I think once you've explained why you're studying your subject once, you don't have to explain yourself anymore. Well, that's what I would do anyway.
Are we talking just science or STEM as a whole? In my experience many employers tried to actively push me into managerial type roles. I resisted - I actually wanted to stay doing 'monkey work' (which I absolutely love, by the way). My STEM friends have gone on to do various things though: one started a business, several are now senior technical engineers, some project managers, some work in science communication (I once saw one of my old classmates on the telly sat next to Bill Nye!! wtf) and some like me moved laterally into other industries.
When I decided to switch careers my technical background has always attracted attention. I can't speak for other careers, but having had STEM experience seemed to make me extremely employable despite having zero experience in the new jobs I was switching to (although I am a bit of a career opportunist so it might just be me being very cheeky). Ironically I ended up working more recently in a very interesting animal welfare role alongside a girl with a strong degree in English lit (we were both teaching kids about animals and worked together to create lesson ideas).
(Only joking, I also studied art, I'm a hybrid snob).I think once you've explained why you're studying your subject once, you don't have to explain yourself anymore. Well, that's what I would do anyway.
Original post by scrotgrot
What is the progression/exit opps like? I have always got the impression that the problem with technical roles is often that you get pigeonholed as a techie and stuck doing the monkey work all your career
Are we talking just science or STEM as a whole? In my experience many employers tried to actively push me into managerial type roles. I resisted - I actually wanted to stay doing 'monkey work' (which I absolutely love, by the way). My STEM friends have gone on to do various things though: one started a business, several are now senior technical engineers, some project managers, some work in science communication (I once saw one of my old classmates on the telly sat next to Bill Nye!! wtf) and some like me moved laterally into other industries.
When I decided to switch careers my technical background has always attracted attention. I can't speak for other careers, but having had STEM experience seemed to make me extremely employable despite having zero experience in the new jobs I was switching to (although I am a bit of a career opportunist so it might just be me being very cheeky). Ironically I ended up working more recently in a very interesting animal welfare role alongside a girl with a strong degree in English lit (we were both teaching kids about animals and worked together to create lesson ideas).
(edited 8 years ago)
Ah yes, I quite agree the "STEM degrees are superior" rhetoric is not only boring, but also ridiculous. Unfortunately, our society has taught us to value such skills more highly than others and as a result you're always going to get those people who think they're better than people doing non-STEM degrees.
Quite honestly, a lot of STEM students taking the piss out of non-STEM degrees wouldn't be able to manage one themselves, just like not all non-STEM students wouldn't be able to complete a STEM degree. My point being that people have talents in different areas and they are all equally valuable.
I generally associate such remarks with a right wing mentality so if they'd like to think of themselves as left wing you could always attack them with the old "Tory" chants.
Quite honestly, a lot of STEM students taking the piss out of non-STEM degrees wouldn't be able to manage one themselves, just like not all non-STEM students wouldn't be able to complete a STEM degree. My point being that people have talents in different areas and they are all equally valuable.
I generally associate such remarks with a right wing mentality so if they'd like to think of themselves as left wing you could always attack them with the old "Tory" chants.
The vast majority of jobs are done by people who never studied for it in any capacity except for learning on the job. The degrees required for "graduate" jobs seem mostly required to fulfil some intelligence quota. (I think degrees are overrated in this respect, but that's by the by.) Many (maybe most?) accountants didn't study for an accounting degree, for example.
I studied English and I have a few friends who are English grads too. Among us is:
- an editor
- a buyer at Sunseeker
- an actuary
- an art history PhD (who worked in sponsorship at the Tate for a few years first)
- a civil servant
Basically, there are loads of things you can do, just as with most degrees.
I studied English and I have a few friends who are English grads too. Among us is:
- an editor
- a buyer at Sunseeker
- an actuary
- an art history PhD (who worked in sponsorship at the Tate for a few years first)
- a civil servant
Basically, there are loads of things you can do, just as with most degrees.
Original post by Jelkin
The vast majority of jobs are done by people who never studied for it in any capacity except for learning on the job. The degrees required for "graduate" jobs seem mostly required to fulfil some intelligence quota. (I think degrees are overrated in this respect, but that's by the by.) Many (maybe most?) accountants didn't study for an accounting degree, for example.
I studied English and I have a few friends who are English grads too. Among us is:
- an editor
- a buyer at Sunseeker
- an actuary
- an art history PhD (who worked in sponsorship at the Tate for a few years first)
- a civil servant
Basically, there are loads of things you can do, just as with most degrees.
I studied English and I have a few friends who are English grads too. Among us is:
- an editor
- a buyer at Sunseeker
- an actuary
- an art history PhD (who worked in sponsorship at the Tate for a few years first)
- a civil servant
Basically, there are loads of things you can do, just as with most degrees.
Did your friend who does Actuary do any further education or was it straight on the job training? Actuary from what I know involves a s*** ton of maths
I have a few friends like that, I just try to explain to them - if I don't like science, don't want a job in science, why would I do a science related degree? Doing a degree you aren't interested in just because a few people's bull**** elitism would be ridiculous. I'd just keep explaining this to them, and tell them you think it's out of order the way they are acting.
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